The rise of the far right is the greatest threat to Western Civilisation

Odhinn · 23-08-2018 04:08PM

Taytoland wrote: »

My hope is more people walk away from leftist politics and towards conservatism.

Walk down a traditional route, like?

ohnonotgmail · 23-08-2018 04:10PM

Odhinn wrote: »

Walk down a traditional route, like?

Taytoland is always banging that drum.

silverharp · 23-08-2018 04:11PM

the easy answer is don't give the far right fuel by snuffing out the middle ground and don't denigrate whole swathes of the population by referring to them under terms like "populism" "reactionary" etc. maybe they have a point

Woke Hogan · 23-08-2018 04:12PM

King of Kings wrote: »

everything that doesnt bow to progressive leftie values is labelled far right these days.

even that crazy women mcAleese calls the popes arrival a far right rally.

normal god bothering folk who just want to go to heaven and have no interest in (or knowledge of) who wins at twitter are now being compared to lads goosestepping shouting "seig heil" ffs.

its lost its meaning at this stage....by some measures Im probably far right...and Im ok with that.

As a "normal god bothering" person why did you call yourself the King of Kings?

Frostybrew · 23-08-2018 04:12PM

FTA69 wrote: »

That's what's happening now. If someone told you 12 years ago that a man like Farage and his mates would take Britain out of the EU, that Corbyn is posed to be the next Prime Minister, Trump is the President, that a bunch of loolas would take over Italy etc you'd think they were mental. But that's the world we live in now.

However today the people driving project Europe and austerity and deindustrialisation aren't the "liberal left". This sort of capitalism has its roots in Thatcher and Reagan and is currently being perpetuated by conservative parties at the behest of big business. It's not the Guardian dickheads who (painful as they are) are causing stagnating wages and flogging off public services.

I would agree with this. The rise of the far right in the UK and other countries is a result of the failure of centre and centre right policies.

euser1984 · 23-08-2018 04:12PM

so are the lefts in ireland

FTA69 · 23-08-2018 04:14PM

Wibbs wrote: »

While there are always political extremists and malcontents in any society, the far Right(or the far Left for that matter) needs fertile ground to grow in. They don't spring from the ether. As topper75 notes Nazi Germany didn't come from nowhere. It can be directly linked with how Germany fared and was treated after The Great War in things like the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. It fostered economic hardship, social problems and a feeling of being made to take the entire blame for WW1. That's a vacuum something will rush to fill, and a few somethings did, from far left to far right, the "winner" was the far right.

Today the Right is rising in Europe in some quarters because of economic downturns, social problems, immigration and the feeling that enough seem to have of disillusionment with centre/mainstream politicians both locally and in the wider EU. The latter very much in play in Greece, Italy, Greece and the UK, hence one of the reasons for Brexit. If you're one of the large percentage of unemployed in say Greece and on the one hand you hear the EU calling for belt tightening, yet on the other hand you're also being asked to take in many thousands of migrants, many of whom are economic migrants, it's easy to hear the siren call of those who promise a fix and a feeling of national pride.

Here in Ireland I have far fewer concerns about any extreme politics coming in, right or left. Culturally and thankfully we tend to be more a "meh, sure it'll be grand" and leave our "extremism" in more local politics, and even there it's hardly extreme at all. Plus while we've had economic problems, we seem to be weathering them well enough and our geography also tends to keep immigration at a low level compared to the rest of Europe. Our lack of a direct colonial past helps here too.

I work for a union and spent years in construction, I meet that type of working class person every single day. Despite the rhetoric a lot of the commentariat throw out about the "White Working Class", it's not really about clashing cultures and race etc. This is a way bigger thing than that. I nearly got into a digging match with a black football hooligan at one event. It's got its roots embedded in, as you said, the nature of our economic system that has replaced well-paid skilled jobs with bullsh*t McJobs coupled with declining public services that people relied on. Also, we'll be having 60% of your sh*tty Asda salary for a room somewhere too cos you'll never get a gaff yourself. It's all well and good telling some 46 year old former pipe-fitter from Burnley that he should go to university and become a code writer.

The far-right doesn't exist because working class people are stupid, or because the far-right are "bad people" (some of them are though) - but because they're perceived as the only alternative to a really sh*t situation. Wages have stagnated for 20 years, inequality is skyrocketing and so called Social Democratic parties' only answer is to tell people f*ck up and embrace modernity. Then they're absolutely stunned when people go another way.

Huge swathes of people have abandoned Labour here and trying to sell Labour after 25 years of the same party full of elite suits threw them on the scrapheap is like trying to palm off a sh*tty nappy. The damage is done in a lot of places.

euser1984 · 23-08-2018 04:15PM

the neo-conservatives in america are the most important thing we have in the western world to protect it - and I was shocked when i found out first what they do as well

they are far right!

King of Kings · 23-08-2018 04:18PM

Woke Hogan wrote: »

As a "normal god bothering" person why did you call yourself the King of Kings?

honestly i liked the ben hur type piece in the simpsons....with mister burns

AH answer : I am jesus.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 23-08-2018 04:20PM

What is Far Right these days? Normal run of the mill traditional conservative views seem to be called Far Right.

Even classical liberals are being labeled as such.

King of Kings · 23-08-2018 04:25PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

But what do you think of the people in the image from my last post? Are they far right? Because it seems to me that the opposite of what you say is true as well, NOBODY can be called far right, even when they're literally dressed as blackshirts marching in the street and intimidating gypsies, Jews and immigrants. Apparently that's just protecting Europe's integrity and being "labeled" a Nazi.

of course there is a far right....but as for those gloifying nazi's and hitler its tiny....

people lose the argument when they label everything they dont like far right...

Cordell · 23-08-2018 04:28PM

Far left far right far bollix, the real problem is the us vs. them pack mentality. We get further and further away from a way in which people with radically different ideas can coexist and collaborate for the greater good.

quintana76 · 23-08-2018 04:29PM

Wibbs wrote: »

While there are always political extremists and malcontents in any society, the far Right(or the far Left for that matter) needs fertile ground to grow in. They don't spring from the ether. As topper75 notes Nazi Germany didn't come from nowhere. It can be directly linked with how Germany fared and was treated after The Great War in things like the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. It fostered economic hardship, social problems and a feeling of being made to take the entire blame for WW1. That's a vacuum something will rush to fill, and a few somethings did, from far left to far right, the "winner" was the far right.

Today the Right is rising in Europe in some quarters because of economic downturns, social problems, immigration and the feeling that enough seem to have of disillusionment with centre/mainstream politicians both locally and in the wider EU. The latter very much in play in Greece, Italy, Greece and the UK, hence one of the reasons for Brexit. If you're one of the large percentage of unemployed in say Greece and on the one hand you hear the EU calling for belt tightening, yet on the other hand you're also being asked to take in many thousands of migrants, many of whom are economic migrants, it's easy to hear the siren call of those who promise a fix and a feeling of national pride.

Here in Ireland I have far fewer concerns about any extreme politics coming in, right or left. Culturally and thankfully we tend to be more a "meh, sure it'll be grand" and leave our "extremism" in more local politics, and even there it's hardly extreme at all. Plus while we've had economic problems, we seem to be weathering them well enough and our geography also tends to keep immigration at a low level compared to the rest of Europe. Our lack of a direct colonial past helps here too.

Ireland currently has a Quisling Government that was recently in Italy begging reluctant "refugees" to come to Ireland. An excellent social welfare package was one of the enticements. Leo is Merkel's and the EU's bitch.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 23-08-2018 04:30PM

The Nazi economic stuff always confused me.

Seemed more left wing to me.

Frostybrew · 23-08-2018 04:33PM

quintana76 wrote: »

Ireland currently has a Quisling Government that was recently in Italy begging reluctant "refugees" to come to Ireland. An excellent social welfare package was one of the enticements. Leo is Merkel's and the EU's bitch.

I doubt that Quisling would have been begging refugees to come to his country.

King of Kings · 23-08-2018 04:33PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Nazi economic stuff always confused me.

Seemed more left wing to me.

i kinda agree but hitler got things done..cant imagine paul murphy being so efficent...

Cordell · 23-08-2018 04:36PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Nazi economic stuff always confused me.

Seemed more left wing to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

23-08-2018 04:36PM

FTA69 wrote: »

I work for a union and spent years in construction, I meet that type of working class person every single day. Despite the rhetoric a lot of the commentariat throw out about the "White Working Class", it's not really about clashing cultures and race etc. This is a way bigger thing than that. I nearly got into a digging match with a black football hooligan at one event. It's got its roots embedded in, as you said, the nature of our economic system that has replaced well-paid skilled jobs with bullsh*t McJobs coupled with declining public services that people relied on. Also, we'll be having 60% of your sh*tty Asda salary for a room somewhere too cos you'll never get a gaff yourself. It's all well and good telling some 46 year old former pipe-fitter from Burnley that he should go to university and become a code writer.

The far-right doesn't exist because working class people are stupid, or because the far-right are "bad people" (some of them are though) - but because they're perceived as the only alternative to a really sh*t situation. Wages have stagnated for 20 years, inequality is skyrocketing and so called Social Democratic parties' only answer is to tell people f*ck up and embrace modernity. Then they're absolutely stunned when people go another way.

Huge swathes of people have abandoned Labour here and trying to sell Labour after 25 years of the same party full of elite suits threw them on the scrapheap is like trying to palm off a sh*tty nappy. The damage is done in a lot of places.

Great post, but you have to answer one or two-points well paid unionised semi-skilled manufacturing jobs are not coming back so what is the answer? what happened to Rover cars for example.

Why is the answer always to appease those who voter far right instead of an appeal to the 'morality' ( not sure if that is the right word ) of voting for a far-right party, in other words, educating people and asking them to do the right thing. I know that is a bit nieve.

property in Burnley is cheap by the way.

Dude89 · 23-08-2018 04:38PM

What load of nonsense OP

archer22 · 23-08-2018 04:39PM

quintana76 wrote: »

Ireland currently has a Quisling Government that was recently in Italy begging reluctant "refugees" to come to Ireland. An excellent social welfare package was one of the enticements. Leo is Merkel's and the EU's bitch.

Ireland is responsible for bringing a lot of the refugees to Italy...I think its only fair that the finders be the keepers.

FTA69 · 23-08-2018 04:40PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What is Far Right these days? Normal run of the mill traditional conservative views seem to be called Far Right.

Even classical liberals are being labeled as such.

There is an element of that. You had a group of dopey unwashed student anarchists over here try and no-platform Jacob Rees-Mogg; it was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. A bunch of yahoos roaring at the archtypical English gentleman. A tactic normally reserved for violent neo-Nazis being deployed against a Conservative politician, you couldn't make it up.

For me far-right would encompass things like racism obviously. But more subtly and deeper is the concept of ultra-nationalism i.e. the belief that a person's right to be 'from' a place is contingent on them having a certain religion or skin colour. This would be in opposition to the concept of the citizen that all have equal stake in a state/republic etc.

In places like Turkey, militarisation and the veneration of the army as being equal to the government etc would be a factor. Often coupled with a glorification of imperialism and colonialism, something prevalent in the UK.

An important one for me is scapegoating, the idea that all problems in a country boil down to the presence of a given minority. Many of the Tommy Robinson/UKIP crowd genuinely believe that if we kick out Muslims/foreigners then the country will return to its former glory immediately. It completely takes the eye off those running the country politically and economically and puts it on some fella in a kebab shop or driving a taxi.

So is far-right a 100% concrete term? No. But then again neither are things like "democrat" or "socialist", but they definitely exist.

silverharp · 23-08-2018 04:41PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Nazi economic stuff always confused me.

Seemed more left wing to me.

well there is socialist in the name :pac:

FTA69 · 23-08-2018 04:43PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Great post, but you have to answer one or two-points well paid unionised semi-skilled manufacturing jobs are not coming back so what is the answer? what happened to Rover cars for example.

Why is the answer always to appease those who voter far right instead of an appeal to the 'morality' ( not sure if that is the right word ) of voting for a far-right party, in other words, educating people and asking them to do the right thing. I know that is a bit nieve.

property in Burnley is cheap by the way.

Because working class people have legitimate grievances and unless you address their material concerns around housing, jobs, services and community they won't pay you any heed and they're right too. I don't agree with supporting the far-right, but we need to understand why people do it. As for appealing to "morality", the Guardian tossers have been doing that for years and see where it's got them. Absolutely nothing will put people's heckles up and have them prepared to start throwing slaps as some university, finger-wagging type giving them lecture about "you know, the far right and Tommy Robinson are like, dicks man."

leonffrench · 23-08-2018 04:44PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote:

Seemed more left wing to me.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote:

The Nazi economic stuff always confused me.

National. Socialism.

Frostybrew · 23-08-2018 04:44PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Nazi economic stuff always confused me.

Seemed more left wing to me.

Socialist style economics, but only for those of Aryan descent.

euser1984 · 23-08-2018 04:45PM

every far right need to be taken into context.

just like movements get called names hitlerism, stalinism

the far right in america is a lot different to far right movements in italy - those in italy are extreme anarchists

silverharp · 23-08-2018 04:45PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Because working class people have legitimate grievances and unless you address their material concerns around housing, jobs, services and community they won't pay you any heed and they're right too. I don't agree with supporting the far-right, but we need to understand why people do it. As for appealing to "morality", the Guardian tossers have been doing that for years and see where it's got them. Absolutely nothing will put people's heckles up and have them prepared to start throwing slaps as some university, finger-wagging type giving them lecture about "you know, the far right and Tommy Robinson are like, dicks man."

it kinds of looks like woke middle class tend to communism and woke working towards fascism? they are both collectivist and anti the individual though

23-08-2018 04:50PM

The middle ground is the way to go always has been and always will be. It the extremest on both sides that cause all the trouble.

TheValeyard · 23-08-2018 04:54PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

So the greatest threats to Western Civilisation according to the scribes on AH are (this is not in ranked order btw).....

1. Fascism
2. Communism
3. Socialism
4. Feminism
5. Cultural Marxism
6. Islamism
7. Capitalism
8. Gombeenism
9. Unionism
10. Catholicism

Too many ****ing isms.....

So you're saying we need to kill the isms to save civilisation!!

SnakePlissken · 23-08-2018 04:54PM

Frostybrew wrote: »

There is an old saying that "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Why would the outcome of the present situation be any different?

There's a certain irony in your use of this quote. Certain mouthy posters on Boards have labelled me a fascist, a racist, a supporter of the Far-Right, all for expressing my opinion that, as mass immigration from Muslim nations has been of absolutely no benefit both socially or economically to Germany, France, or Sweden, it would be utterly naive for Ireland to adopt similar policies in the belief the outcome here would be different.

But then, it's much easier to simply label someone as being on the far-right of the political spectrum, than, oh I don't know, debate in a reasonable and mature manner.

The rise of the far right is the greatest threat to Western Civilisation

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