Would you give away 3 meters of road frontage to the community

kerryjack · 24-08-2018 09:17AM #1

A few of us have been asked to move back our fences to construct a cycle path along a fairly dangerous road. The council is not involved in this it is a community project and would benefit the community greatly. There is a few land owners holding out. What would you do.

Mooooo · 24-08-2018 09:18AM

Is it still yet ground after. If so insurance implications??

K.G. · 24-08-2018 09:24AM

Do you think this is the best option for the project.

24-08-2018 09:27AM

How will this actually work?, is it footpath outside my garden gate then cycle lane then road for cars, are there bollards separating each section.

What if you have a car to park in the garden drive?

893bet · 24-08-2018 09:27AM

Probably not realistically. Talk is cheap by those in the community that are pushing this agenda I would assume.

B-D-P-- · 24-08-2018 09:31AM

Have you analyised how much revenue the land is worth P/A?

Wildsurfer · 24-08-2018 10:18AM

10 feet wide for a bicycle?

lawred2 · 24-08-2018 10:20AM

Wildsurfer wrote: »

10 feet wide for a bicycle?

?

two lanes plus kerbing would easily be three metres?

freedominacup · 24-08-2018 10:22AM

kerryjack wrote: »

A few of us have been asked to move back our fences to construct a cycle path along a fairly dangerous road. The council is not involved in this it is a community project and would benefit the community greatly. There is a few land owners holding out. What would you do.

A dangerous stretch of road that I'd use and my family use? No problem. Just make sure the legalities are sorted out. Basically that council become fully responsible for it from the beginning of construction.

Dakota Dan · 24-08-2018 10:23AM

lawred2 wrote: »

?

two lanes plus kerbing would easily be three metres?

Two cycle lanes on the same side of the road, hardly.

Akrasia · 24-08-2018 10:24AM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Two cycle lanes on the same side of the road, hardly.

Why not? This happens all the time.

lawred2 · 24-08-2018 10:26AM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Two cycle lanes on the same side of the road, hardly.

other than city/town centres - where have you seen cycle lanes on either side of the road?

almost all cycle routes and greenways are bi directional..

lawred2 · 24-08-2018 10:27AM

as for the OP- If you are in a position to donate that space to the community then I'd do it in a heartbeat..

Just make sure that the council are involved and that the legals are sorted etc etc

kerryjack · 24-08-2018 10:57AM

We have been trying for years to get council ivolved but its not classified as dangerous yet some one has to get killed first this is rural village with a few holiday home's so you get a lot of kids cycling in and out of village it would be like the 3 meter strip outside most homes in the country that nobody knows who owns it but this would ne maintained by the guys in the local rural scheme., there is some grant money available for concrete post and rail and a beach hedge.the path would be gravel.

ganmo · 24-08-2018 11:27AM

is it the council don't want to be involved in the organising of the transfer ie the negotiation with yourself and the other landowners or do they not want to have to upkeep the finished product.

if its the first i'd say to the organisers that i'm willing once the council are doing the upkeep.

I've often wondered how it would work if councils started approaching land owners for tiny bits of ground that'd straighten out a bad bend or improve a sightline.

kerryjack · 24-08-2018 11:33AM

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Have you analyised how much revenue the land is worth P/A?

No giving it to community some people foeget about the 6 by 3 plot we are all going to end up in

Say my name · 24-08-2018 11:41AM

kerryjack wrote: »

No giving it to community some people foeget about the 6 by 3 plot we are all going to end up in

Now you have a solution.

A straight land swap. Get it in writing from the council.

wrangler · 24-08-2018 11:48AM

Say my name wrote: »

Now you have a solution.

A straight land swap. Get it in writing from the council.

We gave 100 mtrs by 3 mtr to the council years ago, neighbours weren't able to get a combine to their land down a narrow road, It was never tarmac'd just the ditch taken out and a post and rail fence

cute geoge · 24-08-2018 11:56AM

I have seen plenty of places where roads have being widened ,footpath etc and a cheap timber fence put up in place of the ditch being replaced .My neighbour owned the field where the council wanted to take a dangerous bend but would not give permission unless his ditch was replaced ,the council built up his ditch again and everyone was happy .Any other place the council took ditches it is replaced with timber railing that the farmer is responsible for the upkeep!!!

Victor · 24-08-2018 12:00PM

Wildsurfer wrote: »

10 feet wide for a bicycle?

Cycle lane in either direction, plus footpath - you don't want to mix toddlers and dogs with bikes - they'll obey a kerb, but not a white line.

893bet · 24-08-2018 02:14PM

kerryjack wrote: »

We have been trying for years to get council ivolved but its not classified as dangerous yet some one has to get killed first this is rural village with a few holiday home's so you get a lot of kids cycling in and out of village it would be like the 3 meter strip outside most homes in the country that nobody knows who owns it but this would ne maintained by the guys in the local rural scheme., there is some grant money available for concrete post and rail and a beach hedge.the path would be gravel.

Who is to own each strip? Does ownership stay with each landowner? Or transfer to where? If the council don’t own it then who is covering the insurance claim in a few year?

Sounds like a pipe dream tbh.

Angus2018 · 24-08-2018 02:29PM

If the council isn't paying then who would be in charge of moving ditches, hedges, fencing etc in 3m? What about building it? Then the upkeep and insurance costs?

I'd gladly give land to widen roads around my farm, they are getting busier every year with people driving in the middle who turn last second to avoid oncoming cars.

kerryjack · 24-08-2018 02:43PM

We haven't seen a council worker around these parts with years all work been carried out is with lads on local rural scheme and Communuty employment schemes and they do a good job in fairness.

freedominacup · 24-08-2018 02:45PM

893bet wrote: »

Who is to own each strip? Does ownership stay with each landowner? Or transfer to where? If the council don’t own it then who is covering the insurance claim in a few year?

Sounds like a pipe dream tbh.

The ownership/responsibility issue is massive here. There's a walk along a river valley here. Funding was organised by local community development committee, land donated (kind of) by landowners. Development was done. Shortly after it was complete there was a collective sigh of relief from everyone once council took responsibility for insurance. Maintenance is still on locals but at least if it all goes curly in the event of a claim they are indemnified by council. Get council agreement on this.

Hagimalone · 24-08-2018 02:53PM

This is normally carried out through a land dedication agreement with the land owner & the council. ie. land donated to the council for public use.

Aravo · 24-08-2018 08:45PM

cute geoge wrote:

I have seen plenty of places where roads have being widened ,footpath etc and a cheap timber fence put up in place of the ditch being replaced .My neighbour owned the field where the council wanted to take a dangerous bend but would not give permission unless his ditch was replaced ,the council built up his ditch again and everyone was happy .Any other place the council took ditches it is replaced with timber railing that the farmer is responsible for the upkeep!!!

Dealing with farmers would be tricky. One farmers digs the heels in and gets one thing and another just agrees and then feels bad when they see that the neighbour got something extra.

Figerty · 24-08-2018 08:52PM

Aravo wrote: »

Dealing with farmers would be tricky. One farmers digs the heels in and gets one thing and another just agrees and then feels bad when they see that the neighbour got something extra.

This was done locally here, by the Council. Local community group pushed it as it's leads to schools etc. If you give away the road frontage you need to be careful about implications for planning exits, sites etc.

I'd agree with the earlier poster that said, you could give it on the condition that the Council are involved.
Has the council got money from the Leader type project? If so, then this is a community project.

TomOnBoard · 24-08-2018 09:06PM

If your arrangement is with the council directly (as in a specific gifting for that purpose only in perpetuity - so they can't then use it to just widen the road-), and it doesn't compromise your site in the future (as in you won't always be the owner), and your land registry is updated at the council's expense, then it sounds like an admirable thing to do. Just remember that the council must replace your boundary with an acceptable alternative and accept responsibility for all future maintenance.

Aravo · 24-08-2018 09:14PM

TomOnBoard wrote:

Just remember that the council must replace your boundary with an acceptable alternative and accept responsibility for all future maintenance.

Councils accept maintenance responsibility on only TII funded schemes on national and motorway routes. Not on local and regional roads and not likely on some smallscale local measure and not on land dedication. No harm to look for the bees knees and sees what happens.

TomOnBoard · 24-08-2018 09:22PM

Aravo wrote: »

Councils accept maintenance responsibility on only TII funded schemes on national and motorway routes. Not on local and regional roads and not likely on some smallscale local measure and not on land dedication. No harm to look for the bees knees and sees what happens.

So then liability, together with maintenance responsibilities will rest with owners? Sadly, that would answer the question for me!

If a person's willingness to gift land into public ownership cannot/is not met with equivalent magnanimity by the public authority who is responsible outside my gate for safety of road users (incl cyclists) then its an appalling state of affairs and should be dealt with by firing the local councillors in the next election. In the meantime, make it an issue of public policy in your local area.

BarryD2 · 24-08-2018 09:23PM

The OP says it's a local community initiative, they want to do it because presumably Kerry CoCo can't or won't.. I think the best of these initiatives come from local community effort, so fair dues to them for doing this. As for those who are holding out, well surely a little community encouragement will sort matters. Even if it costs local people a bit, they'll have the satisfaction of seeing it used and put to good purpose and perhaps an accident or accidents avoided.

Would you give away 3 meters of road frontage to the community

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