Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

1151618202142

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,388 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Agreed. And there should be a third option, unisex or whatever you want to call it, for those people who don't care. If transgender people want to mix freely, fine, but the opinions of those who don't should also be respected.

    Frankly, this mad rush to make everything open and available makes little sense to me. It's not as if the Transgender situation was commonplace or that we already had a few decades to get used to the idea. Instead, it's here (in minor numbers) and we must all bend over backwards to immediately accept them. No consideration for them accepting our own preference not to, of course. Instead, anyone that admits any hesitation to immediately agree is being unreasonable and discriminatory.

    I'm curious. Has there been any research into the opinions of women as to whether they're willing to share their changing rooms, or shower spaces with men? After all, a change in gender doesn't automatically change sexual orientation or the thoughts of the people themselves. Have we seen any evidence to show that women will want to share their private areas? (considering the rise of private or safe spaces where men are not allowed, it seems strange that Transgender people would be an acceptable alternative)

    I don't think regular everyday women have been consulted


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This may come as a shock to you, but someone thinking of the children is not always a lazy internet meme masquerading as an argument.

    Not always. But it is in this case as you’re refusing to qualify your objection in any way.

    As if this requires logic... A middle aged person in a child's dress pretending to be a six year old as a "lifestyle choice" is one thing. At best it's a fetish and fine, so long as you keep the hell away from me, because there's only so much creepy weirdo I can absorb. However when you're introducing young children to this nonsense it quite reasonably asks the question of WTF?

    Let's take it from another angle.. Would you have any objections to this person identifying as a small child and having play dates with other small children?

    1411291097234_wps_5_https_www_facebook_com_pa.jpg

    Maybe you wouldn't, but again I return to my previous position of not knowing what the hell to say to you. Maybe I'm the one on the crazy pills here, because it seems bloody obvious.

    Right so. You’re going to point blank refuse to answer the question and try the normal diversionary tactics, with a picture of a gimp to add to extra spice.

    In this instance an exchange of ideas seems impossible.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Omackeral wrote: »
    This, for once, literally applies. I hope to god someone is thinking of the children. A 52 year old wants to play with 6 year old little girls on ''play-dates''? That's nice and normal yep. Fcuking hell.

    Who said it was normal?

    I’m asking for specific objections. I want to understand specifics so I can form cogent responses. All I’m getting is emotive responses.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭fattymuatty


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Yes trans women should be able to use women’s changing rooms and trans men should be able to use men’s changing rooms.

    You say this and then you agree that women should use women and men should use mens. What is your definition of a woman and a man?


  • Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The mind boggles..


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Brian? wrote: »
    Who said it was normal?

    I’m asking for specific objections. I want to understand specifics so I can form cogent responses. All I’m getting is emotive responses.

    Besides the obvious child endangerment (if you don't think it's endangerment then maybe set up some playdates for your kids with him/her/baby (actually don't). This guy 'living his life' involves absolutely no thought for the lives of his family members, maybe his wife wants to live a life where her husband doesn't need to act like a 6 year old girl and hence leave them. Maybe his children want to live a life where their father is more mature than them and can lead by example. 'Kids don't go to college, stay in playschool forever, whatever makes you happiest'

    Is there a limit to open-mindedness for you? Is doing whatever you want the ultimate?
    Is there a point where you say 'maybe some norms and responsibilities are more important than boundless free expression'?


  • Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    Who said it was normal?

    I’m asking for specific objections. I want to understand specifics so I can form cogent responses. All I’m getting is emotive responses.

    Specific objections as to why a 52 year old should be let to play with a group of 6 year old little girls on a ''play date''? Let me ask you a question. Would you be ok if your daughter was included in that ''play date''? I know you said something about emotive responses but let's just be real for a second and non rhetorical. Would you let your daughter into a play date with this individual. Would you be comfortable with it?

    A simple yes or no.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Bootlegger wrote: »
    You disgust me.

    So hang on - you want trans men to go into womens toilets and trans women to go into mens toilets?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Specific objections as to why a 52 year old should be let to play with a group of 6 year old little girls on a ''play date''? Let me ask you a question. Would you be ok if your daughter was included in that ''play date''? I know you said something about emotive responses but let's just be real for a second and non rhetorical. Would you let your daughter into a play date with this individual. Would you be comfortable with it?

    A simple yes or no.

    Hold on there. I asked first. I want an answer. You can’t simply attempt to circumvent the question I asked in order to try and win an argument.

    I want know peoples actual objections. Saying “it’s obvious” isn’t an answer.

    Is it because of the risk of sexual abuse? Is it the example being set? Is it the risk of physical harm?

    What is it?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Besides the obvious child endangerment (if you don't think it's endangerment then maybe set up some playdates for your kids with him/her/baby (actually don't). This guy 'living his life' involves absolutely no thought for the lives of his family members, maybe his wife wants to live a life where her husband doesn't need to act like a 6 year old girl and hence leave them. Maybe his children want to live a life where their father is more mature than them and can lead by example. 'Kids don't go to college, stay in playschool forever, whatever makes you happiest'

    Is there a limit to open-mindedness for you? Is doing whatever you want the ultimate?
    Is there a point where you say 'maybe some norms and responsibilities are more important than boundless free expression'?

    You think there’s a risk of child endangerment? Ok, why do you think that?

    I’m not defending this guys lifestyle, I’ve already said it’s ridiculous.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Right so. You’re going to point blank refuse to answer the question and try the normal diversionary tactics, with a picture of a gimp to add to extra spice.

    In this instance an exchange of ideas seems impossible.
    Oh I suspect you're right there. Especially when you ignore my question. And no it's not a "diversionary tactic". Why can't you answer the question? And as for extra spice? A gimp is basic Tesco paprika compared to the Ghost pepper of a middle aged person, ex husband and father of seven kids, now identifying as a woman while also identifying as a six year old girl.

    And for clarity I consider some yahoo getting his or her jollies trussed up in a latex gimp suit in the same breath as some yahoo dressing in a little girl costume "identifying" as a six year old. I would be far happier about the gimp TBH, as at least they're parading their fetish around similarly inclined adults. They're not sitting down for a kids "play date". Can you tell the difference between those yet, or again would you be happy with a gimp having a play date with your kids? If not, why not? If so, why?
    Is it because of the risk of sexual abuse? Is it the example being set? Is it the risk of physical harm?
    Jesus. Do you really think six year old kids should be exposed to a grown arsed person dressed as another six year old? Do you not think this may be just a tad confusing for them? Never mind whatever bloody weird motives that an adult would have for choosing to act like that. Around kids.
    Omackeral wrote: »

    A simple yes or no.
    Good luck with that O. The poster among a few other souls are so far down the rabbit hole of "progressive" thought they can't wriggle out and instead fall back on accusing others of deflection with no trace of atomic powered irony while doing so. You couldn't make up this level of self delusion. Oh wait...

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    is this the guy who lives with another family as a little girl, and has a 'relationship' with the husband. Or is it another case?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Thomas_IV wrote: »
    I presume that you've read the whole Content of this article as you agree with all what is written there. Well, I strongly disagree with you and the Orban Regime. That is because of the quoted passages from the article as follows:



    The language used to defend that 'ban' tells much about the real intentions of the Orban Regime. Quite in line with the old damned fecking Communist attitude, which is always shared by fecking Nazis as well or any other stupid authoritarian minded people, what questions the regime has no place in society and must be forbidden.

    But it is getting even better as the other stupid Person gets more concrete about the meaning which is behind the ban which is:



    Those 'values' this person speaks of are that of the old Fascist ideology, in which women have only a limited purpose on this earth which is to become a wife that becomes a mother of as many children as she can 'produce'. Women have to shut up and do as being told by their husband who is to be the head of the Family and decides about everything. In contrast to this stands the Communist ideology in which a woman has the same rights and the same duties like men and that included Military Service. Both ideologies are of not just of authoritarian but more of totalitarian basis and both are enemies of every freedom loving and free thinking human being, no matter the gender.

    I am not in the slightest surprised that the old antisemitism which is still alive in Hungary and other countries adds up to the way Orban runs his Country. Even Communists were antisemitic and you should be aware of the time period your Hungarian anti-immigrant hero grew up and what shaped him in his young life and afterwards, making him to what he is today.

    I tell you one thing which is that as that equal rights for both genders have to prevail and that in every aspect of life, every aspect of business and employment, equal pay for equal work, equal chances in all aspects of education, chances in profession and that it all should be based on the qualifications and abilities of the person, no matter what gender, colour of the skin or social background because it is the individual and its character that should stand at the centre of it, not anything else like nationality, religion, sex or even that sort of orientation. It is the itellect that counts and it is the latter what people who applaud and follow authoritarian leaders lack most of all.

    In cases where such gender studies are the tool to expose the discrimination of women by their gender, the studies have their right to exist and to expose every case of discrimination to be dealt with and to finally root out this so much by myself hated macho idiocy which puts the worst bullies in a way of power to Harass others and bully them the way they seem fit just because of their gender. That is not right, it never was and it never will be. But it is the quintessence of all Fascists who love to subdue women to feel surperior over them and this disgusts me.

    To be a man means to respect and treat a woman in such a way and that means on equal terms, in good and bad conditions. It means total equality, with all the consequences because a women is a fellow human being to me, not a 'second class' one or one I would have to claim a right over her, not even in marriage. It takes more strenght and self-consciousness to lead such a way of life with a femal partner but it works, on a compromise basis but it works because a wife is still her own person and one has to treat her as such with respect. Anything else is subjugation but that is what all the authoritarian idiots have in mind. They can't and won't treat women as equal partners and that is because they are weak themselves. The perfect bully characters that they are.


    Curious enough, I was able to read that twitter message and I think that others can read that too, if they even bother to read it.

    DickSwiveller Returns;107766916


    Well, when someone starts with calling others 'snowflakes' and thus trying to discredit other peoples opinions, it says a lot of himself. As I utterly detest the likes of your writings and also the ideology which stands behind it, I welcome you to my ignore list.

    You’ve called Hungary fascist quote a few times there. Would you therefore support its removal from the EU?


  • Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    You think there’s a risk of child endangerment? Ok, why do you think that?

    I’m not defending this guys lifestyle, I’ve already said it’s ridiculous.

    Do you not see how the logical consequence of letting everyone go around identifying as whatever is ridiculous?..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Brian? wrote: »
    Hold on there. I asked first. I want an answer. You can’t simply attempt to circumvent the question I asked in order to try and win an argument.

    I want know peoples actual objections. Saying “it’s obvious” isn’t an answer.

    Is it because of the risk of sexual abuse? Is it the example being set? Is it the risk of physical harm?

    What is it?

    Yeh. Sexual abuse. Weirding out the kids. The risk of physical harm. The example being set. And all of the above.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Do you not see how the logical consequence of letting everyone go around identifying as whatever is ridiculous?..

    What do you propose we do to stop them? That’s the problem I have. I think it’s silly for a grown man to identify as a 6 year old girl. But how is that my business? I really don’t have a choice except to let him identify. I can’t see what other option I have.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    Hold on there. I asked first. I want an answer. You can’t simply attempt to circumvent the question I asked in order to try and win an argument.

    I want know peoples actual objections. Saying “it’s obvious” isn’t an answer.

    Is it because of the risk of sexual abuse? Is it the example being set? Is it the risk of physical harm?

    What is it?

    Well I'd have thought it was more than obvious but since you need a written reason here ya are. Quite simply, I don't want a 52 year old being in the same playgroup as my child as if he/she is one of them. Kids that are 6 years old are full of innocence and wonder. They explore the world differently. Kids talk about all manners of stuff and have simplistic little views on it. E.g. heaven, afterlife, willies and all that type of thing. Putting a 52 year old in there with them as if he/she is on an equal playing field. Hmmmm, yeah that's a problem. The innocence is not there with them. They've already explored the world. It's not a level field.

    Now, would you be comfortable with it?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Yeh. Sexual abuse. Weirding out the kids. The risk of physical harm. The example being set. And all of the above.

    Sexual abuse: he vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by family’s members. So statistically your child is probably safer with a trans-whatever right his person is.

    Weirding our the kids& Example being set: absolutely. Right there with you. But a 100 or so years ago, women in trousers were seen as a risk to the moral fabric of society.

    The risk of physical harm: I don’t see that one. If this person wants to hit kids, they can stay at home and do it.

    Thanks for answering the question though. It’s refreshing.

    I am asking because I want to think about the reasons. I want others to think about their reasons. Moral outrage seems to be a fall back position, I am not into that at all.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Well I'd have thought it was more than obvious but since you need a written reason here ya are. Quite simply, I don't want a 52 year old being in the same playgroup as my child as if he/she is one of them. Kids that are 6 years old are full of innocence and wonder. They explore the world differently. Kids talk about all manners of stuff and have simplistic little views on it. E.g. heaven, afterlife, willies and all that type of thing. Putting a 52 year old in there with them as if he/she is on an equal playing field. Hmmmm, yeah that's a problem. The innocence is not there with them. They've already explored the world. It's not a level field.

    I wanted written because I wanted to understand your reasons and my own. This is all very rational. I can’t honestly argue with any of it. Thanks.
    Now, would you be comfortable with it?


    I don’t know. I’m not trying to be awkward. But your answer has given me pause for thought. I was prepared for the standard associations with paedophilia, the bathroom outrage and so on. I wasn’t actually prepared for some to give a thought provoking answer. Damn you!

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    You say this and then you agree that women should use women and men should use mens. What is your definition of a woman and a man?

    Both cis women and trans women should be able to use women’s changing rooms. Basically women should be able to use women’s changing rooms.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Oh I suspect you're right there. Especially when you ignore my question. And no it's not a "diversionary tactic". Why can't you answer the question? And as for extra spice? A gimp is basic Tesco paprika compared to the Ghost pepper of a middle aged person, ex husband and father of seven kids, now identifying as a woman while also identifying as a six year old girl.

    And for clarity I consider some yahoo getting his or her jollies trussed up in a latex gimp suit in the same breath as some yahoo dressing in a little girl costume "identifying" as a six year old. I would be far happier about the gimp TBH, as at least they're parading their fetish around similarly inclined adults. They're not sitting down for a kids "play date". Can you tell the difference between those yet, or again would you be happy with a gimp having a play date with your kids? If not, why not? If so, why?

    Jesus. Do you really think six year old kids should be exposed to a grown arsed person dressed as another six year old? Do you not think this may be just a tad confusing for them? Never mind whatever bloody weird motives that an adult would have for choosing to act like that. Around kids.

    Good luck with that O. The poster among a few other souls are so far down the rabbit hole of "progressive" thought they can't wriggle out and instead fall back on accusing others of deflection with no trace of atomic powered irony while doing so. You couldn't make up this level of self delusion. Oh wait...

    This is gas carry on. Your point blank refuse to answer my question first and then get all outraged I won’t answer yours.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So if like, a fourteen year old identifies as an eighteen year old should they be allowed buy alcohol?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,781 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    So if like, a fourteen year old identifies as an eighteen year old should they be allowed buy alcohol?

    Or can a 30 year old identify as a kid and get cheaper prices to the cinema!!

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    So if like, a fourteen year old identifies as an eighteen year old should they be allowed buy alcohol?

    No. That’s breaking the law.

    Do you want to bring in laws against men identifying as women? As little girls?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well it shouldn't be encouraged..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    So if like, a fourteen year old identifies as an eighteen year old should they be allowed buy alcohol?

    Nobody has said they should be allowed do anything.


    Let’s stop pretending this is anything other than a niche case about two parents letting their child play with an adult.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Well it shouldn't be encouraged..

    Would you like to see it actively discouraged?

    I wouldn’t. Live and let live.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Brian? wrote: »
    Would you like to see it actively discouraged?

    I wouldn’t. Live and let live.

    There’s no need to encourage or discourage it. One case out of how many billions of parents? There is no sign that it’s anything other than 3 adults with an extremely unconventional lifestyle.


  • Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    Would you like to see it actively discouraged?

    I wouldn’t. Live and let live.

    Would you consider the current emphasis on gender studies etc a promotion of it?


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Would you consider the current emphasis on gender studies etc a promotion of it?

    What current emphasis on gender studies? I have never met someone who’s studied gender studies in college.

    I actually don’t think it’s a real issues at all. It’s a source for online debate.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



Advertisement
Advertisement