Tax benfits for married couples vs none for cohabiting, against european law?

sexmag · 21-08-2018 12:55PM #1

Hi,

I have a question that arose from a thread i started in the tax forum.

Married couples are enititled to tax benifits when it comes to employment and income.

However more and more couples decide not to marry and cohabit (and advise welfare/revenue of this to be above board) instead but are not entitled to tax benifits as they are considered single which seems quite unfair.

A thread started a few years back stated it mihht be in contrary to a European Law, no im no expert so i thought id open it for discussion.

Is it possible that by providing tax break/benifits to married couples and not to cohabiting couples who do not wish to get married, that the government may be in contrary or against a european law?

Thanks

_Brian · 21-08-2018 12:57PM

I thought all benifits of marriage in tax affairs were done away with.

Which are you referring to ?

Doop · 21-08-2018 01:03PM

I have never understood how its a fair system. My understanding is that it was originally to facilitate the days where only one person left the household to work (ie the father).

Needless to say its more the norm now that both parents works.

Also how was this fair the gay couples prior to the marriage referendum?

Addle · 21-08-2018 01:06PM

sexmag wrote: »

However more and more couples decide not to marry and cohabit

Is this true?
Marriage is as popular as ever.

Joint Assessment can be beneficial depending on how much a married couple earn, and how their earnings are split between them.

If you want to enjoy a positive benefit of being married, then marry.

Tzardine · 21-08-2018 01:10PM

_Brian wrote: »

I thought all benifits of marriage in tax affairs were done away with.

Which are you referring to ?

They still exist - when you get married you get an increased tax credit and the ability to adjust your rate bands and potentially avoid the higher tax bracket.

I sometimes tell my wife I only married her for her tax credits :P

Spook_ie · 21-08-2018 01:12PM

Cohabitating isn't the same as Marriage or Civil Partnership, there is no need for any kind of commitment to cohabit IMO anyway

Captain Flaps · 21-08-2018 01:13PM

Addle wrote: »

Is this true?
Marriage is as popular as ever.

Joint Assessment can be beneficial depending on how much a married couple earn, and how their earnings are split between them.

If you want to enjoy a positive benefit of being married, then marry.

I just bought a gaff with my girlfriend of 7 years, we've no specific plans to marry or have kids, are we less of a couple than our married friends who chose to wed and keep renting?

GingerLily · 21-08-2018 01:14PM

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I just bought a gaff with my girlfriend of 7 years, we've no specific plans to marry or have kids, are we less of a couple than our married friends who chose to wed and keep renting?

Legally yes

Addle · 21-08-2018 01:15PM

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I just bought a gaff with my girlfriend of 7 years, we've no specific plans to marry or have kids, are we less of a couple than our married friends who chose to wed and keep renting?

You're not less of a couple, but you're not a married couple.

sexmag · 21-08-2018 01:16PM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Cohabitating isn't the same as Marriage or Civil Partnership, there is no need for any kind of commitment to cohabit IMO anyway

True but cohabiting couples live like married people,kids, mortgage etc

Many dont wish to marry for a vairety of reasons but are technically penalised by not officiating their relationship with marriage, when many would do so if it was possible to do it without being married.

Tzardine · 21-08-2018 01:20PM

Married couples also have the following benefits over those that are unmarried:

*Assets may be transferred between husband and wife without being subject to capital gains tax.
*Any capital losses made by one spouse may be used by the other spouse to reduce a capital gains tax bill.
*Any gifts or inheritances given by one spouse to another are completely free of capital acquisition tax.
*Any money received by yourself or your spouse from a life assurance policy (providing you or your spouse were the original beneficial owners) will be completely tax-free.
*Married couples do not have to pay stamp duty when they transfer assets from one to another.

wersal gummage · 21-08-2018 01:21PM

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I just bought a gaff with my girlfriend of 7 years, we've no specific plans to marry or have kids, are we less of a couple than our married friends who chose to wed and keep renting?

There's a difference, as other people have pointed out.

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect you and your girlfriend may also not be "next of kin". Hopefully it never arises, but does this raise any potential issues in a medical emergency type scenario??

lawred2 · 21-08-2018 01:23PM

sexmag wrote: »

Hi,

I have a question that arose from a thread i started in the tax forum.

Married couples are enititled to tax benifits when it comes to employment and income.

However more and more couples decide not to marry and cohabit (and advise welfare/revenue of this to be above board) instead but are not entitled to tax benifits as they are considered single which seems quite unfair.

A thread started a few years back stated it mihht be in contrary to a European Law, no im no expert so i thought id open it for discussion.

Is it possible that by providing tax break/benifits to married couples and not to cohabiting couples who do not wish to get married, that the government may be in contrary or against a european law?

Thanks

are we?

gimme gimme gimme

lawred2 · 21-08-2018 01:24PM

Tzardine wrote: »

They still exist - when you get married you get an increased tax credit and the ability to adjust your rate bands and potentially avoid the higher tax bracket.

I sometimes tell my wife I only married her for her tax credits :P

only if one of the spouses is not working and at that the working spouse is only getting their other half's personal text credit? No?

Tzardine · 21-08-2018 01:25PM

lawred2 wrote: »

only if one of the spouses is not working and at that you the working spouse is only getting their other half's personal text credit? No?

Yes this is correct, I should have been clearer.

21-08-2018 01:25PM

Seen this elsewhere

Assets may be transferred between husband and wife without being subject to capital gains tax.

Any capital losses made by one spouse may be used by the other spouse to reduce a capital gains tax bill.

Any gifts or inheritances given by one spouse to another are completely free of capital acquisition tax.

Any money received by yourself or your spouse from a life assurance policy (providing you or your spouse were the original beneficial owners) will be completely tax-free.

Married couples do not have to pay stamp duty when they transfer assets from one to another.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/marriage-has-some-very-tasty-tax-benefits-attaching-to-it-heres-how-to-claim-them-3939250-Apr2018/

troyzer · 21-08-2018 01:25PM

I don't plan on getting married with my long term partner either but from the perspective of revenue, they can't realistically open it up to anyone cohabiting.

You'd just have flat mates with no relationship claiming the tax benefits.

21-08-2018 01:28PM

The standard rate cut-off point for married couples/civil partners is €43,550 in 2018. This amount is taxed at 20% and the balance is taxed at 40%.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/taxation_of_married_people.html

Tzardine · 21-08-2018 01:32PM

RoboKlopp wrote: »

The standard rate cut-off point for married couples/civil partners is €43,550 in 2018. This amount is taxed at 20% and the balance is taxed at 40%.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/taxation_of_married_people.html

When both people are working, the standard rate cut off is €69,100, and you can distribute it in whatever ratio between the two that you like.

....... · 21-08-2018 01:34PM

wersal gummage wrote: »

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect you and your girlfriend may also not be "next of kin". Hopefully it never arises, but does this raise any potential issues in a medical emergency type scenario??

I have seen this cause issues among my own friends.

One couple who has been together for 20 years but never married and when the guy was in a terrible accident they contacted his ex wife in the UK for a decision on switching off life support as she was still legally is next of kin.

Tax/inheritance/next of kin/rights to your kids - all good reasons to get married in the society in which we live - outside of romance/making a public declaration etc...

sexmag · 21-08-2018 01:37PM

troyzer wrote: »

I don't plan on getting married with my long term partner either but from the perspective of revenue, they can't realistically open it up to anyone cohabiting.

You'd just have flat mates with no relationship claiming the tax benefits.

That of course would be a concern but there would need to be ways to prove the legtimacy of it i.e. children etc

It has only sparked my interest as my partner is not working currently as she is a full time carer to her son and her tax credits would help us termendisly but at this point in time we cannot benefit from them as we are not married but cohabiting for 5 years.

So my question was is there any European law that could be identified that may show that by allowing married couples benifit from their relationship where unmarried ones cant, that it would be a possible breach of their rights?

Tzardine · 21-08-2018 01:40PM

sexmag wrote: »

....

It has only sparked my interest as my partner is not working currently as she is a full time carer to her son and her tax credits would help us termendisly but at this point in time we cannot benefit from them as we are not married but cohabiting for 5 years.......

Why not get married quietly in the registry office. Could be done quickly without any fuss and you can reap the benefits. If your partner is not working there is the potential to have quite a few extra quid in your pocket with the credits she is not using / rate band adjustment.

troyzer · 21-08-2018 01:43PM

sexmag wrote: »

That of course would be a concern but there would need to be ways to prove the legtimacy of it i.e. children etc

It has only sparked my interest as my partner is not working currently as she is a full time carer to her son and her tax credits would help us termendisly but at this point in time we cannot benefit from them as we are not married but cohabiting for 5 years.

So my question was is there any European law that could be identified that may show that by allowing married couples benifit from their relationship where unmarried ones cant, that it would be a possible breach of their rights?

Marriage is THE way of legally legitimising your relationship. That's the whole point of marriage going back thousands of years long before it took on a religious meaning or people getting married for love.

I don't understand how it breaches anyone's rights to deny legal recognition to relationships which don't want to avail of the avenue for attaining legal recognition. Which is basically what you're saying.

lawred2 · 21-08-2018 01:47PM

sexmag wrote: »

That of course would be a concern but there would need to be ways to prove the legtimacy of it i.e. children etc

It has only sparked my interest as my partner is not working currently as she is a full time carer to her son and her tax credits would help us termendisly but at this point in time we cannot benefit from them as we are not married but cohabiting for 5 years.

So my question was is there any European law that could be identified that may show that by allowing married couples benifit from their relationship where unmarried ones cant, that it would be a possible breach of their rights?

Is there something preventing you from getting married?

Senature · 21-08-2018 01:48PM

As a person who has never been married and doesn't have children, it drives me bananas all the benefits and "special status" given to those who are parents and/or married. Why are they a more deserving citizen of benefits or favourable tax treatment than I am?!!

....... · 21-08-2018 01:49PM

sexmag wrote: »

So my question was is there any European law that could be identified that may show that by allowing married couples benifit from their relationship where unmarried ones cant, that it would be a possible breach of their rights?

If you want the benefits of marriage then you should, eh, get married.

....... · 21-08-2018 01:49PM

Senature wrote: »

As a person who has never been married and doesn't have children, it drives me bananas all the benefits and "special status" given to those who are parents and/or married. Why are they a more deserving citizen of benefits or favourable tax treatment than I am?!!

They are not.

You too, can choose to get married to a person of any gender you like.

troyzer · 21-08-2018 01:50PM

Senature wrote: »

As a person who has never been married and doesn't have children, it drives me bananas all the benefits and "special status" given to those who are parents and/or married. Why are they a more deserving citizen of benefits or favourable tax treatment than I am?!!

That's a seperate argument, one which I agree with you on. I don't mind it so much for having kids. There should be some state assistance to raising kids, it's in the interest of the state as a whole. But I don't like that just by heading down to the registry office I can save a few quid on tax every year.

lawred2 · 21-08-2018 01:51PM

Senature wrote: »

As a person who has never been married and doesn't have children, it drives me bananas all the benefits and "special status" given to those who are parents and/or married. Why are they a more deserving citizen of benefits or favourable tax treatment than I am?!!

lol

well they are in general bringing the next generation of taxpayers in to the world..

the ones that will ultimately be contributing to your pension, travel pass, health care etc etc when you're all old and bitter and waving your stick at whomever looks at you..

sexmag · 21-08-2018 01:55PM

lawred2 wrote: »

Is there something preventing you from getting married?

Well at this point in time just for arguments sake our finances are severly stretched that we do not have 200 euro to pay the register to get married, tax benifits applied to me from her may have afforded us the option to get married but right now its out of reach

dudara · 21-08-2018 01:56PM

Revenue assess a couple separately until they are married. However, the DEASP (social welfare) will assess couples as a unit. I don’t understand how two different government bodies can have different approaches.

Tax benfits for married couples vs none for cohabiting, against european law?

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