Should we protest against the pope's visit?

work · 23-08-2018 08:24AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

In my case I wanted him to go where he'd have the best chance to do well.. if the teacher was spending lots of time trying to teach other kids basic English then, given that there's only so many hours in the school day, how can others NOT suffer.

So you agree that teachers having to spend time teaching stuff to kids that is not necessary for most of the class effects the education of the children?

That is exactly the point the others weremaking about wasting time on religion!

We need to separate state and religeon so there is clarity and a level field in education.
By going to most state schools you get your child indoctrinated in a fake deity and lots of time wasted on this, you may believe in some higher being or beings but with zero evidence this is not something you should teach as reality. Be under no illusion on how effective this indoctrination is.
By going to an educate together you avoid this religeos cr@p but there are genuinely other concerns, and before anyone says this is not fact I know that, including the following possibilities.
Do educate together schools contain a disproportionate number of families that, do not speak English or are poorly integrated into Irish society?
Sorry for the anecdote but the mother of an Irish (mum) African (dad) child told me she is sending her kid to an educate together school as the father believes religious state schools are racist. This weird logic made me wary of educate together schools. I have also met some fairly alternative parents sending their kids to educate together schools but also completely normal people.
Any way sorry for the ramble. The SOLUTION is separate state and religeon so there are no religious schools that way we get a mix of all types of kids and families in schools.

Fighting Tao · 23-08-2018 08:26AM

Irish Kings wrote: »

Instead of a simple don't know, I got name calling, panic and diversion. Interesting responses that only raise my interest.
Sine when did you designate yourself as the representative and manger of "Everyone" ? The good old days for that type of shenanigans are over. I'll ask whatever questions I like, where I like, when I like, and I won't be forced away from doing so.

No one here knows and you still demanding a name from us. Think about that for a minute.

I didnt claim to be anything but another poster on the thread. You seem to have assigned a weird responsibility to me. Maybe you might want to think about that too.

No one is forcing you away but it is evident from replies that some are getting a bit tired of your constant demands and attempts to butt heads. If you want exact answers do and research yourself because it’s clear no one here can help. It would be nice if you come back to share your findings so we all learn something new.

work · 23-08-2018 08:33AM

I will be going to the garden of remembrance as a peaceful protest against the papal visit. Who is going? Will there be issues getting there with the policing?

I am not sure what other protests there are. The "turn our back" protest seems better as it is a general protest and not narrowed to abuse issues. Ufortunately it is also very late to organise this.

ELM327 · 23-08-2018 08:34AM

work wrote: »

We need to separate state and religeon so there is clarity and a level field in education.
By going to most state schools you get your child indoctrinated in a fake deity and lots of time wasted on this, you may believe in some higher being or beings but with zero evidence this is not something you should teach as reality. Be under no illusion on how effective this indoctrination is.
By going to an educate together you avoid this religeos cr@p but there are genuinely other concerns, and before anyone says this is not fact I know that, including the following possibilities.
Do educate together schools contain a disproportionate number of families that, do not speak English or are poorly integrated into Irish society?
Sorry for the anecdote but the mother of an Irish (mum) African (dad) child told me she is sending her kid to an educate together school as the father believes religious state schools are racist. This weird logic made me wary of educate together schools. I have also met some fairly alternative parents sending their kids to educate together schools but also completely normal people.
Any way sorry for the ramble. The SOLUTION is separate state and religeon so there are no religious schools that way we get a mix of all types of kids and families in schools.

Every school should be an educate together school.

The children could be educated like 'here is the tooth fairy, here is santa, some adults have buddah, some have jesus, some have allah etc'. Teach about all religions and none.

The days of the church ruling things are literally dying out. My generation and the next one after me have no interest in religion for the most part. The last bastion of Irish religion is the irish mammy making her children get married in a church and baptise the children. Once that irish mammy has the grand children and her original children become the irish mammy, the obligation to involve the church will be broken.

To paraphrase one of my favourite series - requiring similar suspension of disbelief as religion - "The scar of religious abuse had not pained Irish society for 19 years. All was well."

ELM327 · 23-08-2018 08:36AM

work wrote: »

I will be going to the garden of remembrance as a peaceful protest against the papal visit. Who is going? Will there be issues getting there with the policing?

I am not sure what other protests there are. The "turn our back" protest seems better as it is a general protest and not narrowed to abuse issues. Ufortunately it is also very late to organise this.

I will be going, using my pope ticket for free public transport. I will be getting a bus eireann bus to busaras (or as far as I can get in) and then walking to the garden of remembrance. I have great respect for Colm o Gorman organising this. I have met him at other events and he's really gone up in my estimation.

Sycamore Tree · 23-08-2018 09:45AM

Mattie McGrath is going to Rome today to see the pope but came on to Newstalk to give out about McAleese 'pontificating' to the people about Roman church wrongs.
McAleese is simply telling home truths but some people do not want to listen. Why?

Sycamore Tree · 23-08-2018 10:12AM

Catherine Corless on Newstalk now saying she wont go to see the pope in support of the 800 babies in the septic tank in Tuam. She said the Archbishop of Tuam never and still doesn't cooperate on the mother and baby homes investigation and vigils so why would she meet the pope.

ELM327 · 23-08-2018 10:16AM

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Mattie McGrath is going to Rome today to see the pope but came on to Newstalk to give out about McAleese 'pontificating' to the people about Roman church wrongs.
McAleese is simply telling home truths but some people do not want to listen. Why?

Denial?
In the politest way possible, lesser intelligence?

work · 23-08-2018 10:44AM

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Catherine Corless on Newstalk now saying she wont go to see the pope in support of the 800 babies in the septic tank in Tuam. She said the Archbishop of Tuam never and still doesn't cooperate on the mother and baby homes investigation and vigils so why would she meet the pope.

Good to have some attention not on his great visit as a lot of media portray it. If any other group did what the CC did they would be kicked up the arse not get Leo's red carpet

Sycamore Tree · 23-08-2018 10:48AM

work wrote: »

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Catherine Corless on Newstalk now saying she wont go to see the pope in support of the 800 babies in the septic tank in Tuam. She said the Archbishop of Tuam never and still doesn't cooperate on the mother and baby homes investigation and vigils so why would she meet the pope.

Good to have some attention not on his great visit as a lot of media portray it. If any other group did what the CC did they would be kicked up the arse not get Leo's red carpet

This pope visit actually feels like the death knell for the Roman church in Ireland. The narrative is much more about the historic and ongoing wrongdoing by the church as opposed to welcoming God's representative on Earth.

I wish he would come more often...lest we forget.

Cabaal · 23-08-2018 11:03AM

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

This pope visit actually feels like the death knell for the Roman church in Ireland. The narrative is much more about the historic and ongoing wrongdoing by the church as opposed to welcoming God's representative on Earth.

I wish he would come more often...lest we forget.

Yeah, its the last dieing actions of a organisation that once had great power,
They are desperate to seem modern, trusted and relevant

Hotblack Desiato · 23-08-2018 11:27AM

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

This pope visit actually feels like the death knell for the Roman church in Ireland.

In retrospect it was well in decline by 1979. The RCC were well aware that vocations were in steep decline and ever increasing numbers of "good catholic married couples" never mind young singles regarded catholic teaching on contraception and sexual morality in general as completely ridiculous.

Decreasing family size would only make it exponentially harder to "get" vocations in future.

Some in the RCC thought 1979 would prompt a revival, both in vocations and in the devotion of the laity. Seems to have prompted a few to throw out their diaphragm and pop out a John-Paul in 1980 all right

but little else.

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Mattie McGrath is going to Rome today to see the pope

People think it's an easy gig but there are some less pleasant duties attached

Leroy42 · 23-08-2018 11:30AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

In retrospect it was well in decline by 1979. The RCC were well aware that vocations were in steep decline and ever increasing numbers of "good catholic married couples" never mind young singles regarded catholic teaching on contraception, sex outside of marriage, etc. as completely ridiculous.

Some in the RCC thought 1979 would prompt a revival. Seems to have prompted a few to throw out their diaphragm and pop out a John-Paul in 1990 all right

That really is taking abstinence to the extreme!

lawred2 · 23-08-2018 11:30AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

In retrospect it was well in decline by 1979. The RCC were well aware that vocations were in steep decline and ever increasing numbers of "good catholic married couples" never mind young singles regarded catholic teaching on contraception, sex outside of marriage, etc. as completely ridiculous.

Some in the RCC thought 1979 would prompt a revival. Seems to have prompted a few to throw out their diaphragm and pop out a John-Paul in 1990 all right

that's a seriously long gestation period...

whisky_galore · 23-08-2018 11:36AM

pleas advice wrote: »

I think we should welcome the Pope because he's great, in fact I think we should invite BOTH Popes...,

The Pope and the Antipope?

Hotblack Desiato · 23-08-2018 11:39AM

If the pope and the anti-pope are in the same room, will they annihilate in a burst of energy?

Pints? · 23-08-2018 11:44AM

Should we protest the Popes visit? - No

Should we protest state funds being used to pay for everything around this visit? - Yes

The richest organisation in the world (the Vatican) should pay their own way.

Leroy42 · 23-08-2018 11:46AM

Pints? wrote: »

Should we protest the Popes visit? - No

Should we protest state funds being used to pay for everything around this visit? - Yes

The richest organisation in the world (the Vatican) should pay their own way.

So you think it perfectly acceptable the way continues to behave in terms of the abuse of children and the cover ups?

You think it perfectly acceptable that the CC is allowed to continue to operate against all anti-sexism laws, simply because they always have?

whisky_galore · 23-08-2018 11:58AM

Pints? wrote: »

Should we protest the Popes visit? - No

Should we protest state funds being used to pay for everything around this visit? - Yes

The richest organisation in the world (the Vatican) should pay their own way.

People are perfectly entitled to protest, I don't see why not. It's a free country.

flowers345 · 23-08-2018 12:00PM

I have seen this online

whisky_galore · 23-08-2018 12:00PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If the pope and the anti-pope are in the same room, will they annihilate in a burst of energy?

It would create a rift in the spacetime continuum and quite possibly destroy the universe.

Pints? · 23-08-2018 12:12PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

People are perfectly entitled to protest, I don't see why not. It's a free country.

I have no problem with people protesting.

Leroy42 · 23-08-2018 12:13PM

But you don't think there are valid reasons to protest the popes visit?

Pints? · 23-08-2018 12:14PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you think it perfectly acceptable the way continues to behave in terms of the abuse of children and the cover ups?

You think it perfectly acceptable that the CC is allowed to continue to operate against all anti-sexism laws, simply because they always have?

I think the people responsible for the abuse and cover ups should be brought to justice.
The people who had nothing to do with it should be allowed to have their private club.

Pints? · 23-08-2018 12:16PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

But you don't think there are valid reasons to protest the popes visit?

There are valid reasons to protest anything and everything in modern society. Doesn't mean they should be.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-08-2018 12:21PM

Pints? wrote: »

There are valid reasons to protest anything and everything in modern society. Doesn't mean they should be.

Is there a reason to protest say 'penicillin'?

Leroy42 · 23-08-2018 12:30PM

Pints? wrote: »

I think the people responsible for the abuse and cover ups should be brought to justice.
The people who had nothing to do with it should be allowed to have their private club.

Well, I think protesting to show that people are no longer willing to accept the current policies of the organisation is right.

i think it is more important given that their leader is coming over here to hold a state sponsored rally, with the clear objective of re-energising the base. Having simply that side of the story would give the impression that the country, as a whole, is happy with the current pope and the current operations of the organisation.

I don't believe that that is true. I think that a majority of people in this country, of all religions and none, would put child protections and the stopping of cover ups ahead of their membership of an organisation.

I don't believe that the majority of people in this country believe that women should be denied roles simply because of their sex. I don't believe that many in this country believe what the bible has to say about how women should behave in church.

So since it appears that leaders in the world are too slow to make this clearly known to the Pope, it is up to the people to make it known that those religious people that turn out to cheer and clap for the Pope represent only a certain part of this country and that there are people who deem some things more important their their own inability to maintain a relationship with God without being told when and what to pray, how to sit and stand, who to love and hate.

Pints? · 23-08-2018 12:30PM

Omar Orange Ignoramus wrote: »

Is there a reason to protest say 'penicillin'?

Penicillin is an antibiotic drug. Regardless of what they are they can have side effects. I wouldn't protest it but there are some who would. And as you said people have a right to protest.

Cabaal · 23-08-2018 12:38PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Some in the RCC thought 1979 would prompt a revival, both in vocations and in the devotion of the laity. Seems to have prompted a few to throw out their diaphragm and pop out a John-Paul in 1980 all right but little else.

In all honesty, whatever about 1970's or early 80's but most people now I believe would be in the view that if at say the age of 17 you decide to never have sex or be with another person man or women for the rest of your life by joining the priesthood/nuns then in all honestly you may want your head examined.

Many would view it as throwing your life away. After all, you can be a good person, do good things etc and still have sex (shock, horror).

We are social animals, its ingrained in us to have sex and seek connections with other in our species. To deny yourself such a connection for the rest of your life is rather.....I dare say unnatural.

Of course i use the word unnatural on purpose before any Catholics got outraged about me calling priests/nuns unnatural, after all its how Catholics referred to gay people so its only fair

Pints? · 23-08-2018 12:38PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I don't believe that that is true. I think that a majority of people in this country, of all religions and none, would put child protections and the stopping of cover ups ahead of their membership of an organisation

Child abuse and cover ups have nothing to do with their organisation. It's not as if you have to abuse a few kids to join. If so then I'd protest.

Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Comments