Should we protest against the pope's visit?

RustyNut · 23-08-2018 10:00PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

interesting Prime Time at the moment.

They took out an insurance policy to cover themselves against claims from child rape victims and that bishop claims well I didn't know anything. Full of siht.

Fighting Tao · 23-08-2018 10:01PM

RustyNut wrote: »

They took out an insurance policy to cover themselves against claims from child rape victims and that bishop claims well I didn't know anything. Full of siht.

He also was laughing to himself when Mannix Flynn was talking. Caught on camera too. That is one evil ****er.

NIMAN · 23-08-2018 10:02PM

Omar Orange Ignoramus wrote: »

Straight from the horse's mouth in the press today:

ARCHBISHOP Diarmuid Martin has said the number of children abused by priests here is “immense” and called for an easier judicial system for victims giving evidence in court.
Speaking on the second day of the World Meeting of Families, Martin said the number of prosecutions of clerical abuse is “very low”.

Without being a maths wizard, 'immense vs verylow'
- equates to something being 'not quite right' with the church, either now or in the past.
Here, there, and everywhere.

Do we have actual figures for number of priests in jail for child abuse?

Water John · 23-08-2018 10:06PM

The figure from the website is 70 proved. But this is a fraction of the total, that's the major problem. I think 300 i s the mentioned figure. Why would the figures in this country be different to the USA which was 6%. Now what would that work out at?

Beechwoodspark · 23-08-2018 10:07PM

Gorman is brutal tonight on prime time.

gmisk · 23-08-2018 10:08PM

NIMAN wrote: »

Do we have actual figures for number of priests in jail for child abuse?

Hard to find.
But this story says 8 convictions from 325 allegations
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.thejournal.ie/allegations-child-abuse-religious-jesuit-orders-2320670-Sep2015/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjlkuGVioTdAhXoJMAKHWuqCyIQFjAGegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3FDuEdlaolQGFhwIUOozKY&ampcf=1

NIMAN · 23-08-2018 10:09PM

That has always worried me.

There should be thousands of priests in jail by now. I'd say worldwide but I'm sure Ireland should have hundreds too.

Why aren't the Gardai taking reports from abuse victims and going to arrest all these priests? Are they above the law?

gmisk · 23-08-2018 10:10PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Gorman is brutal tonight on prime time.

His voice is brutal.... But he is wiping the floor with this priest... He has so many examples of the hierarchy in the Catholic Church covering up widespread abuse its stacked in his favour

Auguste Comte · 23-08-2018 10:11PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Gorman is brutal tonight on prime time.

In what way?

AllForIt · 23-08-2018 10:15PM

Auguste Comte wrote: »

In what way?

He must mean brutal as in taking a brutal stance on the church cause anything else wouldn't make any sense. Colm O Gorman is a superb debater imo. I'm amazed he can remain so calm when he's delivering his arguments.

gmisk · 23-08-2018 10:17PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

He also was laughing to himself when Mannix Flynn was talking. Caught on camera too. That is one evil ****er.

Horrendous.... Smirking.... Love to say I am shocked.

But make no mistake the public opinion on the Catholic Church has changed forever imo.
Big numbers will show up on Saturday and Sunday but this really means fairly little for the future of the church here.

I have no real issue with this visit, I do have an issue to a degree however with vast amounts of public money being used.

NIMAN · 23-08-2018 10:20PM

I am wondering how you call an insurance company and ask for a policy to cover you for abusing and raping kids

Fighting Tao · 23-08-2018 10:20PM

gmisk wrote: »

Horrendous.... Smirking.... Love to say I am shocked.

But make no mistake the public opinion on the Catholic Church has changed forever imo.
Big numbers will show up on Saturday and Sunday but this really means fairly little for the future of the church here.

A large percentage of those turning up are religious tourists. However, I’m sure the RCC will try to pass them off as Irish members to make the church look good.

gmisk · 23-08-2018 10:25PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

A large percentage of those turning up are religious tourists. However, I’m sure the RCC will try to pass them off as Irish members to make the church look good.

That is probably true, also a large chunk from Northern Ireland as well. My sister her husband and there 4 kids amongst them.
It is telling out of my family my mum my dad and myself no longer attend mass. I think we all became disillusioned over the years with the attitude and actions of the Catholic Church. Even my sister has her issues and she is an RE teacher!

An_Toirpin · 23-08-2018 10:52PM

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Where did you get the 10,000 figure from? I don't believe it's correct.

It still wouldn't explain why the Catholic church management hid dangerous criminals and enabled them to continue to commit some of the most heinous crimes against children even when they became aware of their crimes.

There were 15,735 committals into Irish prisons in 2013 according to the Irish Prison Service. Eitherway of the exact figure we practise mass incarceration nowadays and we didn't back then.

I totally agree with you when priests were plonked into positions of power over kids but that is different to cases when there was a sincere effort to reprimand abusers and protect kids. There are many such cases, particulalry in the Dublin diocese. When referring to just a broad non-monolithic organisation as the Catholic Church it is not good enough to simply blame 'the church', you have to look at responsibility, in some cases the Pope is and sometimes not. Do you blame Obama for the horrific allegations of child abuse at US child immigrant detention centres during his presidential tenure? I know many Republicans do but I wouldn't, unless a report was laid on the desk that he ignored.

An_Toirpin · 23-08-2018 10:54PM

gmisk wrote: »

Horrendous.... Smirking.... Love to say I am shocked.

But make no mistake the public opinion on the Catholic Church has changed forever imo.
Big numbers will show up on Saturday and Sunday but this really means fairly little for the future of the church here.

I have no real issue with this visit, I do have an issue to a degree however with vast amounts of public money being used.

Ah the the secularist group therapy.

Who cares about public opinion, I'd rather stand for truth and a universal consistent moral system.

gmisk · 23-08-2018 11:01PM

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Ah the the secularist group therapy.

Who cares about public opinion, I'd rather stand for truth and a universal consistent moral system.

Secularist group therapy? This is a public forum my opinions are every bit as valid as anyone else's, this isn't a group therapy site... As far as I am aware.
Stand for whatever you wish, you like everyone else in Ireland can practice whatever faith they like.

Fighting Tao · 23-08-2018 11:04PM

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Ah the the secularist group therapy.

Who cares about public opinion, I'd rather stand for truth and a universal consistent moral system.

I’d love to see a census taken at the gates to the Phoenix Park where everyone is honest. Questions would be: resident in Ireland and attending for fear of missing out.

It would highlight how many are actually living here and aren’t just going for the show as people love to be able to say they were at a gig.

Another one on the way out asking if they applauded the pope. This would highlight how many think that the CEO is doing a great job whilst protecting child abusers.

If people were honest it would be your truth. However, from experience, those with religion are usually the least honest and Christian acting.

An_Toirpin · 23-08-2018 11:13PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I’d love to see a census taken at the gates to the Phoenix Park where everyone is honest. Questions would be: resident in Ireland and attending for fear of missing out.

It would highlight how many are actually living here and aren’t just going for the show as people love to be able to say they were at a gig.

Another one on the way out asking if they applauded the pope. This would highlight how many think that the CEO is doing a great job whilst protecting child abusers.

If people were honest it would be your truth. However, from experience, those with religion are usually the least honest and Christian acting.

Well if the horrible christians are the least honest amongst that saves you the hassle of needing to survey them.

Fighting Tao · 23-08-2018 11:15PM

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Well if the horrible christians are the least honest amongst that saves you the hassle of needing to survey them.

I always like to give a person a chance before writing them off.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-08-2018 12:44AM

An_Toirpin wrote: »

In 1950 there was just 469 men in prison. We have over 10,000 these days. Sadly very victims were getting justice. Different world.

There are 4,022 people in prison custody in Ireland (01 August 2018).

The average number of females in custody was 144 in 2017, a 2.9% increase on the 2016 average of 140.

So that's approx 3,880 men which is a long way away from 10,000.

Source - Irish Penal Reform Trust

You're talking through your hoop to be honest.

Hitman3000 · 24-08-2018 01:38AM

Scottish authorities have arrested 11females and one male for historical abuse in a former Scottish (Catholic )care home. Their ages range from 62 to 85.

An_Toirpin · 24-08-2018 03:23AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There are 4,022 people in prison custody in Ireland (01 August 2018).

The average number of females in custody was 144 in 2017, a 2.9% increase on the 2016 average of 140.

So that's approx 3,880 men which is a long way away from 10,000.

Source - Irish Penal Reform Trust

You're talking through your hoop to be honest.

I referred to committals not that live figure on any particular date. It is the total number admitted in that year. Many peoples' sentences are shorter than one year so committals is a lot more than the live figure. 10,731 males in 2013.
https://www.irishprisons.ie/information-centre/statistics-information/
Now that figure I quoted for 1950 might be committals or the live number on a particular date. But it is not accessible to me. But the broader point remains that modern Ireland has a vastly higher incarceration than in 1950, we could even say mass incarceration. Either people in 1950 1/10-1/20 of the crime, had a vastly different culture of sentencing or most likely had lower conviction rates.

I make this look too easy.

vicwatson · 24-08-2018 06:13AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Scottish authorities have arrested 11females and one male for historical abuse in a former Scottish (Catholic )care home. Their ages range from 62 to 85.

And some are nuns

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-45282865

padd b1975 · 24-08-2018 06:40AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

He also was laughing to himself when Mannix Flynn was talking. Caught on camera too. That is one evil ****er.

Nobody takes Mannix seriously in fairness.

He's the Mattie McGrath of the loony left.

vicwatson · 24-08-2018 07:09AM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Nobody takes Mannix seriously in fairness.

He's the Mattie McGrath of the loony left.

Whatever

But Derry bishop should not have acted like a dickhead, Flynn was a victim of abuse and Derry bishop is smirking. Twat.

Fighting Tao · 24-08-2018 07:27AM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Nobody takes Mannix seriously in fairness.

He's the Mattie McGrath of the loony left.

Is that an attempt at a joke? If so it’s horrendous. While I’m not a fan of Mannix as a politician, he was telling what happened him while he was in industrial school. The rape that occurred, how anyone that reported the abuse got raped even more to teach them a lesson, how he lost friends to suicide because of it, and how it affected his family life with his mother who remained a person of faith.

If you think that’s funny then you are seriously fcuked up in the head.

Hitman3000 · 24-08-2018 07:28AM

padd b1975 wrote:

Nobody takes Mannix seriously in fairness.

Are you suggesting he is lying about the abuse he suffered?

erica74 · 24-08-2018 07:29AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Is that an attempt at a joke? If so it’s horrendous. While I’m not a fan of Mannix as a politician, he was telling what happened him while he was in industrial school. The rape that occurred, how anyone that reported the abuse got raped even more to teach them a lesson, how he lost friends to suicide because of it, and how it affected his family life with his mother who remained a person of faith.

If you think that’s funny then you are seriously fcuked up in the head.

That is absolutely and utterly awful and must have been terrifying for all of them.

RobbingBandit · 24-08-2018 07:37AM

Would love to see just how much is being spent painting the lampposts in city centre near the pro cathedral how much businesses will lose on lost productivity due to traffic restrictions on Saturday in city centre and how much has been tossed at the security detail for this idiocy.

I'd guess there will be protests when the money spent on this is revealed in the near future.

Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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