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A question for Atheists...

24

Comments

  • #32
    Captain Red Beard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Captain Red Beard


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    There's a pigeon God?

    Hallowed beak thy name.


  • #33
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 13,955 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    _Brian wrote: »
    It’s in our DNA.

    It isn't.


  • #34
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I'm agnostic on religion but I have a question for atheists...

    If religion is all make believe and nonsense then why does nature allow humans to have such faith in the first place?

    Darwin is survival of the fittest and nature perfects the most efficient organic machines on the planet.

    So why then would this natural order of precision and efficency allow the human brain to accomodate faith of any kind?

    Surely it shouldn't if it's deleterous and make believe.

    And if it does that means there must be a benefit to faith or else nature wouldn't facilitate it.

    Opinions please...

    Why does nature allow diseases so?


  • #35
    Stanford
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Stanford


    That depends on what you define by "nature"?


  • #36
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    Stanford wrote: »
    In support of your thesis I would argue that the world was fine until organised polarised religions emerged

    Perhaps but we wouldn't have reached this level of technology either.

    I also don't believe that organised religions have been good for individuals in general, but have served as a method of controlling people to allow civilisations to develop.


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  • #37
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭indioblack


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Why does nature allow diseases so?
    It's not that disease is permitted - it's just part of the mechanics of life.


  • #38
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Stanford wrote: »
    " religion is all make believe and nonsense"...no one can say this is a scientific fact, it is true for believers and untrue for others who do not believe it.

    The second part of your sentence implies that it's all in someones head. God only exists for the people who believe in it and doesn't for those that don't implies that it's all about belief and nothing about what is actually real. So it is all make believe.

    As for what the OP says, humans are irrational in nearly every aspect of our lives.


  • #39
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,072 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    It isn't.

    It is, the desire to belong to a group is programmed deep within each one of us, some find religion satisfies this need.


  • #40
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    brightspark wrote: »
    It's my theory that belief in God, religion etc allowed people to bond into communities that then gave them success over people who did not form into similarly bonded groups.

    Those who did not adhere to the groups beliefs were persecuted etc meaning that more of those who had a belief passed on their genes etc.,
    So it does fit in with survival of the fittest.

    Most religions are based on looking after the community, with rules that reduce conflict and disease within that community

    Sorry but that completely misrepresents the notion of survival of the fittest. The 'fittest' refers the one best suited for the immediate environment.


    The closest link between religious belief and religion is the theory of exaptation, or a shift in the function of a trait during evolution, where large brains, which evolved for other reasons, led to consciousness. The beginning of consciousness forced humans to deal with the concept of personal mortality. Religion may have been one solution to this problem.


  • #41
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    _Brian wrote: »
    It is, the desire to belong to a group is programmed deep within each one of us, some find religion satisfies this need.

    This is because as individuals we don't do too well.

    A single humanoid is a poor hunter, a tribe could kill mammoths.


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  • #42
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Why does nature allow diseases so?

    Disease usually follows from a bacteria, a virus or a cell mutation and these are all naturally evolving species or processes.


  • #43
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    A Good two hour stare outside at the stars. That's all the religion anyone needs.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #44
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 13,955 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    _Brian wrote: »
    It is, the desire to belong to a group is programmed deep within each one of us, some find religion satisfies this need.

    The programming could be as much cultural as genetic, but I know what you mean.

    The widespread existence of varied religious or pseudo religious systems across civilisations separated in time and space suggests a universal influence, from our psychology or social structure perhaps, or God as some might propose. Many books have been written about it.


  • #45
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭indioblack


    As I was typing my last post I recalled a friend of mine that I'd known since childhood. She had a strong religious belief that gave her a purpose in life and an acceptance of life. So far as I am aware she went to her grave with the certainty and contentment that her belief gave her.
    Obviously this says nothing about the truth of her belief.


  • #46
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    A great man once said Oh nobody's father, who art nowhere. I know you can't hear me. Completely ignore this prayer. Nothing art thou and nothing will thou ever be. Jesus was just a man


  • #47
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Not only do I not believe in a god, I don't really really believe that others believe in one either. I think it's much more likely that people are terrified by the big questions, by death, by everything we don't know, and they're happy to subscribe to a set of rules if it means they don't have to worry themselves about the heavy stuff. They also welcome the chance to belong to a 'set' because it makes them feel less alone and it gives them the comfort of being one of many. They're willing to switch off critical thinking completely in order to stay comfortable. And that's fine, of course, until they start telling others they have to follow the same silly rules.
    If we ask 'why has the process of evolution not eliminated superstition?' we may as well ask 'does evolution select for nationalism?' or 'does evolution select for supporters of one football team over another?'


  • #48
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,072 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    indioblack wrote: »
    As I was typing my last post I recalled a friend of mine that I'd known since childhood. She had a strong religious belief that gave her a purpose in life and an acceptance of life. So far as I am aware she went to her grave with the certainty and contentment that her belief gave her.
    Obviously this says nothing about the truth of her belief.

    Perfect example of the positive side of religion.
    Having been with a few people as they passed away their faith was a monumental strength for them.
    I spoke to a good friend the day before he died aged 52 and he was confident and reassured in his belief, I was happy for him


  • #49
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Why does nature allow diseases so?

    Living things are ultimately designed to expire - can you imagine earth if nobody, or nothing died?


  • #50
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    beveragelady wrote: »
    Not only do I not believe in a god, I don't really really believe that others believe in one either. I think it's much more likely that people are terrified by the big questions, by death, by everything we don't know, and they're happy to subscribe to a set of rules if it means they don't have to worry themselves about the heavy stuff. They also welcome the chance to belong to a 'set' because it makes them feel less alone ...'

    Oh, you are so wrong in that belief.


  • #51
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭indioblack


    Atlas Straight Rower wrote: »
    Oh, you are so wrong in that belief.

    Is it so wrong? I'd consider that the poster's claim would cover many who say they believe.


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  • #52
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    a song for atheists...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p554R-Jq43A


  • #53
    Benteke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Benteke


    Theirs no such thing as god, I would be happy to be proved wrong if anyone has some evidence that does not involve faith


  • #54
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,072 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    The programming could be as much cultural as genetic, but I know what you mean.

    The widespread existence of varied religious or pseudo religious systems across civilisations separated in time and space suggests a universal influence, from our psychology or social structure perhaps, or God as some might propose. Many books have been written about it.

    Religion is too widespread, too diverse, too long lasting to be a cultural thing. It comes from deep within our base programming a throw back to times when belonging to a group meant you survived, this carried over because it worked. It just so happens that religion fits the same base need to belong.


  • #55
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Atlas Straight Rower wrote: »
    Oh, you are so wrong in that belief.

    Am I though? Really?

    I'm able to suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy a far-fetched novel or a fantasy film, but when I close the book or the film ends I re-enter the real world. I can't fathom that there might be people out there who pass their entire existence in a state of permanent suspension of disbelief. People who use an iPhone to navigate, but still believe in magic? I simply don't think it's possible to inhabit a first world country in the 21st century and actually fully believe all that god stuff. There are harmless cultural and traditional aspects of religious pageantry that strengthen community and give structure to life's events (like death, birth, marriage) but do they believe there's an omnipotent entity watching them? I just don't buy it.


  • #56
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    _Brian wrote: »
    Perfect example of the positive side of religion.
    Having been with a few people as they passed away their faith was a monumental strength for them.
    I spoke to a good friend the day before he died aged 52 and he was confident and reassured in his belief, I was happy for him


    THIS IS WHY IT IS WRONG TO INTERFERE WITH PEOPLE'S BELIEFS.

    Religion may be the opium of the people, but some people need it just to survive.

    Some atheists are as fundamental as members of religious cults.


  • #57
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭indioblack


    A man I work with has a strong conviction in the existence of God. In his case it's the biblical God and more Old Testament than New.
    I told him that if there was a deity, a creator, then it would be quite different to the one he believed existed - as such a being would have to encompass all existence in a manner that we could make sense of.


  • #58
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    indioblack wrote: »
    A man I work with has a strong conviction in the existence of God. In his case it's the biblical God and more Old Testament than New.
    I told him that if there was a deity, a creator, then it would be quite different to the one he believed existed - as such a being would have to encompass all existence in a manner that we could make sense of.

    Assuming he isn't offering up human sacrifices etc., just why do you feel you need to rob him of a mental support he has had all his life??

    It's a tough life, people need all the help they can get mentally as well as physically.

    I don't believe in "God", but I sometimes envy those who do, it would take some of the pain away..


  • #59
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    indioblack wrote: »
    A man I work with has a strong conviction in the existence of God. In his case it's the biblical God and more Old Testament than New.
    I told him that if there was a deity, a creator, then it would be quite different to the one he believed existed - as such a being would have to encompass all existence in a manner that we could make sense of.

    I dunno, the Old Testament God didn't shy away from dishing out the grief and trouble to everybody, which is what everybody everywhere has to go through in the end anyways.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #60
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭indioblack


    brightspark wrote: »
    Assuming he isn't offering up human sacrifices etc., just why do you feel you need to rob him of a mental support he has had all his life??

    It's a tough life, people need all the help they can get mentally as well as physically.

    I don't believe in "God", but I sometimes envy those who do, it would take some of the pain away..
    Fair enough - although we were debating the existence of God.
    Good post.


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  • #61
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,072 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    brightspark wrote: »
    THIS IS WHY IT IS WRONG TO INTERFERE WITH PEOPLE'S BELIEFS.

    Religion may be the opium of the people, but some people need it just to survive.

    Some atheists are as fundamental as members of religious cults.

    Yes.
    I always thought Athiests had no belief at all. Turns out they are an anti religion religion, they believe it’s theor job to knock people who have a faith - this in itself is sadder than any belief in god.


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