Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

Brian? · 21-08-2018 04:22PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually. Nope. I'm afraid that's a massive misconception.

The Papuans and various Amazonian cultures have quite clear boundaries where "nudity" comes in. It may not be immediately obvious to outsiders but they're very much present. EG in some Amazonian cultures where the women appear buck naked to Western eyes they may wear body paint and a cord belt. To the locals this means they're "dressed". If a woman was to walk out in public minus those "clothed" cultural markers she would be regarded as naked, a sexual being, even shameful. A more obvious difference would be between devout Muslims who consider a woman not wearing a headscarf to be somehow "naked" and something to be pointed at and shamed, whereas a western woman in a string bikini in her society is not seen as naked.

So this European idea of tribal innocents frolicking in a pre civilised state that became popular centuries ago is a pure invention. Pretty much the only sub section of societies anywhere that considers mixed sex nudity as fine are to be found in nudist folks in the West.

All you’ve done here is prove my point. A societies definition of what constitutes nudity is entirely subjective and not inate.

It’s a societal construct, not some instinct to hide. Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 04:22PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I’d reserve judgement on that. I’d like to hear from trans people who makes no changes to their outward appearance. I don’t even know if they exist. I’d like to know if they would want to use female changing rooms and if so why.

If they don't exist then why oh why has there been this palaver about the Gender Recognition Certificate being made available to people who do not pursue gender affirming procedures? Seems a bit excessive that groups have advocated on behalf of non existent people.

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 04:22PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I’d reserve judgement on that. I’d like to hear from trans people who makes no changes to their outward appearance. I don’t even know if they exist. I’d like to know if they would want to use female changing rooms and if so why.

And what about women who feel uncomfortable with the idea of untransitioned trans people changing in their presence? Are their feelings on the matter irrelevant, or worst, bigoted if they feel uncomfortable? Is it only the opinion of trans people that's relevant to the discussion?

vetinari · 21-08-2018 04:23PM

Exactly, some of the posters here don't seem to get that.
Discomfort is not a valid reason for discrimination.

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 04:24PM

Brian? wrote: »

All you’ve done here is prove my point. A societies definition of what constitutes nudity is entirely subjective and not inate.

It’s a societal construct, not some instinct to hide. Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

He clarified that your were wrong in your assertion that it was an oppressive religious organisational thing that shamed us out of nudity and into clothes.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 21-08-2018 04:26PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

Ah sorry, were you specifically referring to the islamic women who wanted the swim classes without the presence of men? I missed that part.

No that was me.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 04:27PM

Malayalam wrote: »

If they don't exist then why oh why has there been this palaver about the Gender Recognition Certificate being made available to people who do not pursue gender affirming procedures? Seems a bit excessive that groups have advocated on behalf of non existent people.

Do trans women who don’t have procedures usually present as outwardly Male? Short hair, no makeup, men’s clothes etc?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 04:27PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

We've a high proportion of Muslim female students in my College and the toilets were changed to gender neutral without consultation - no one thought of their feelings in this.

Wee bits of things who have only just gone from being chaperoned, to being expect to take off their headscarves in front of men. It's upsetting to them.

You want to organise he world based on what upsets people? Good luck with that.

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 04:28PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

You just keep saying you’re uncomfortable. That’s not what I asked. I’m asking what accommodations should be made for you discomfort and why does that differ from people who have discomfort surrounding gay people.

See, I guess it comes down to this - Unlike you I do not believe that people with penises that identify as women are in fact women. I guess you will have to deal with that, and it looks like I may have to deal with women with willies in the shower. Win win

21-08-2018 04:29PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don’t believe someone who has not transitioned and has made no effort to change their outward appearance would have any interest in using the female changing rooms

And if you are wrong in this belief?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 04:29PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

He clarified that your were wrong in your assertion that it was an oppressive religious organisational thing that shamed us out of nudity and into clothes.

No he didn’t.

I was talking about the way nudity is viewed in Ireland.

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 04:30PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Do trans women who don’t have procedures usually present as outwardly Male? Short hair, no makeup, men’s clothes etc?

How do I know? I haven't met every last one of them.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-08-2018 04:36PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I really don’t see the issue with a small group of people, One woman and one family, living a very niche lifestyle.

Nobody is entertaining it apart from the three adults involved.

It’s not a societal issue.

Also the pedo reference is a little silly. Not every odd behaviour around children is about having sex with them.

When it comes to your kids, you need to consider the worst case scenario though in order to protect them. An adult identifies as a child? That’s fine. They wouldn’t be allowed act that out near any child of mine.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 21-08-2018 04:36PM

Brian? wrote: »

All you’ve done here is prove my point. A societies definition of what constitutes nudity is entirely subjective and not inate.

It’s a societal construct, not some instinct to hide. Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

A pretty universal construct (in general society) is probably inate. We can’t specifically prove this because we don’t know enough about the brain, but we can examine lots of cultures.

The idea that’s it’s “Abrahamic” though is clearly false as the Romans wore clothes pre Christianity (as did many previous cultures).

It didn’t turn up with the Jews, the original Abrahamic religion. So that’s that debunked.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 21-08-2018 04:40PM

Brian? wrote: »

No he didn’t.

I was talking about the way nudity is viewed in Ireland.

?

This is what I responded to.

I know it’s not acceptable. I’m asking why though? I think I know why, but it’s a convoluted theory based on religious oppression of the masses. Mainly the Abrhamic religions

You didn’t quite explain your theory but if it’s just the Abrahamic religions you can consider that debunked.

Brian? · 21-08-2018 04:41PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

When it comes to your kids, you need to consider the worst case scenario though in order to protect them. An adult identifies as a child? That’s fine. They wouldn’t be allowed act that out near any child of mine.

Understandable.

But realistically if you Pareto out the statistics on sex offenders who target children, where do you think “strange man who pretends to be child” would stack up?

I’d hazard a guess the top categories are parents, uncles/aunts, siblings, teachers, sports coaches, priests and nuns.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 04:44PM

Brian? wrote: »

Understandable.

But realistically if you Pareto out the statistics on sex offenders who target children, where do you think “strange man who pretends to be child” would stack up?

I’d hazard a guess the top categories are parents, uncles/aunts, siblings, teachers, sports coaches, priests and nuns.

I think it makes people more comfortable to think they can spot paedophiles by odd behaviour.

Rory28 · 21-08-2018 04:50PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I think it makes people more comfortable to think they can spot paedophiles by odd behaviour.

Massive red flags about an adult who identifies as a child. If something happened it would only be the parents fault for not acknowleding that this mentally unbalanced adult should not be around kids.

I agree about the toilets/lockerroom tho. I dont think surgery is neccssary for them to use the lockerroom if they outwardly present as the gender they identify with. I think they are unneccessary surgeries as well. Why change something that is functional and healthy?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 04:54PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

?

This is what I responded to.

You didn’t quite explain your theory but if it’s just the Abrahamic religions you can consider that debunked.

I don’t think it’s just the Abrhamic religions, to be honest. But they are the religions that had the greatest effect on Ireland.

I’ve read many times about how liberal pre Christian societies were in Ireland. Women played a much bigger role in society, homosexuality was accepted and nudity wasn’t as much of a taboo.

The same can be said for pre Christian Italy and Greece. I’m unfamiliar with the details of the societies in Central Europe. The spread of Christianity can be directly correlated with the change in sexual morality. As I said, it’s a theory and it needs more work.

Compare this with non Abrhamic societies in the Far East and the America’s. These societies were far more accepting of homosexuality in particular and placed no real judgement on nudity.

fattymuatty · 21-08-2018 04:58PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Do trans women who don’t have procedures usually present as outwardly Male? Short hair, no makeup, men’s clothes etc?

Do you grade all women on what they look like or just trans women?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 04:59PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I think it makes people more comfortable to think they can spot paedophiles by odd behaviour.

I didn’t realise the statistics were actually this bleak. 80% of kids sexually abused are abused by their parents. That’s simply horrific.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/somatic-psychology/201105/who-are-the-perpetrators-child-abuse%3famp

I knew it was high, but Jesus.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 04:59PM

fattymuatty wrote: »

Do you grade all women on what they look like or just trans women?

No idea what you’re on about

pumpkin4life · 21-08-2018 05:00PM

Brian? wrote: »

Understandable.

But realistically if you Pareto out the statistics on sex offenders who target children, where do you think “strange man who pretends to be child” would stack up?

I’d hazard a guess the top categories are parents, uncles/aunts, siblings, teachers, sports coaches, priests and nuns.

Here's the setup.

We have two samples of people.

Sample one is made up of people who don't have a fetish about dressing up as a kid.

Sample two is made up of people who do have a fetish about dressing up as a kid.

You can separate these two groups out, by well, having this fetish.

So the question is that:

Given that some creep has a dressing up as a kid fetish, what is the probability that that man is going to harm the kid? Whether it is sexual abuse, mental harm, etc? We take all the people in this sample and then we apply these conditional probabilities. And furthermore, what is the probability that this guy is a creep in other ways, given that he has this fetish?

Sample one has far more people in it, but as a percentage, sample two has far more creepy cùnts in it.

The size of the group doesn't necessarily matter, because that is not the question you are asking.

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 05:06PM

Rory28 wrote: »

Massive red flags about an adult who identifies as a child. If something happened it would only be the parents fault for not acknowleding that this mentally unbalanced adult should not be around kids.

I agree about the toilets/lockerroom tho. I dont think surgery is neccssary for them to use the lockerroom if they outwardly present as the gender they identify with. I think they are unneccessary surgeries as well. Why change something that is functional and healthy?

I agree that surgery to change something functional and healthy should be unnecessary. Ditto the hormones as they atrophy healthy organs. People should try as far as possible to be comfortable in the body they have. In terms of age, ability, appearance, functionality etc

fattymuatty · 21-08-2018 05:08PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

No idea what you’re on about

Really? You do realise you have spent the last god knows how many posts talking about outward appearance. Since when does short hair, no make up and men's clothes(whatever they are?) have any bearing on anything? They certainly don't determine who is male and who is female or determine anything at all actually.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 05:21PM

fattymuatty wrote: »

Really? You do realise you have spent the last god knows how many posts talking about outward appearance. Since when does short hair, no make up and men's clothes(whatever they are?) have any bearing on anything? They certainly don't determine who is male and who is female or determine anything at all actually.

But they might influence what changing room one would want to use.

Like I said I’d be interested to hear from a trans person on these issues. I’m happy to admit I have zero idea on trans people who don’t make any changes to their outward appearance, or what changing room these trans people would want to use. I’m open minded on the issue.

Brian? · 21-08-2018 05:29PM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Here's the setup.

We have two samples of people.

Sample one is made up of people who don't have a fetish about dressing up as a kid.

Sample two is made up of people who do have a fetish about dressing up as a kid.

You can separate these two groups out, by well, having this fetish.

So the question is that:

Given that some creep has a dressing up as a kid fetish, what is the probability that that man is going to harm the kid? Whether it is sexual abuse, mental harm, etc? We take all the people in this sample and then we apply these conditional probabilities. And furthermore, what is the probability that this guy is a creep in other ways, given that he has this fetish?

Sample one has far more people in it, but as a percentage, sample two has far more creepy cùnts in it.

The size of the group doesn't necessarily matter, because that is not the question you are asking.

What evidence do you have that the “creep” group are more likely to sexually abuse children? Zero from the example above.

ceadaoin. · 21-08-2018 05:40PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

But they might influence what changing room one would want to use.

Like I said I’d be interested to hear from a trans person on these issues. I’m happy to admit I have zero idea on trans people who don’t make any changes to their outward appearance, or what changing room these trans people would want to use. I’m open minded on the issue.

There are plenty of men who would want to use the female changing rooms for nefarious reasons. How do you propose we keep women safe from these people if female spaces are no longer sex segregated and challenging or feeling uncomfortable about being naked around a biological male stranger is now "bigotry"?

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 05:41PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

There are plenty of men who would want to use the female changing rooms for nefarious reasons. How do you propose we keep women safe if female spaces are no longer sex segregated and challenging or feeling uncomfortable about being naked around a biological male stranger is now "bigotry"?

I don’t believe there are plenty of men who would want to use female changing rooms.

ceadaoin. · 21-08-2018 05:52PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don’t believe there are plenty of men who would want to use female changing rooms.

Then you are naive. Of course, the vast, vast majority of men are not creepy sex offenders but those who are will go to great lengths to have access to vulnerable women. Why make it easier for them?There have already been cases of men claiming to be trans assaulting women in shelters and prisons and commiting acts of voyeurism in changing rooms and toilets. How many of those incidents are acceptable so that someone isn't offended?

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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