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Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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  • #1412
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    This is the oath of secrecy the child victims of paedophile priest Brendan Smyth were told to sign during their meetings with Cardinal Sean Brady 35 years ago.
    "I will never directly or indirectly, by means of a nod, or of a word, by writing, or in any other way, and under whatever type of pretext, even for the most urgent and most serious cause (even) for the purpose of a greater good, commit anything against this fidelity to the secret, unless a...dispensation has been expressly given to me by the Supreme Pontiff."

    To break the vow would lead to excommunication from the Catholic Church. The children understood this to mean they would go to hell.

    Crimen Solicitationis, the Latin for 'Crime of Solicitation', is a secret 1962 Vatican document which only came to light in recent years. It instructed bishops how to handle allegations of sex abuse against priests in their diocese and set out an oath of secrecy.

    It was only to be circulated among bishops and it demanded that all parties to an investigation keep a "perpetual silence".


  • #1413
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Perhaps if that was the intention and not the consequence of a disorganized priority list.

    I've heard it all now. The church weren't hiding these priests and their heinous crimes they just couldn't get their diary together.


  • #1414
    ygolometsipe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ygolometsipe


    Since the title has "we" in it, is this a collective decision? As in, non of us are going unless we all agree.

    Thats some conscientious protesting. :)


  • #1415
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/brady-didnt-tell-pope-of-smyth-abuse-case-26640972.html
    "Frankly I don't believe that this is a resigning matter," said Cardinal Brady. "I insist again I did act and acted effectively in that inquiry to produce the grounds for removing Fr Smyth from ministry."

    But Smyth was largely shielded from this sanction by the Abbot of Kilnacrott and continued to molest children in Belfast and in American dioceses until he was finally jailed in the mid-1990s and died behind bars.

    Just three months ago, the cardinal stated he would resign if he felt his failure to act had allowed children to be abused.

    The cardinal said he was not the designated person to report Smyth to authorities back in the 1970s.

    Colm O'Gorman, who founded support group One in Four, said the cardinal was deeply personally implicated in the gross failures of the Catholic Church in the management of Smyth and stressed he must resign.

    "They carried out an investigation, they interviewed the child victims of this priestly rapist, Sean Brady determined in his own mind that these children were telling the truth and he then simply passed the information up the line and did nothing," said Mr O'Gorman.

    "For another 18 years, as Sean Brady rose through the ranks in the Catholic Church hierarchy, Brendan Smyth continued to rape and abuse children."


  • #1416
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/colette-browne/cardinal-brady-was-silent-about-child-abuse-now-he-should-be-silenced-230625.html
    One of the teenagers, Brendan Boland, had been abused for two years. He told the inquiry about the other young victim, who was then interviewed alone. His parents were never informed.

    Mr Boland also gave the inquiry, comprised of three clerics, the names and addresses of five other children at serious risk from Smyth. A BBC documentary in 2012, The Shame of the Catholic Church, tracked those children down. Their parents were never informed. They were never warned. No one was.

    The consequence of this inaction was that two of those children continued to be abused by that monster for years. Smyth also began abusing one boy’s little sister and two of his cousins. The family was destroyed.
    Cardinal Brady has defended his actions, saying his inquiry recommended Smyth’s removal from priestly duty, but this didn’t happen. Instead, Smyth was given carte blanche to abuse children, on two continents, for another two decades. One of his US victims, lawyer Helen McGonigle, was aged six when Smyth raped and sodomised her. He also abused her sister, Kathleen. She committed suicide in 2005, unable to live any longer with what she had suffered.

    Throughout all of those years, the 20 years that Smyth was free to defile countless children, and his subsequent arrest and imprisonment, Cardinal Brady never breathed a word of what he knew. He kept silent.

    Disgusting. How can people defend this twisted organisation?


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  • #1417
    work
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    An_Toirpin said:...... There is no sitting bishop that covered up anyway in Ireland in this country.[/quote]

    You are a liar and a disgrace. You continuously make unfounded claims while assault everything others say in a very condescending manner.
    You are beyond deluded if you do not believe EVERY bishop and above know abusers and in doing nothing are complicit in the crime. The fact they are not prosecuted is a huge issue also.
    Now be gone with your forked tongue.


  • #1418
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    You are a holocaust perpetrator. Just because the slaughter of good Catholics in the street has not started yet does not nullify this stage of the life cycle of the wickedness which is beginning to unfold. The night of the long knives was the beginning of the holocaust and all because Hitler worked people up into a frenzy of hatred. Get thee hence Satan!

    Hitler eh...Satan eh....Slaughter of good Catholics eh....I think people need to understand what they're dealing with here

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105289362&postcount=167

    There is no rational argument to be had here...;)
    Old school madness.


  • #1419
    work
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Leroy42 wrote: »
    No I couldn't. There is no Plumber cult that actively seeks to cover up the crimes of its members. Or accountants, or kitchen porters.

    Just to be sure, you are aware that this is not simply because priests raped and buggered and abused children. You do understand that the CC hierarchy actively went out to cover up the crimes? Whilst of course the likes of Brendan Smyth are terrible, in isolation they are terrible events that the person must be held accountable.

    But it involved way more than that. Across the world, the CC sought to cover up, silence the victims, degrade the victims, move priests around, not tell new parishes what was coming to them etc etc etc.

    One does not need to belong to an organization in order to abuse children. A lot of priests and lay Catholics are good people who find the notion of child abuse abhorrent. Trying to label the entire Catholic Church as a pedophile ring is no different to Hitler writing Mein Kampf or Hutus going on the radio and calling Tutsis cockroaches. Such behaviour is motivated by hate and the devil is at the core of that hatred.

    The CC is a proven paedophile ring, perhaps all Nazis were not evil. Who is the devil by the way because I hate child abuse but the devil, the mythical Angel, did not appear to me to make me come to that conclusion.


  • #1420
    work
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    work wrote: »
    None of these allegations ring true. Would you ever $#@k ¥₩f, sorry for cursing but I am appalled. What planet do you live on. You are a holocoust denier because that is what this is. You are one evil person.

    You are a holocaust perpetrator. Just because the slaughter of good Catholics in the street has not started yet does not nullify this stage of the life cycle of the wickedness which is beginning to unfold. The night of the long knives was the beginning of the holocaust and all because Hitler worked people up into a frenzy of hatred. Get thee hence Satan!
    Give me strength. The victims/abused/raped are all liars and some insane dystopic parallel universe is reality with possible future crime the issue. You are a joke as are you arguements. Are you trolling for the IONA institute?


  • #1421
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    You are a holocaust perpetrator. Just because the slaughter of good Catholics in the street has not started yet does not nullify this stage of the life cycle of the wickedness which is beginning to unfold. The night of the long knives was the beginning of the holocaust and all because Hitler worked people up into a frenzy of hatred. Get thee hence Satan!

    Yeah, we won't be hearing from you for a while. Disgusting post.


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  • #1422
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    The Examiner recently mentions a group in the US (probably busy enough already over there)
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/group-publishes-list-naming-irish-clergy-convicted-of-sex-abuse-863348.html

    That have just updated their database for Ireland.
    http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Ireland/

    Only glanced at it but looks like hundreds of incidents, failures and coverups,
    not to mention lenient sentencing, scary stuff indeed.


  • #1423
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    Water John wrote: »
    Very good article in today's Irish Examiner by Fergus Finlay as to why he'll be at the Garden of Rememberance.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/fergus-finlay/instead-of-cheering-pope-in-phoenix-park-we-should-stand-with-peggy-473160.html

    This docu was on last Sat. My wife heard it in the car and switched it on in the house when she got home.

    People should note that people were not always cowed but challenged this Canon and broke into their church.
    The woman at the centre of this is still alive in a nursing home.

    That's a very sad story.
    This jumped out at me
    Not once in either of their lives did Peggy or Breda McCarthy do anything to warrant the shame heaped on them. The abuse they suffered may not have had the character of the physical, sexual and emotional abuse heaped on others.

    People may find it easy to brush off what happened Peggy and Breda because there was no (known) abuse but being alienated by the church at that time would have been extremely upsetting for them and their family and friends.
    realitykeeper wrote: »
    And that`s another thing, if I were a victim of rape or whatever, I would go tell the Gardaí. None of these allegations ring true and the utter prejudice displayed against the clergy by all levels of society reinforce the perception that this is a witch hunt.

    Really?! Because it's so simple when you're not actually a victim of rape or "whatever".
    I was abused by my brother as a child and I went to the Gardai 2 weeks ago, 22 years after the abuse. And I can tell you, even at age 31 it was fucking awful, nothing fucking easy about it.

    The thing I love about using boards on a mobile is that when you add someone to your ignore list, they disappear.


  • #1424
    DChancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭DChancer


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Fact is all well and good provided it is not twisted, distorted, contorted, magnified, misplaced, manipulated, selective, misrepresented or otherwise misconstrued. I have no doubt there are elements of truth here and there in Mein Kampf, but did that book represent truth and fact on a reasonable and unbiased basis? Hardly.

    The term witch hunt is a commonly used phrase these days but it hardly ever pertains to a witch hunt literally. If every expression were literal, there would be a lot more people literally opening cans of worms, either that or everyone would speak like a robot.

    There are none so blind as those who will not see!
    It is blindness like that displayed in this post that allowed and continues to allow the cover up of abuse, particularly against women and children by the Roman Catholic Church.


  • #1425
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,750 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    You are a holocaust perpetrator. Just because the slaughter of good Catholics in the street has not started yet does not nullify this stage of the life cycle of the wickedness which is beginning to unfold. The night of the long knives was the beginning of the holocaust and all because Hitler worked people up into a frenzy of hatred. Get thee hence Satan!

    A child rape facilitator is what you ultimately are. Blind defence and a victim complex. And a victim blamer to boot. You should be ashamed of your unchristian thoughts.


  • #1426
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Nixonbot wrote: »
    Yeah, we won't be hearing from you for a while. Disgusting post.
    Realitykeeper is a troll who has been around for a while posting nonsense that comes without any substance. Last year it was all about how the Irish economy would definitely collapse.
    They have obvious reality issues and, hard as it may be, it's best to ignore them!


  • #1427
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,144 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Here's a reminder kids, never cut your crack with communion wafers.


  • #1428
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    RealityKepper. Pope Francis only recently issues a letter where he acknowledged that the CC had let down the young. Now without getting into the self serving tone deafness of cover your arse nature of the letter itself, are you claiming that the Pope is part of this conspiracy to take down the CC, since he seems to admitting that the consensus of the CC being involved in the cover up of child abuse, rape and torture on a massive scale.

    in that case, shouldn't you be out protesting against the Pope as well?


  • #1429
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,833 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Best wishes Erica, in your quest for justice.

    BTW we'll have 2 Popes in Ireland at the weekend with Palpatine here already.


  • #1430
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Fact is all well and good provided it is not twisted, distorted, contorted, magnified, misplaced, manipulated, selective, misrepresented or otherwise misconstrued. I have no doubt there are elements of truth here and there in Mein Kampf, but did that book represent truth and fact on a reasonable and unbiased basis? Hardly.

    The term witch hunt is a commonly used phrase these days but it hardly ever pertains to a witch hunt literally. If every expression were literal, there would be a lot more people literally opening cans of worms, either that or everyone would speak like a robot.

    Sigh......
    Good job,
    You've godwinned your argument, in the most silly, conspiracy, church protecting way. Pretty pathetic.

    Nobody but the church has manipulated anything. The Vatican has for decades documented the abuses it covered up and created rules on how to cover up. Then when it went public they acted shocked.

    They still act shocked to the news in America last week.

    But they've known, they've always known. Their priority was protecting the church and it still is.
    This is a fact, unless you want to deny it?


  • #1431
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Sigh......
    Good job,
    You've godwinned your argument, in the most silly, conspiracy, church protecting way. Pretty pathetic.

    Nobody but the church has manipulated anything. The Vatican has for decades documented the abuses it covered up and created rules on how to cover up. Then what it happened they acted shocked.

    They still act shocked to the news in America last week.

    But they've known, they've always known. Their priority was protecting the church and it still is.
    This is a fact, unless you want to deny it?
    He's been banned :P


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  • #1432
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Nixonbot wrote: »
    He's been banned :P


    from the thread or for good?


  • #1433
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    from the thread or for good?

    A reasonable period.


  • #1434
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,856 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Nixonbot wrote: »
    He's been banned :P

    Please tell me there is a prison thread :D


  • #1435
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,256 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Here's a reminder kids, never cut your crack with communion wafers.

    Maybe it was that batch of extra-strength ones Waterford Whispers warned us about.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #1436
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    The stories keep coming out and yet you keep sending your kids to Catholic schools. More fool on you.


  • #1437
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Taytoland wrote: »
    The stories keep coming out and yet you keep sending your kids to Catholic schools. More fool on you.


    Most people dont have a choice. the only schools in some areas are catholic schools.


  • #1438
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,256 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    How is it the fault of parents that 90% of primary schools are controlled by the RCC? They can't all send their kids to the remaining 10% (and most of those are Church of Ireland anyway).

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #1439
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    The stories keep coming out and yet you keep sending your kids to Catholic schools. More fool on you.


    Most people dont have a choice.  the only schools in some areas are catholic schools.
    So the Catholic Church has a firm grip on the Irish state then, OK. Keep being told they don't.


  • #1440
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Taytoland wrote: »
    So the Catholic Church has a firm grip on the Irish state then, OK. Keep being told they don't.


    You seem to be arguing against a position that nobody holds.


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  • #1441
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    You seem to be arguing against a position that nobody holds.

    Taytoland is arguing from a much weirder unionist perspective on this... So it's actual bigotry factoring in rather than concern over their behaviour.


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