"safest level of drinking is none" - new study

verycool · 24-08-2018 08:41AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8a3W_LbKc4

silverharp · 24-08-2018 08:48AM

I'd imagine its very difficult to test over a lifetime between some and none, its a no brainer that binge drinking or a beer gut means you are doing it wrong but otherwise its not a factor worth worrying about

gozunda · 24-08-2018 08:48AM

A couple of things come to mind here

Yes and eveything has the potential to make us sick

We all have to die of something

It's not that giving up stuff helps us live longer - it just seems that way...

Until they come up with the ultimate piece of research that beats all the others I'm going to continue to enjoy my life and not be a miserable shyte ...

boombang · 24-08-2018 08:51AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You might be getting confused with how the article is basically saying ANY form of alcohol consumption is bad - period.

Others (and myself included) point out to apparent health benefits from alcohol - but it's moderation that's key.

Who in under jaysis thinks the lad in the sleeping bag down the quays with a can of Linden Village super cider is looking healthier than their 64 year old mother in law who does Pilates/hill climbing and enjoys a glass of shiraz with her evening meal from time to time?

Moderation.

Too much of anything can kill ya.

I believe the report is stating that the benefits of reduced heart disease are more than outweighed by the other health harms.

Also, I think the message of the article is that moderation is not sufficient to avoid increasing risks. However, I will still continue to enjoy moderate alcohol consumption.

Separately, I was thinking of the male daily average in Ireland of over 2 pints a day. As an individual visit to the pub that sounds really modest, but I really doubt I have every achieved that say on a weekly average basis outside of Christmas week.

frozenfrozen · 24-08-2018 08:51AM

ara fook off study

_Brian · 24-08-2018 08:53AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

There was a woman lived a few houses up from us with her parents for years, died at 35.

Cancer took her, and I watched it take her, I noticed she was looking gaunt and pale weeks (months actually) before she broke the news that she had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. I watched her steadyily waste away - how she slowly progessively declined - right from losing weight to reluctantly giving up work then becoming less mobile/wheelchair bound.

35.

She neither smoked nor drank, wasn't married, didn't even have a boyfriend, you know what lads, I'd guess the poor girl was never even rode, but there you go - cancer claimed her.

Tldr.

Cancer doesn't give a fcuk whether you smoke/drink/eat fatty foods or anything else. Everything in moderation they say.

When your time is up its time to go. Simple as that.

Regarding cancer it’s not just completely pot luck though.

So a portion of it is, your born with a certain likelihood of getting cancer during your lifetime, then your lifestyle choices add or detract from that likelihood.

Some people have a strong genetic resistance to it and so their lifestyle will have little effect, that’s where the stories of people who drink and smoke into their late years without problems.
Equally some have a predisposition to cancer problems and so their lifestyle has a serious impact on their chances of having problems.

None of us really know our underlying predisposition to cancer or other illnesses, but lifestyle choices are what we control. Live your life any way you want, but it’s completoy wrong to say it has no impact on your chances of getting cancer or other lifestyle related illnesses.

Look at your immediate family circle, if cancer, high blood pressure etc are prominent then potentially you need to be aware and make lifestyle choices to improve your own chances of heading these things off.

Malayalam · 24-08-2018 09:06AM

_Brian wrote: »

Regarding cancer it’s not just completely pot luck though.

So a portion of it is, your born with a certain likelihood of getting cancer during your lifetime, then your lifestyle choices add or detract from that likelihood.

Some people have a strong genetic resistance to it and so their lifestyle will have little effect, that’s where the stories of people who drink and smoke into their late years without problems.
Equally some have a predisposition to cancer problems and so their lifestyle has a serious impact on their chances of having problems.

None of us really know our underlying predisposition to cancer or other illnesses, but lifestyle choices are what we control. Live your life any way you want, but it’s completoy wrong to say it has no impact on your chances of getting cancer or other lifestyle related illnesses.

Look at your immediate family circle, if cancer, high blood pressure etc are prominent then potentially you need to be aware and make lifestyle choices to improve your own chances of heading these things off.

Agreed.

It's not at all about living forever either, as some are suggesting people are trying to do. Everyone knows we die and often randomly. It's also about the every day experience of living, though. How shyte does one want to feel day to day if one consumes excess substances. Time lost to physical and mental recovery, whole days or even weks feeling sub par, life slipping past with constricted breathing or a gammy stomach or low mood. I guess we get to determine how much time we want to offer to those sub optimal states of existence.

JohnnyFlash · 24-08-2018 09:13AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You might be getting confused with how the article is basically saying ANY form of alcohol consumption is bad - period.

Others (and myself included) point out to apparent health benefits from alcohol - but it's moderation that's key.

Who in under jaysis thinks the lad in the sleeping bag down the quays with a can of Linden Village super cider is looking healthier than their 64 year old mother in law who does Pilates/hill climbing and enjoys a glass of shiraz with her evening meal from time to time?

Moderation.

Too much of anything can kill ya.

Mistaking nothing dude. The study is saying that abstinence is needed. Not moderation. Zero, zilch, nada. The study is suggesting that alcohol is a carcinogen. You can dispute the science behind that and how they came to that conclusion. The study isn’t titled ‘Alcohol is really bad, unless you moderate, and go for an odd jog’. They are saying it’s bad for you fullstop.

24-08-2018 09:21AM

Shiloh Rancid Tumor wrote: »

It's published in a reputable journal. This is the most credible source of information available.

It's not hugely surprising to hear alcohol seems to be a greater health concern than previously thought. Skepticism with this seems more likely to be because the news is unwelcome, rather than unlikely or lacking credibility.

I'm not surprised at all. I love a drink (borderline alcoholic, definite problem drinker) but was never under any illusion about it. I've been saying for years that in our lifetime information will keep coming and coming about how bad alcohol is for us.

I'm off the drink altogether for a while. Only noticing changes now, won't go into it because it's not the thread for it. :P If someone wants to drink it's their own business as far as I'm concerned but I have no issue with accurate information being put out. AFAIK the low amount being beneficial hasn't always been replicated even before now, though I'm very much open to correction on that.

beertons · 24-08-2018 09:24AM

Ah fu¢k off

24-08-2018 09:25AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I read an article on that prostate cancer study (not sure if it's the one you linked or another one) that went on to point out that they couldn't say for certain whether the effect was due to the alcohol consumed between the ages of 15 and 19, or that people who drank a lot at that age were more likely to drink heavily later in life.

Obviously it's still better if people that age (and any age) cut down their drinking if it's excessive, but the study is potentially misleading.

the other point being that kids drinking reasonably heavily at 15-9 are not likely to be ahead of any of the long-term health curves in terms of diet, road behaviour, scrapping, smoking, whatever

no war but a class war comrades

SEPT 23 1989 · 24-08-2018 09:29AM

more of a Monday morning thread I would have thought

Malayalam · 24-08-2018 09:37AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the other point being that kids drinking reasonably heavily at 15-9 are not likely to be ahead of any of the long-term health curves in terms of diet, road behaviour, scrapping, smoking, whatever

no war but a class war comrades

7 units a week is about 3 or 4 pints though (isn't it?) . Not really your deprived demographic hitting the drugs kind of levels. Anyway like Jimbob said maybe not wholly provable....still...

Agree about the class war though

JMNolan · 24-08-2018 09:40AM

If my 2.5 pints a week is going to reduce my lifespan then so be it, I consider it a fair trade off

PlaneSpeeking · 24-08-2018 09:42AM

JMNolan wrote: »

If my 2.5 pints a week is going to reduce my lifespan then so be it, I consider it a fair trade off

I'm with Denis Leary on his thoughts on smoking "smoking takes ten years off your life ? It's the worst ten, it's the wheelchair, adult diaper years!"

GBX · 24-08-2018 09:43AM

Id a heap of drink last night so far I've seen 2 news articles and now this thread warning about drink..... Its worrying me so much I'm gonna stop reading

Malayalam · 24-08-2018 09:46AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm with Denis Leary on his thoughts on smoking "smoking takes ten years off your life ? It's the worst ten, it's the wheelchair, adult diaper years!"

Haha it's true and I thought like that about my lovely weekend rollies, but in the end I thought it's not those 10 years I give a shyte about it's the 30 years before that of possible wheezing and feeling like a maggot that I don't want.

PlaneSpeeking · 24-08-2018 09:48AM

Malayalam wrote: »

Haha it's true and I thought like that about my lovely weekend rollies, but in the end I thought it's not those 10 years I give a shyte about it's the 30 years before that of possible wheezing and feeling like a maggot that I don't want.

I'm a great believer in "if it's legal and makes you happy, do it!"

You could get hit by a bus tomorrow!

valoren · 24-08-2018 09:49AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Plenty of cognitive dissonance going on in this thread already. The ‘sure didn’t I know a lad who drank 10 pints a day, smoked 40 woodbine, installed asbestos for a living, and lived until he was 97’ sort of stuff. Using it as a way of mentally objectifying their own patterns of behaviour.

There’s absolutely no reason to doubt the veracity of this study. Ethanol is a poison. And while some of the Irish might have replaced the binge drinking at the weekend with the bottle of wine a night, there’s no doubt that we have major issues around how much and why we drink.

There is a stigma attached to alcohol which fuels the cognitive dissonance as well. Whereas if someone smoked 40 cigarettes a day it is abundantly clear they are addicted to the drug nicotine. Were you to tell them they are addicted they would emphatically agree with you. There is no stigma attached to cigarettes. If the same person binge drank every weekend, or drank every evening if you tell them they are addicted to alcohol for some bizarre reason they come up with a litany of excuses in line with the dissonance to justify a pattern of addiction. Typically they become very angry about it because there is a stigma attached to the booze. Nobody wants to be labelled alcoholic.

It's common sense to see that ingesting ethanol provides no valid benefit beyond inducing a euphoric response. It is so ingrained in our society and culture that it is here to stay, no matter the studies done to confirm it is very bad for your health. It's great to get pissed now and again, it is a moreish drug after all yet it is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The more studies like this proving common sensibilities as to it's negative impact on health will get more people looking at their own drinking patterns and deciding what they personally wish to do in future.

JMNolan · 24-08-2018 09:56AM

valoren wrote: »

There is a stigma attached to alcohol which fuels the cognitive dissonance as well. Whereas if someone smoked 40 cigarettes a day it is abundantly clear they are addicted to the drug nicotine. Were you to tell them they are addicted they would emphatically agree with you. There is no stigma attached to cigarettes. If the same person binge drank every weekend, or drank every evening if you tell them they are addicted to alcohol for some bizarre reason they come up with a litany of excuses in line with the dissonance to justify a pattern of addiction. Typically they become very angry about it because there is a stigma attached to the booze. Nobody wants to be labelled alcoholic.

It's common sense to see that ingesting ethanol provides no valid benefit beyond inducing a euphoric response. It is so ingrained in our society and culture that it is here to stay, no matter the studies done to confirm it is very bad for your health. It's great to get pissed now and again, it is a moreish drug after all yet it is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The more studies like this proving common sensibilities as to it's negative impact on health will get more people looking at their own drinking patterns and deciding what they personally wish to do in future.

I suppose the problem with this study is that even a glass of wine a year will now cause cancer so people are a little confused.

monty_python · 24-08-2018 09:59AM

How in the name of **** does drinks cause TB?

valoren · 24-08-2018 09:59AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You might be getting confused with how the article is basically saying ANY form of alcohol consumption is bad - period.

Others (and myself included) point out to apparent health benefits from alcohol - but it's moderation that's key.

Who in under jaysis thinks the lad in the sleeping bag down the quays with a can of Linden Village super cider is looking healthier than their 64 year old mother in law who does Pilates/hill climbing and enjoys a glass of shiraz with her evening meal from time to time?

Moderation.

Too much of anything can kill ya.

It's crazy the mental gymnastics addicted drinkers drag up to justify their boozing.

That's the cognitive dissonance. The 'at least I'm not like that...' i.e. the bag of can merchants on the quays.

I see it in my dad. He's addicted to the booze.
My mother's grandfather had a reputation as a local troublemaker. Always getting into fights, treated the family like crap. According to my dad anyway.

He got arrested for drink driving in January. Drank a bottle of whiskey, went driving for more and got caught rotten. Now would you think he has a drinking problem? Of course he has. Does he think he has a drinking problem? Of course he doesn't. He got confronted about getting arrested was told he had a problem, needed help but he got furious and said at least he wasn't like my mother's granddad. That was his reasoning, comparing himself to a man who had died over half a century earlier. At least he wasn't like him. :pac:

Mountainsandh · 24-08-2018 10:00AM

eagle eye wrote: »

The reaction to the article in this thread suggests that there is a major alcohol problem with the posters.

Inaccurate.
I hardly drink ever (medication) and I'm pissed off with such articles.

Live and let live. And die. Whatever.

Life is not a safe venture.

JMNolan · 24-08-2018 10:01AM

valoren wrote: »

It's crazy the mental gymnastics addicted drinkers drag up to justify their boozing.

That's the cognitive dissonance. The 'at least I'm not like that...' i.e. the bag of can merchants on the quays.

I see it in my dad. He's addicted to the booze.
My mother's grandfather had a reputation as a local troublemaker. Always getting into fights, treated the family like crap. According to my dad anyway.

He got arrested for drink driving in January. Drank a bottle of whiskey, went driving for more and got caught rotten. Now would you think he has a drinking problem? Of course he has. Does he think he has a drinking problem? Of course he doesn't. He got confronted about getting arrested was told he had a problem, needed help but he got furious and said at least he wasn't like my mother's granddad. That was his reasoning, comparing himself to a man who had died over half a century earlier. At least he wasn't like him. :pac:

That's similar to the mother drinking a glass of Pinot every evening. She doesn't have a problem in her head, she's not on skid row. Yet could she not have something non-alcoholic instead?

Out of curiosity, in your opinion, is there any level of alcohol consumption that is not problematic?

sbsquarepants · 24-08-2018 10:02AM

You really get a pain in your arse with all this nonsense. It's all swings and roundabouts - drinking may lead to some cancers, but then it may protect against heart disease......yada yada yada. Moderation is the key to everything, a couple of pints, a couple of coffess, a couple of sausages every now and then and you'll be fine.

Drink only water, eat only organic wheatgerm, exercise daily and you'll still die at the end of it. Might as well enjoy yourself in the time you're here.

At the end of the day we are all going to end up in a box, something has to cause it!

The simple fact is that everything is poisonous - there is not any substance in the entire world that will not kill you in sufficient amounts, the only difference is the amount required. You need a microscopic amount of botulism for example as opposed to maybe couple of litres of vodka (a lot less in many cases), or a car boot full of chocolate.

Sardine · 24-08-2018 10:03AM

eagle eye wrote: »

The reaction to the article in this thread suggests that there is a major alcohol problem with the posters.

People like a drink. Life can be pretty sh*t, boring, pointless, listless...
Sometimes a few drinks and a laugh is great fun, the best kind of fun, and we all know we'll probably get cancer one way or another sooner or later so articles like this are just telling us stuff we already know and don't want to think about.

valoren · 24-08-2018 10:04AM

JMNolan wrote: »

Out of curiosity, in your opinion, is there any level of alcohol consumption that is not problematic?

I guess a litmus test would be to ask oneself if they, from tomorrow, could never consume alcohol again, period (that it was no longer available0, would they have a problem with that? If answering honestly if they could easily forego that intermittent glass of shiraz, that it wouldn't bother them in the slightest then they have no problem. If it would induce some kind of panic or anxiety then you'd have to question your drinking.

JMNolan · 24-08-2018 10:09AM

A comment on the research

Yet Prof David Spiegelhalter, Winton Professor for the Public Understanding of Risk at the University of Cambridge, sounded a note of caution about the findings.

"Given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking, claiming there is no 'safe' level does not seem an argument for abstention," he said.

"There is no safe level of driving, but the government does not recommend that people avoid driving.

"Come to think of it, there is no safe level of living, but nobody would recommend abstention."

ohnonotgmail · 24-08-2018 10:13AM

valoren wrote: »

I guess a litmus test would be to ask oneself if they, from tomorrow, could never consume alcohol again, period, would they have a problem with that? If answering honestly if they could easily forego the intermittent glass of shiraz, that it wouldn't bother them in the slightest then they have no problem. If it would induce some kind of panic or anxiety then you'd have to question your drinking.

Could I? Yes, i rarely drink as it is. Would i want to? absolutely not.

Mountainsandh · 24-08-2018 10:16AM

valoren wrote: »

I guess a litmus test would be to ask oneself if they, from tomorrow, could never consume alcohol again, period, would they have a problem with that? If answering honestly if they could easily forego the intermittent glass of shiraz, that it wouldn't bother them in the slightest then they have no problem. If it would induce some kind of panic or anxiety then you'd have to question your drinking.

Pfff... if you told me the same with chocolate or salad, I'd feel some panic or anxiety.

Do I have a salad problem ?

"safest level of drinking is none" - new study

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