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Who is at fault here?

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13567…13

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    #62
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Akrasia wrote: »
    You want cars stopping in the middle of busy roundabouts???

    They're top drivers. They welcome the unexpected event of other drivers not being able to use roundabouts so they can do skillz, unlike other mortals


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    #63
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    I didn't say I would do that. I wouldn't have much choice but brake on the middle of a busy roundabout or avoid them, would I?

    Don't, however, pass off the other car not being able to use a roundabout as solely the responsibility of other drivers and their willingness to put themselves in danger to compensate.

    The question was who was in the wrong and the answer is the red car.
    The question was who would be at fault in the event of a collision. That's the car that left their lane just because they were in the 'right'.

    You don't drive in accordance to where other traffic should be, you drive in accordance to where it actually is.


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    #64
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Akrasia wrote: »
    You want cars stopping in the middle of busy roundabouts???

    What do you do when other traffic stops?


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    #65
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    GhostyMcGhost wrote: »
    Hi All

    Sorry for the crude drawing.

    In the below scenario, there is a roundabout which essentially just for calming. In this situation, there are 2 lanes leading up to the roundabout and 2 lanes at the only exit (12 midnight)

    There are no directional arrows marked on the road, only 2 yield markings in each lane. Its marked as 2 lanes (i.e not a single lane with double queueing)

    If the red car, on the outside lane, turns right to go back around the roundabout (and back to where they started, no other exits) and the blue car, on inside lane is continuing straight.... In your opinion, who is at fault for the below scenario? The red or blue car?


    Screen_Shot_2018_08_20_at_22_58_22.png

    quite clearly the red car

    even without laws - common sense would tell you so. That's an illogical means by which to exit a roundabout to the right.


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    #66
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    lawred2 wrote: »
    quite clearly the red car

    even without laws - common sense would tell you so. That's an illogical means by which to exit a roundabout to the right.

    Common sense tells you to drive into another car because you're 'right' and they're 'wrong'?

    Sigh.


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    #67
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,313 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    What do you do when other traffic stops?

    OK, I know there are all kinds of different roundabouts, some have traffic lights, some have pedestrian crossings, some are slow moving intersections, but in the OP style roundabout, stopping suddenly on the inside lane would be an emergency maneuver, is not what the vast majority of other road users would be expecting and would not be needed if the red car was in the correct lane to start with


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    #68
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Common sense tells you to drive into another car because you're 'right' and they're 'wrong'?

    Sigh.

    wtf... where did I write that?

    Have you comprehension problems?


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    #69
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,313 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Common sense tells you to drive into another car because you're 'right' and they're 'wrong'?

    Sigh.

    Nobody is saying that. Obviously the blue car and red car didn't see each other in time to avoid the collision. If the red car was in the right lane, the collision wouldn't have happened. If the red car had anticipated the blue car making a perfectly reasonably manoeuvre the collision wouldn't have happened.

    The Blue car would have presumed that the red car was exiting the motorway on the inside lane of the first exit as it indicated it would be doing by the lane it was in.

    If a driver signals his intention and then does something different, that is a major cause of accidents.


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    #70
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Akrasia wrote: »
    OK, I know there are all kinds of different roundabouts, some have traffic lights, some have pedestrian crossings, some are slow moving intersections, but in the OP style roundabout, stopping suddenly on the inside lane would be an emergency maneuver, is not what the vast majority of other road users would be expecting and would not be needed if the red car was in the correct lane to start with

    Of course it wouldn't be needed if the red car was in the correct lane. But the red car is where it is, and as for following traffic, do you not think they will have to perform any sudden changes in direction or momentum when traffic in front of them collide?

    The vast amount of road users not expecting things is what gets us here in the first place.


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    #71
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Nobody is saying that. Obviously the blue car and red car didn't see each other in time to avoid the collision. If the red car was in the right lane, the collision wouldn't have happened. If the red car had anticipated the blue car making a perfectly reasonably manoeuvre the collision wouldn't have happened.

    The Blue car would have presumedthat the red car was exiting the motorway on the inside lane of the first exit as it indicated it would be doing by the lane it was in.

    If a driver signals his intention and then does something different, that is a major cause of accidents.

    One word in your reply says it all.

    Presume nothing.


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    #72
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    One word in your reply says it all.

    Presume nothing.

    the question in the OP was who was at fault.. and pretty much the red car was at fault

    now indeed everyone should be out on the road presuming nothing but expecting other drivers to do the wrong thing every time but that's more general cautionary advice really.. and not really specific to the OP's question


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    #73
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    lawred2 wrote: »
    wtf... where did I write that?

    Have you comprehension problems?

    It's right there in your reply, you think the blue car was right to leave its lane and hit the red car because it was following the proper procedures on the roundabout.


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    #74
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    Red is at fault, they are in the wrong lane. If going past 12 o’clock you should be in the right hand lane.


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    #75
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,313 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    One word in your reply says it all.

    Presume nothing.

    Bollox. You have to make judgements all the time when driving. You presume things but be prepared to react if things change.

    When a driver indicates left other drivers presume that driver is about to turn left. If he doesn't turn left other drivers presume he's an idiot or drunk and give him a wide berth


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    #76
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    One word in your reply says it all.

    Presume nothing.

    You have to presume that others will mostly obey the rules of the road otherwise your won't be able to go anywhere.

    Do you pull in every time you meet sometime coming in the opposite direction, or do you presume they are going to stay on their side road and continue on?


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    #77
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Bollox. You have to make judgements all the time when driving. You presume things but be prepared to react if things change.

    When a driver indicates left other drivers presume that driver is about to turn left. If he doesn't turn left other drivers presume he's an idiot or drunk and give him a wide berth

    You don't presume. You anticipate.


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    #78
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    It's right there in your reply, you think the blue car was right to leave its lane and hit the red car because it was following the proper procedures on the roundabout.

    if you're content with that interpretation then fine...


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    #79
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    You have to presume that others will mostly obey the rules of the road otherwise your won't be able to go anywhere.

    Do you pull in every time you meet sometime coming in the opposite direction, or do you presume they are going to stay on their side road and continue on?
    You anticipate that they will. You done presume anything on the roads.


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    #80
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    You don't presume. You anticipate.

    Is that a line from the karate kid?


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    #81
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Is that a line from the karate kid?

    It's from years of experience.


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    #82
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    It's from years of experience.

    haven't seen that one


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    #83
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    You anticipate that they will. You done presume anything on the roads.

    Same thing. You expect other road users to behave in a certain way from their road position, speed, heading and indication. If you can't presume this then you can't go anywhere.


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    #84
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    This is one of the accidents that the insurance companies love. They will put it down to a 50/50 and gouge both drivers for increased premiums and hammer both ncd's.


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    #85
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Same thing. You expect other road users to behave in a certain way from their road position, speed, heading and indication. If you can't presume this then you can't go anywhere.

    You don't expect, you don't presume, you don't assume. You can only control the vehicle that you are driving. You do that do the best of your ability and you stay alert to the possibility of others not doing the same.


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    #86
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    RustyNut wrote: »
    This is one of the accidents that the insurance companies love. They will put it down to a 50/50 and gouge both drivers for increased premiums and hammer both ncd's.

    Indeed. One for breaking the rules and the other for not paying attention to the other person breaking the rules.


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    #87
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    You don't expect, you don't presume, you don't assume. You can only control the vehicle that you are driving. You do that do the best of your ability and you stay alert to the possibility of others not doing the same.

    I suppose you'll be pulling in and stopping when you meet a car coming towards you on the other some of the road from now on since you can't expect or presume they will stay on their own side.:rolleyes:

    A particularly common cause of accidents is when people don't behave as expected.


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Red is in wrong lane, and is wrong. Blue should not cross the lane, but should go round again. Blue is wrong.

    Red is more wrong by forcing a situation, but both are wrong.


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    #89
    Fieldsman
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭Fieldsman


    As someone said why is this a query. The red car is wrong, The blue car can be in the right hand lane if going straight ahead or third exit


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    #90
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    And yet another motor thread on a simple question about fault has to turn in to a pissing contest for people where the motoring fault of others don't exist save as a means to blow your trumpet about whether or not you have the Right Stuff as a driver to deal with it.

    Because you know, identifying a fault means you never try to anticipate them as a driver or maybe just plough into the person committing it.


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    #91
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Red is wrong all day long.

    Why is this even a question?

    Ah here

    There are people on the internet who just look for an argument.

    8 pages!!


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