Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

LLMMLL · 20-08-2018 09:10PM

Malayalam wrote: »

Transablism, transagism, transspeciesm, transethnicism (excuse spellings) may be the weird, embarrassing, woo end of things but along with gender studies they contribute as a minority to the debates around identity politics and people in that domain are going to have to do a bit better than yeah, yeah, nothing to do with us when it comes to dealing with the contradictions those identifications pose for you.

Right so you ignore the multiple times I’ve highlighted the differences between Otherkin etc. And trans issues (other than to say it’s just my opinion - ok) and now expect us to be embarrassed by the existence of these identities groups?

Sorry but that doesn’t hold any water.

Annasopra · 20-08-2018 09:14PM

Malayalam wrote: »

Transablism, transagism, transspeciesm, transethnicism (excuse spellings) may be the weird, embarrassing, woo end of things but along with gender studies they contribute as a minority to the debates around identity politics and people in that domain are going to have to do a bit better than yeah, yeah, nothing to do with us when it comes to dealing with the contradictions those identifications pose for you.

Jaysus. I didnt know there were serious debates in this country about men marrying horses.

Malayalam · 20-08-2018 09:23PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Right so you ignore the multiple times I’ve highlighted the differences between Otherkin etc. And trans issues (other than to say it’s just my opinion - ok) and now expect us to be embarrassed by the existence of these identities groups?

Sorry but that doesn’t hold any water.

Actually you compared trans species identified people to cross dressers in terms of experience and cross dressers / transvestites are identity groups under the lgbtq umbrella thus using your own logic I don't understand how they would be so different and not come in to identity politics as a group deserving of equal rights

20-08-2018 09:27PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Jaysus. I didnt know there were serious debates in this country about men marrying horses.

You've obviously never seen this documentary;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8

Malayalam · 20-08-2018 09:27PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Jaysus. I didnt know there were serious debates in this country about men marrying horses.

Your reply doesn't relate to the post quoted but at least you get another crack at your horse joke

LLMMLL · 20-08-2018 09:34PM

Malayalam wrote: »

Actually you compared trans species identified people to cross dressers in terms of experience and cross dressers / transvestites are identity groups under the lgbtq umbrella thus using your own logic I don't understand how they would be so different and not come in to identity politics as a group deserving of equal rights

What equal rights have been demanded for cross dressers?

Wibbs · 20-08-2018 09:43PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I think this is the most whataboutery argument I’ve ever seen.

If it is then you mustn't get out much.

Though I would 100% agree transsexuality is very different to "otherkin" type stuff. The latter is a "fetish" and one that is and can be put on and off at will. Transgender individuals have a brain that's more hardwired towards the opposite gender to their physical and genetic gender. A few studies seem to indicate this. IE male to female Trans folks have more "feminised" brains as it were. There appears to be a subtle sliding scale of "hard" male to female brains. A fault in genetics and in utero hormone exposure levels appears to play a part. In very simple terms they're literally a "woman's brain" trapped in a man's body and vice versa. I don't doubt that with some it's a fetish, or some where they're Gay, but considering the static and hardship coming out as a Transexual attracts IMHO they're by far the minority. Unlike a fetish they can't take it on and off like a coat.

With the dressing as a six year old individual, that's a fetish and one that really doesn't need to be around young kids. It would the exact same if it were a middle aged man who dressed as a six year old boy. Indeed I suspect there would be far less "acceptance" from the progressive types if it were(even if it were a middle aged woman). The Trans aspect throws them off what is a well creepy bloody fetish.

LLMMLL · 20-08-2018 09:48PM

Wibbs wrote: »

If it is then you mustn't get out much.

Though I would 100% agree transsexuality is very different to "otherkin" type stuff. The latter is a "fetish" and one that is and can be put on and off at will. Transgender individuals have a brain that's more hardwired towards the opposite gender to their physical and genetic gender. A few studies seem to indicate this. IE male to female Trans folks have more "feminised" brains as it were. There appears to be a subtle sliding scale of "hard" male to female brains. A fault in genetics and in utero hormone exposure levels appears to play a part. In very simple terms they're literally a "woman's brain" trapped in a man's body and vice versa. I don't doubt that with some it's a fetish, or some where they're Gay, but considering the static and hardship coming out as a Transexual attracts IMHO they're by far the minority. Unlike a fetish they can't take it on and off like a coat.

With the dressing as a six year old individual, that's a fetish and one that really doesn't need to be around young kids. It would the exact same if it were a middle aged man who dressed as a six year old boy. Indeed I suspect there would be far less "acceptance" from the progressive types if it were(even if it were a middle aged woman). The Trans aspect throws them off what is a well creepy bloody fetish.

Mostly agree with your post.

I don’t think the 6 year old element is a fetish though unless there’s some details I’ve missed.

In the interview I saw she did talk about having sex with men but as far as I saw didn’t mention the 6 year old persona as part of that.

If you are correct and it is a fetish I would 100% agree that she should not be engaging with a child as part of that fetish.

If it’s a non sexual form of stress relief or a way to deal with anxiety then sure it’s very odd but up to the parents whether they allow this woman to play with their child.

Wibbs · 20-08-2018 10:18PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don’t think the 6 year old element is a fetish though unless there’s some details I’ve missed.

What else can it be LL? It's either a fetish or a mental illness/condition from what I can see..

If you are correct and it is a fetish I would 100% agree that she should not be engaging with a child as part of that fetish.

If it’s a non sexual form of stress relief or a way to deal with anxiety then sure it’s very odd but up to the parents whether they allow this woman to play with their child.

Personally I find an adult using a child or children in such a manner as "stress relief" to be more than a bit "odd". For me it's well into the land of Creepyasfuck. Other self deluded "adults" who consider this OK for their child to be around need a word in their shell like. And I'm being kind there. Stress relief is meditation, playing golf, going fishing, knitting, reading a book and so forth. It is not, nor should be foisting oneself as a outwardly presenting middle aged bloke in a dress on small children. If they're in such need of stress relief then visit a qualified psychiatrist(not some "counsellor" who thinks "crystal healing" is a thing) and look to other avenues.

pleas advice · 20-08-2018 10:23PM

a blunt quote from a well researched article on the case
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/transwoman-stefonknee-wolscht-lives-life-as-a-six-year-old-girl/

“I felt like a woman!” reports Stefonknee of his “adopted dad’s” penis inserted man-on-man into his “six year old girl” rectum at the Oasis swingers club. “I was surprised I didn’t think I was going to be pregnant, I was so much a girl. I actually have an erection right now from it so I’m just going to pull my dress down a little bit,” he told the journalists who were covering his journey to girlhood.

LLMMLL · 20-08-2018 10:38PM

Wibbs wrote: »

What else can it be LL? It's either a fetish or a mental illness/condition from what I can see..

I’m guessing you know a little about mental illness and know that there are conditions that must be met before the term can be applied. For example, many have symptoms of OCD but wouldn’t be diagnosed unless the symptoms significantly interfere with their lives.

I’d say whether this could really be called a mental illness would depend on many things we just don’t know. Is it compulsive? What happens if she is prevented from playing with children? Etc.

Personally I find an adult using a child or children in such a manner as "stress relief" to be more than a bit "odd". For me it's well into the land of Creepyasfuck. Other self deluded "adults" who consider this OK for their child to be around need a word in their shell like. And I'm being kind there. Stress relief is meditation, playing golf, going fishing, knitting, reading a book and so forth. It is not, nor should be foisting oneself as a outwardly presenting middle aged bloke in a dress on small children. If they're in such need of stress relief then visit a qualified psychiatrist(not some "counsellor" who thinks "crystal healing" is a thing) and look to other avenues.

I guess this is down to personal difference. I see lots of situations involving kids where they’re not being harmed but I personally wouldn’t do with my kids if I had any. I see this being done on both the liberal and conservative ends of the scale. I see mild and extreme examples. I just don’t find it something to get particularly incensed about.

For example, the American guy on Henry st who has his ten kids dressed up in Amish-type clothes preaching about our sinful modern existence. Not the way I’d raise my kids but without strong evidence that they’d be better off in foster care then it wouldn’t hugely bother me.

And it’s definitely not indicative of some slippery slope “religious people are going too far” guff, just like this isolated 6 year old girl case isn’t indicative of “progressives going too far”.

LLMMLL · 20-08-2018 10:40PM

pleas advice wrote: »

a blunt quote from a well researched article on the case
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/transwoman-stefonknee-wolscht-lives-life-as-a-six-year-old-girl/

Fair enough. I’d agree she shouldn’t be playing with kids while engaging in a fetish.

Nothing to do with trans people though.

20-08-2018 10:53PM

pleas advice wrote: »

“I felt like a woman!” reports Stefonknee of his “adopted dad’s” penis inserted man-on-man into his “six year old girl” rectum at the Oasis swingers club. “I was surprised I didn’t think I was going to be pregnant, I was so much a girl. I actually have an erection right now from it so I’m just going to pull my dress down a little bit,” he told the journalists who were covering his journey to girlhood.

The most offensive part about this post isn't Dad's penis going into this one's six year old rectum or that he/she had to hide an erection under the dress. It's the spelling of 'Stefonknee'.

20-08-2018 10:54PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Fair enough. I’d agree she shouldn’t be playing with kids while engaging in a fetish.

Nothing to do with trans people though.

This thing is an absolute freak.

fattymuatty · 20-08-2018 11:50PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Both cis women and trans women should be able to use women’s changing rooms. Basically women should be able to use women’s changing rooms.

You didn't answer my question though, what is a woman? What definition are you using when you say women should be able to use womens changing rooms? You are obviously using a different one than the one I know so I am curious what that is?

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 12:17AM

fattymuatty wrote: »

You didn't answer my question though, what is a woman? What definition are you using when you say women should be able to use womens changing rooms? You are obviously using a different one than the one I know so I am curious what that is?

Trans women and cis women.

Irish Kings · 21-08-2018 12:21AM

Gender politics has one aim, to divide ordinary people, even further apart, and keep them divided.
So while the easily led all end up arguing about what sign's should go on toilet doors, the powers that be can continue to screw them over financially, and keep them distracted, divided and conquered.

pleas advice · 21-08-2018 01:50AM

Omackeral wrote: »

The most offensive part about this post isn't Dad's penis going into this one's six year old rectum or that he/she had to hide an erection under the dress. It's the spelling of 'Stefonknee'.

Stefonknee, pronounced 'Setf-on-knee', as was helpfully pointed out in one of the articles i read

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 02:15AM

Bootlegger wrote: »

A what point is a 'trans woman' allowed into female spaces? After surgery? Or can a man announce he is a woman and demand access to female spaces?

A trans woman is a woman and is not a man announcing he’s a woman.

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 05:18AM

LLMMLL wrote: »

A trans woman is a woman and is not a man announcing he’s a woman.

Okay, say I accept wholly your definition of a transwoman as a woman. Fair enough.

That definition must include self identifying women who have not pursued any gender affriming hormone treatment or surgery, ie they are a woman but with fully intact primary and secondary sexual characteristics of the male.

Do you genuinely see absolutely zero issues with this woman who has fully functioning male genitalia and hormonal profile

-sharing rooms with females in battered women refuges
-doing their time in women's prison
-using showers and changing facilities in ladies and girls changing rooms
-sharing space in designated all female dormitories in hostels, boarding schools or hospitals

Do you genuinely see no problem?

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 05:41AM

LLMMLL wrote: »

A trans woman is a woman and is not a man announcing he’s a woman.

Again, sticking with your definition of terms, this image linked is of a man.

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/evan-hempel-transgender-pregnancy-elinor-carucci-3.jpg?w=720&quality=85

This man chest feeding his child poses some issues for me. For example the child is going to grow up and become aware at some point of the widely publicised pictures of them being chest fed in what are still very unusual circumstances in society as it is. I think this is an invasion of the child's privacy and likely to pose risk for them in later life in terms of bullying, for example. Also another problem for me is that the man chest feeding has obviously at some point been using cross sex hormones - yes, perhaps a lower dose or temporarily suspended dose in order to have maintained pregnancy and lactation - but nonetheless since they are maintaining the secondary sexual characteristics of the male (beard, increased body hair), is that child consuming residual hormones via milk?

Ulysses Gaze · 21-08-2018 09:26AM

LLMMLL wrote: »

A trans woman is a woman and is not a man announcing he’s a woman.

What if someone is Gender fluid?

Brian? · 21-08-2018 10:11AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

What if someone is Gender fluid?

Gender fluid people are not trans.

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 10:18AM

Brian? wrote: »

Gender fluid people are not trans.

Gender fluidity is the ability to freely and knowingly become one or many of a limitless number of genders, for any length of time, at any rate of change. Gender fluidity recognizes no borders or rules of gender. —Kate Bornstein, Gender Outlaw: On Men, Women and the Rest of Us, 1994

So are they intermittently a man, a woman (or neither or both), at any given time for a certain period of time? If they are identifying periodically as a woman, then according to the logic in that moment they are actually in truth and reality a woman. And when they flow to identifying periodically as a man, then according to the logic they must for the duration of that identity be in reality a man.

Ulysses Gaze · 21-08-2018 10:26AM

Brian? wrote: »

Gender fluid people are not trans.

They can identify as a woman and therefore it would be discriminatory to exclude them from women's restrooms.

Surely?

cantdecide · 21-08-2018 10:30AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

They can identify as a woman and therefore it would be discriminatory to exclude them from women's restrooms.

Surely?

Don't call me Shirley. I'm only Shirley on Thursdays and Saturdays.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 21-08-2018 10:31AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

What if someone is Gender fluid?

There’s no such thing. You’re either one or the other. Gender fluid is just some ridiculous term coined up to describe attention seekers who like to be different purely for the sake of it.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 12:46PM

Malayalam wrote: »

Okay, say I accept wholly your definition of a transwoman as a woman. Fair enough.

That definition must include self identifying women who have not pursued any gender affriming hormone treatment or surgery, ie they are a woman but with fully intact primary and secondary sexual characteristics of the male.

Do you genuinely see absolutely zero issues with this woman who has fully functioning male genitalia and hormonal profile

-sharing rooms with females in battered women refuges
-doing their time in women's prison
-using showers and changing facilities in ladies and girls changing rooms
-sharing space in designated all female dormitories in hostels, boarding schools or hospitals

Do you genuinely see no problem?

Depends what you mean by problem.

I can imagine some cis men or women being unhappy at sharing their space with a trans person and making problems. That doesn’t change that trans women should be able to use women’s changing rooms and trans men should be able to use men’s.

LLMMLL · 21-08-2018 12:54PM

Bootlegger wrote: »

Yoy dogged my question. I'm asking at what point does it become acceptable for a trans woman to use female only spaces?

After surgery? During transitioning? Or is no feminie appearance required? I.e. they can just walk in and to everyone else they appear as a man?

I wouldn’t be policing it, demanding that a trans person be “convincing” enough before access granted.

I don’t believe for a second that a trans person who was happy to make no effort at transitioning in some way would want to use the female changing rooms anyway so it’s a nonissue.

Malayalam · 21-08-2018 01:05PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Depends what you mean by problem.

I can imagine some cis men or women being unhappy at sharing their space with a trans person and making problems. That doesn’t change that trans women should be able to use women’s changing rooms and trans men should be able to use men’s.

Being ''unhappy'' and ''making problems''? How about being actively endangered?? Like if a sex offender with fully intact male genitalia who identifies as a woman is incarcerated in a women's prison?

In the same vein I would suggest that a person who identifies as male but who is fully presenting as a female should probably not make a habit out of using the male showers in the gym/pool, or opt for incarceration in the male prison.

Fecksake, being ''unhappy'' and ''making problems''. Some women shower nude after swimming in the ladies changing room, if i ever look over and see hairy male tackle attached to the lady under the spout beside me and small girls waiting in line to use the shower, i will be slightly more that ''unhappy'' I can tell you, and ''making problems'' would be the least of my concerns.

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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