Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

PlaneSpeeking · 21-08-2018 03:19PM

Brian? wrote: »

So simply reinforcing an existing taboo? Have you any suggestions on where I can read more about that.

It’s accommodating religious beliefs though.

Genesis.

Brian? · 21-08-2018 03:19PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

So ideas/beliefs which are religious should be ignored on the basis of them being religious, regardless of their merit?

Yep. That’d be great.

Not going to happen though, unfortunately.

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:20PM

Brian? wrote: »

I wasn’t the one who brought religion up.

Ah sorry, were you specifically referring to the islamic women who wanted the swim classes without the presence of men? I missed that part.

Brian? · 21-08-2018 03:20PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

There may have been more idiotic postings but

I've been a staunch advocate for LGBT rights since as long as I can recall, and going to Catholic school that was not easy.

I've seen a young woman in my College go through a painful transition, mentally; physically and emotionally painful. Her family largely disowned her. We supported her.

Where I draw the line is a person where absolutely zero physical changes have taken place declaring they are the opposite gender and demanding unsupervised access to places where

What is to stop an abusive male partner declaring as female and accessing a women's shelter ? We have already had male rapists who are still anatomically and hormonally men being placed in a women's prison.

We are sacrificing the vulnerable to be politically correct.

And anyone defending that freak who wants to dress up and have "play dates" with six year old girls ? He should be jailed and you should be ashamed.

Have you ever responded to one of my posts without a series of insults?

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:21PM

Brian? wrote: »

Yep. That’d be great.

Not going to happen though, unfortunately.

I can't tell if you're being genuine here.

Thou shalt not kill.

That came from the 10 commandments, should we disregard it?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 03:21PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

Ah sorry, were you specifically referring to the islamic women who wanted the swim classes without the presence of men? I missed that part.

Yep. That’s exactly what I was responding to.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:22PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

You keep jumping to rape.

Let's take the simple example of a man called John, who is a bit lonely and happens to be a bit of a pervert. Normally he will just stare inappropriately at women in public, but that's a bout the limit because he can't reasonably gain any other access to women.

Now, all of a sudden, when John goes to the gym, he realises he can say "hey, I identify as a woman", and have access to the women's facilities, with no questions asked.

Do you see how that might be problematic?

Mmmmm because lonely shy men are going to have the confidence to lie that they are a trans woman and brave the female changing rooms.

fattymuatty · 21-08-2018 03:23PM

Brian? wrote: »

I know it’s not acceptable. I’m asking why though? I think I know why, but it’s a convoluted theory based on religious oppression of the masses. Mainly the Abrhamic religions.

Shouldn’t it be questioned?

Something should give. Religions should no longer be accomadated in public institutions for a start.

Well personally having had my breasts stared at, my arse and more intimate parts touched by men while fully clothed in public, had a man push his erection against me on a bus whilst standing and lewd comments by men I don't much want to wander around naked in an enclosed space with men I don't know and trust.
I don't think every man is a rapist, or that there is a sexual predator around every corner I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it, I don't really understand why that needs to be questioned? Why is it such a big deal to provide a space for women, a space for men, then a space where trans and who ever else wants to share with people of the opposite sex can get changed?

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:23PM

Brian? wrote: »

Yep. That’s exactly what I was responding to.

Ah ok, fair enough.

I think the poster's point still applies, even if we take the islamic women out of the equation.

If a swimming pool wishes to offer women's only classes, should they have to accomodate someone who presents as male in all features except they say they identify as a woman?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 03:24PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

I can't tell if you're being genuine here.

Thou shalt not kill.

That came from the 10 commandments, should we disregard it?

Yes. We should make our own moral judgment on whether killing is ok. It’s not, see how easy that was.

We should ignore the existence of the bible entirely in fact. Have you read the thing? Have you read the parts that condone everything from genocide to rape?

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:24PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Mmmmm because lonely shy men are going to have the confidence to lie that they are a trans woman and brave the female changing rooms.

At this point you're being unreasonable and refusing to acknowledge the most basic realities of the situation.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:26PM

fattymuatty wrote: »

Well personally having had my breasts stared at, my arse and more intimate parts touched by men while fully clothed in public, had a man push his erection against me on a bus whilst standing and lewd comments by men I don't much want to wander around naked in an enclosed space with men I don't know and trust.
I don't think every man is a rapist, or that there is a sexual predator around every corner I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it, I don't really understand why that needs to be questioned? Why is it such a big deal to provide a space for women, a space for men, then a space where trans and who ever else wants to share with people of the opposite sex can get changed?

Should it be a space for straight men only, a space for straight women only, and a space for whatever else?

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:28PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

At this point you're being unreasonable and refusing to acknowledge the most basic realities of the situation.

No I think you are. The idea that a shy socially awkward Male who can’t really talk to women successfully is going to be comfortable going into a female changing room and undressing is the biggest load of imaginary nonsense I’ve heard.

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:29PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

No I think you are. The idea that a shy socially awkward Male who can’t really talk to women successfully is going to be comfortable going into a female changing room and undressing is the biggest load of imaginary nonsense I’ve heard.

You're arguing that zero men will ever take advantage of the idea that they can enter a women's changing room or shower unchallenged.

vetinari · 21-08-2018 03:29PM

there's always some posters who are worried about this apocalypse where men are using female changing rooms.
Yet they can never point out cases of this happening.
It's pure fearmongering. You don't like trans people, you find them creepy, we get it.
At least own your bigotry, don't dress it up as bull**** public safety.

As for the original post, Hungary is heading towards being a dictatorship. Excuse me if I don't embrace any bans that Orban puts in place.

PlaneSpeeking · 21-08-2018 03:30PM

fattymuatty wrote: »

Well personally having had my breasts stared at, my arse and more intimate parts touched by men while fully clothed in public, had a man push his erection against me on a bus whilst standing and lewd comments by men I don't much want to wander around naked in an enclosed space with men I don't know and trust.
I don't think every man is a rapist, or that there is a sexual predator around every corner I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it, I don't really understand why that needs to be questioned? Why is it such a big deal to provide a space for women, a space for men, then a space where trans and who ever else wants to share with people of the opposite sex can get changed?

The idiots who argue for things like "you must refer to HER penis" have absolutely zero idea of reality. It is quite sad.

They are sacrificing vulnerable people in their rush to be progressive.

In my gym there's a lovely wee girl, about 8 or 9 I'd say - she proudly told everyone she was old enough to use the "big girls' changing rooms". Why should she be subjected to man wandering around her ? Why should we out her in potential danger ?

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:31PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

You're arguing that zero men will ever take advantage of the idea that they can enter a women's changing room or shower unchallenged.

Nah I’m saying it’s hugely unlikely to happen and if it does will be an extreme isolated incident.

vetinari · 21-08-2018 03:32PM

More fearmongering rubbish, be worried about that girls relatives if you're talking about sexual assault.
The risk from strangers is vastly overrated when it comes to kids.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:32PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

The idiots who argue for things like "you must refer to HER penis" have absolutely zero idea of reality. It is quite sad.

They are sacrificing vulnerable people in their rush to be progressive.

In my gym there's a lovely wee girl, about 8 or 9 I'd say - she proudly told everyone she was old enough to use the "big girls' changing rooms". Why should she be subjected to man wandering around her ? Why should we out her in potential danger ?

Subjected to men wandering around her? Lol

People think I’m the man hater?

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 03:38PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Should it be a space for straight men only, a space for straight women only, and a space for whatever else?

First of all you seem to have a pronounced cognitive bias towards presuming that vast swathes of the population are shy.

Second and regarding this post, in spite of the lack of rapists and pervs you would be absolutely amazed at how many women do experience groping and perving on a daily basis. The tube in London at rush hour for example would astonish you by times, I'm thinking. And yet women and the men who are also doubtlessly groped seem to manage to keep some sort of cheerful perspective about the whole thing and not go full postal. But that does not mean that every single public space should be omnisex. If one has escaped a violent marriage, or is showering in the ladies, or is sweatily pulling on tight jeans in a dressing room, or are having a gynaecological disaster of some sort in a public toilet, why should anyone and everyone who simply identifies as your sex be entitled to come into every fecking space in the world.

PlaneSpeeking · 21-08-2018 03:40PM

Malayalam wrote: »

First of all you seem to have a pronounced cognitive bias towards presuming that vast swathes of the population are shy.

Second and regarding this post, in spite of the lack of rapists and pervs you would be absolutely amazed at how many women do experience groping and perving on a daily basis. The tube in London at rush hour for example would astonish you by times, I'm thinking. And yet women and the men who are also doubtlessly groped seem to manage to keep some sort of cheerful perspective about the whole thing and not go full postal. But that does not mean that every single public space should be omnisex. If one has escaped a violent marriage, or is showering in the ladies, or is sweatily pulling on tight jeans in a dressing room, or are having a gynaecological disaster of some sort in a public toilet, why should anyone and everyone who simply identifies as your sex be entitled to come into every fecking space in the world.

Well said Malayalam!

Why would you need a space for straight women only ? How arrogant are you to think that all other gay women fancy you ? It's like thinking all men fancy you!

One space for physical men, one for physical women where nudity is the norm.

End of.

Rory28 · 21-08-2018 03:41PM

Malayalam wrote: »

First of all you seem to have a pronounced cognitive bias towards presuming that vast swathes of the population are shy.

Second and regarding this post, in spite of the lack of rapists and pervs you would be absolutely amazed at how many women do experience groping and perving on a daily basis. The tube in London at rush hour for example would astonish you by times, I'm thinking. And yet women and the men who are also doubtlessly groped seem to manage to keep some sort of cheerful perspective about the whole thing and not go full postal. But that does not mean that every single public space should be omnisex. If one has escaped a violent marriage, or is showering in the ladies, or is sweatily pulling on tight jeans in a dressing room, or are having a gynaecological disaster of some sort in a public toilet, why should anyone and everyone who simply identifies as your sex be entitled to come into every fecking space in the world.

Dude its a toilet. Its for pissing and sh1tting. The cases you are worried about are one in a million type stuff. If they are outwardly presenting as the oppisote sex then let them at it. Just match the pic on the door to your attire and you'll be fine.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:42PM

Malayalam wrote: »

First of all you seem to have a pronounced cognitive bias towards presuming that vast swathes of the population are shy.

Second and regarding this post, in spite of the lack of rapists and pervs you would be absolutely amazed at how many women do experience groping and perving on a daily basis. The tube in London at rush hour for example would astonish you by times, I'm thinking. And yet women and the men who are also doubtlessly groped seem to manage to keep some sort of cheerful perspective about the whole thing and not go full postal. But that does not mean that every single public space should be omnisex. If one has escaped a violent marriage, or is showering in the ladies, or is sweatily pulling on tight jeans in a dressing room, or are having a gynaecological disaster of some sort in a public toilet, why should anyone and everyone who simply identifies as your sex be entitled to come into every fecking space in the world.

I don’t assume that vast swathes of the population are shy at all. Not sure where I said that or gave that impression.

So why shouldn’t gay people be excluded from spaces if perving is a concern?

fattymuatty · 21-08-2018 03:43PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Should it be a space for straight men only, a space for straight women only, and a space for whatever else?

Why?

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:45PM

By the way, I’m well aware of the sexual harrassment women face on a daily basis. I’ve posted about it numerous times.

I’ve yet to see a man claiming to be trans in a female changing room among the many #metoo experiences I’ve read though.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:46PM

fattymuatty wrote: »

Why?

If getting changed around someone that THEORETICALLY might perv on you is a major concern then isn’t there an issue with gay people changing around straight people of the same gender?

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:47PM

vetinari wrote: »

there's always some posters who are worried about this apocalypse where men are using female changing rooms.
Yet they can never point out cases of this happening.
It's pure fearmongering. You don't like trans people, you find them creepy, we get it.
At least own your bigotry, don't dress it up as bull**** public safety.

As for the original post, Hungary is heading towards being a dictatorship. Excuse me if I don't embrace any bans that Orban puts in place.

"Anyone who disagrees or has any concerns is a transphobe and a bigot."

Rory28 wrote: »

Dude its a toilet. Its for pissing and sh1tting. The cases you are worried about are one in a million type stuff. If they are outwardly presenting as the oppisote sex then let them at it. Just match the pic on the door to your attire and you'll be fine.

And if they're not presenting as the opposite sex? If they look and sound like a man, and dress like a man, and claim to identify as a woman, then what?

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 03:48PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

"Anyone who disagrees or has any concerns is a transphone and a bigot."

And if they're not presenting as the opposite sex? If they look and sound like a man, and dress like a man, and claim to identify as a woman, then what?

We can discuss that if and when it ever happens. I think we’ll be waiting a long time.

PlaneSpeeking · 21-08-2018 03:48PM

Merrick Jealous Monogamy wrote: »

"Anyone who disagrees or has any concerns is a transphone and a bigot."

And if they're not presenting as the opposite sex? If they look and sound like a man, and dress like a man, and claim to identify as a woman, then what?

Apparently to some, they're women.

We are that far down the rabbit hole and we ain't coming back sadly.

7aubzxk43m2sni · 21-08-2018 03:50PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

We can discuss that if and when it ever happens. I think we’ll be waiting a long time.

The time to discuss it is now. We don' write/ change laws and wait and see what the fallout eventually is, we consider the consequences in advance before writing them.

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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