Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Fighting Tao wrote:

It doesnâ€™t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesnâ€™t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

I heard that myself.

I don't believe for a second that his advisors would let him talk to these victims without at least a basic knowledge of the laundries or mother and baby homes.

I don't believe for a second that the Vatican aren't aware of the claims of slave labour in the laundry. The claims of child trafficking to the highest bidder. The claims of up to 800 tiny babies bodies buried in a sewer.

I understand Ireland is a small country and the Vatican have their fingers in most countries but they are aware of these claims. Its an insult for the Pope to claim ignorance of these claims

mattser wrote: »

Of course they are. The fact that that it is running so smoothly must be causing them serious disturbance.

Oh I wish he would come every year so that Irish members of the Roman organisation can defend their inaction and blinkered views.

Irish Kings wrote:

What's stopping the Irish Church continuing to cover up their crimes if the current state authorities and politicians are not going to enforce the criminal justice system ? Why are we constantly being fed this lie that criminals are somehow going to be self policing ???

The main reason that the state hasn't gotten involved too much to date & the reasoning behind Michael Woods limiting the church payouts is because the state itself is partially to blame too.

The state was happy to let the church run the mother and babies homes, hospital, school industrial school etc. The church is like a pedophile. A pedophile works their way into the families lives. Into their homes. They make themselves irreplaceable. Church does the same thing with the state.

mattser

AdrianII wrote: »

147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

I'd have a good bet the OP and half the people on here are watching it on tv.

Of course they are. The fact that that it is running so smoothly must be causing them serious disturbance.

Annasopra

ricero wrote: »

All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

Wait and see? How long would you propose to do that?

Irish Kings

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Or for the church to stop covering up for them

What's stopping the Irish Church continuing to cover up their crimes if the current state authorities and politicians are not going to enforce the criminal justice system ? Why are we constantly being fed this lie that criminals are somehow going to be self policing ???

P_1

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

So it sounds like nothing will change due to an institution that is rotten to its core.

Sadly this is what we are dealing with here. I'm sure Frankie is lovely chap but he is surrounded by evil hippocrates who wield all the power. Until we get rid of them we may as well be pissing in the wind

FrancieBrady

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

So it sounds like nothing will change due to an institution that is rotten to its core.

Well it is now alleged that the pope was complicit in doing a bit of hamstringing himself.

Absolutely shocking if true. How can anyone waving flags today not feel totally betrayed and dirty if it is proven.

ricero wrote:

All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

Wait to see what? This pope has been proven to be a cover up merchant. We now have to wait for the next pope to see if he finds child sex abuse repulsive enough not to cover it up

AdrianII wrote:

147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

Or third option. Move on & Read a different thread if you don't like it.

Irish Kings wrote:

They've apologised a hundred times over the last 20 years., it's an apology every five minutes, but when are we actually going to see those responsible in the Church management held to account ?

Or for the church to stop covering up for them

Fighting Tao

ricero wrote: »

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

So it sounds like nothing will change due to an institution that is rotten to its core.

Irish Kings wrote: »

Exactly

And yet the state today continues to refuse to arrest, question, search and convict a single Irish bishop or former bishop, and the media fail to ever bring this up either.

Has the church given them the evidence yet?

AdrianII wrote: »

We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

An apology means absolutely nothing if it is not followed up with a change in behaviour.
The fact that Frank himself is directly implicated in a cover up just highlights the utter hipocracy within the RCC.

AdrianII wrote: »

147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

I'd have a good bet the OP and half the people on here are watching it on tv.

Oh dear. Are you selling blinkers too?

Actions Adrian Actions.

One simple action is for the pope to open the Vatican records for everyone to analyse the scale of church abuses and for people to understand the truth. Freedom of information for all those wronged by the church whether it be raped children or people illegally forced to stay in laundries or forced adoptions or whatever.

ricero wrote: »

All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

Wait and see? He had thr perfect opportunity to announce plans to reform the global RCC child protection measures along with global mandatory reporting of offenders, etc.
But he didn't and I don't believe that he will either.

Irish Kings

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Lets wait and see?????????
For how bloody long???????
Until the survivors are dead??????

The abuse has been happening for decades and is ongoing.
The cover-ups have been happening for decades and is ongoing.

Exactly

And yet the state today continues to refuse to arrest, question, search and convict a single Irish bishop or former bishop, and the media fail to ever bring this up either.

AdrianII

147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

I'd have a good bet the OP and half the people on here are watching it on tv.

ricero wrote: »

All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

Lets wait and see?????????
For how bloody long???????
Until the survivors are dead??????

The abuse has been happening for decades and is ongoing.
The cover-ups have been happening for decades and is ongoing.

Your response is cowardice.

Hopefully the tide will turn? Fcuking hell. How many lives need to be ruined or ended before the tide turns?

ricero

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So how many mealy mouth apologies with absolutely no follow up action does that make now?

All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

Irish Kings

ricero wrote: »

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

They've apologised a hundred times over the last 20 years., it's an apology every five minutes, but when are we actually going to see those responsible in the Church management held to account ?

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So there was abuse of seminarians and an altar boy but all Ratzinger did was to order him "to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance.”
More covering up the truth to avoid any scandal against the business.

I know, I am shocked that this is the church penalty for raping children.

Discodog

ricero wrote: »

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

He met 7 abuse victims, that's all & I bet they were very carefully chosen.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Does the news coming out of America, make you feel any differently about the man?

If it is true, do you feel completely conned? Because you should, any normal person would.

That is exactly the correct word. Conned.

ricero wrote: »

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

So how many mealy mouth apologies with absolutely no follow up action does that make now?

FrancieBrady

ricero wrote: »

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

Same question to you ricero, genuinely interested if it would have any effect on you?

Does the news coming out of America, make you feel any differently about the man?

If it is true, do you feel completely conned? Because you should, any normal person would.

ricero

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.