Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

WinnyThePoo · 14-08-2018 09:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In the vast majority of cases the two go hand in hand

You'd probably have the ask the lad who thinks the reason we had the abortion referendum was a Muslim conspiracy to out breed us.

JohnMc1 · 14-08-2018 10:01PM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You'd probably have the ask the lad who thinks the reason we had the abortion referendum was a Muslim conspiracy to out breed us.

This from the lad who thinks there's more than 2 Genders.

batgoat · 14-08-2018 10:02PM

Taytoland wrote: »

Again taking what I said completely out of context. My point was on priorities on education and what is more important in education and if all theories no matter how wacky like Marxism should be taught with state funding, regardless of how much influence it has on the world.

My argument was should creationism be funded for school courses alongside gender studies. My argument was if you choose one subject which is nonsense then you can't just discriminate against other subjects which are equally as bad on the nonsense scale.

You're defining something as nonsense when you don't even know what it is.... :rolleyes: That's my point...

Taytoland · 14-08-2018 10:09PM

batgoat wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Again taking what I said completely out of context. My point was on priorities on education and what is more important in education and if all theories no matter how wacky like Marxism should be taught with state funding, regardless of how much influence it has on the world.

My argument was should creationism be funded for school courses alongside gender studies. My argument was if you choose one subject which is nonsense then you can't just discriminate against other subjects which are equally as bad on the nonsense scale.

You're defining something as nonsense when you don't even know what it is.... :rolleyes: That's my point...

I already told you what it is. It's influence on the world is for all to see, doesn't mean my description of it isn't accurate.

Brian? · 14-08-2018 10:29PM

Taytoland wrote: »

I already told you what it is. It's influence on the world is for all to see, doesn't mean my description of it isn't accurate.

You know batgoat isn’t advocating teaching Marxist theory? You realise that historical events can be analysed through a Marxist lens by people who don’t believe in Marxism? I admire batgoat’d patience in trying to explain this to you. But it seems like you don’t want to hear it because Marxism= bad.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-08-2018 09:10AM

batgoat wrote: »

You're defining something as nonsense when you don't even know what it is.... :rolleyes: That's my point...

I grew up in a Marxist environment and I think it’s mostly guff. It’s also contradictory to feminism and identity politics and in fact most of what is called cultural Marxism.

I will agree with him on a few things though. His analysis of class is correct. However modern leftists don’t understand who the proletariat are (an IT worker is, a salt of the earth inner city taxi driver isn’t, a third generation on the dole isn’t, a pensioner on a low income who survives on renting out a house isn’t.).

He was presicient is seeing a few factories in England and understanding how that would change the world.

He was probably right that the means of production and economic base changes the structure of society, and in particular it’s ideologies. With respect to how capitalism needs to operate today, modern liberalism and neo liberalism movements (including mass migration) are what you would expect to be produced. Orban therefore is in opposition to that.

The rest is junk. Economics and philosophy.

Mr. CooL ICE · 15-08-2018 09:14AM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You really are disgusting.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You seriously think there isn't a "Look at me!!!" element to this? The genuine ones are more likely getting treatment. The Look at me crowd are one arguing over bathrooms.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

It's clearly something you have absolutely no knowledge of.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Whatever you say snowflake.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I'd rather be snowflake than a moron.

Mod: WinnyThePoo and JohnMc1, don't post here again

meeeeh · 15-08-2018 11:09AM

Taytoland wrote: »

I already told you what it is. It's influence on the world is for all to see, doesn't mean my description of it isn't accurate.

Are you still droning on about marxist school in social sciences? You don't need to agree with them but some of the main names of philosophy, sociology, communications theory, anthropology and so on come from marxist perspective or were influenced by it. Names like Hegel, Adorno, even Zizek today. What you are claiming is comparable to insisting Plato shouldn't be taught because you think he was wrong.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-08-2018 11:25AM

batgoat wrote: »

You're defining something as nonsense when you don't even know what it is.... :rolleyes: That's my point...

How much do you know about astrology, or creationism? Theres plenty of stuff that we don't allow in universities without knowing all the literature.

silverharp · 15-08-2018 11:31AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Are you still droning on about marxist school in social sciences? You don't need to agree with them but some of the main names of philosophy, sociology, communications theory, anthropology and so on come from marxist perspective or were influenced by it. Names like Hegel, Adorno, even Zizek today. What you are claiming is comparable to insisting Plato shouldn't be taught because you think he was wrong.

gender studies is more like a political boot camp though, i assume you would think it odd to do a degree in Sinn Fein studies? there isnt a Plato movement and i assume its ok to be highly critical of Plato in your essays or exams. I doubt you would get through a gender studies course if you were critical of the ideas

meeeeh · 15-08-2018 11:51AM

silverharp wrote: »

gender studies is more like a political boot camp though, i assume you would think it odd to do a degree in Sinn Fein studies? there isnt a Plato movement and i assume its ok to be highly critical of Plato in your essays or exams. I doubt you would get through a gender studies course if you were critical of the ideas

What you think or doubt is completely irrelevant because you don't know. I never had any intention or desire to study gender studies but I know enough about how influential is marxist school of thought in sociology for example. And I am not a fan but anyone doing basics of sociology (high school in my case) will learn about functionalism and marxism.

mvl · 15-08-2018 11:52AM

silverharp wrote: »

gender studies is more like a political boot camp though, i assume you would think it odd to do a degree in Sinn Fein studies? there isnt a Plato movement and i assume its ok to be highly critical of Plato in your essays or exams. I doubt you would get through a gender studies course if you were critical of the ideas

So had a look at the page of this Central European University from Budapest, and they seem to have masters/phd options.
They also say "The [gender studies] department emphasizes a rich variety of intertwined scholarly interests, such as gender and (post) state-socialist studies, nationalism, theory, cultural studies, transnationalism, and international political movements."

So not sure if what we call in here traditional gender studies would be something that would get this prime minister bothered as much, as some of the additional subjects listed above ...

So can we shift focus on analyzing Orbans nationalism plse ? Or maybe this would get the thread closed

PS: bit disappointed that it doesn't look like studies about gendering robots are on the agenda yet ...

15-08-2018 04:41PM

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

Is it? The linked article actually offers a confusing mish-mash of justifications, such as:

1) Gender studies courses are "not economically viable as they take resources away from other academic fields"

2) These courses "produce undesirable graduates for the Hungarian job market"

3) The courses are a "wasteful luxury"

4) They are "destructive"

5) They are "destroying the values-centered mode of thinking that is still present in the countries of Central Europe"

6) They are "at odds with everything Fidesz's government stands for."

As you'll see, we end up with the claim that these course need to go because they're at odds with the right-wing, anti-immigration agenda of the current government -- which amounts to blatant state censorship. The rhetoric about these courses not producing desirable graduates, etc., looks like a polite rationalization for that censorship.

That was what I meant

Lux23 · 15-08-2018 04:46PM

silverharp wrote: »

gender studies is more like a political boot camp though, i assume you would think it odd to do a degree in Sinn Fein studies? there isnt a Plato movement and i assume its ok to be highly critical of Plato in your essays or exams. I doubt you would get through a gender studies course if you were critical of the ideas

Did you do gender studies?

Taytoland · 15-08-2018 06:08PM

Brian? wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

I already told you what it is. It's influence on the world is for all to see, doesn't mean my description of it isn't accurate.

You know batgoat isn’t advocating teaching Marxist theory? You realise that historical events can be analysed through a Marxist lens by people who don’t believe in Marxism? I admire batgoat’d patience in trying to explain this to you. But it seems like you don’t want to hear it because Marxism= bad.

I understood that is exactly what he meant. I wasn't debating him on THAT point. I was debating the resources being put towards it over other courses and which should take precedent for public funding.

batgoat · 15-08-2018 06:14PM

Taytoland wrote: »

I understood that is exactly what he meant. I wasn't debating him on THAT point. I was debating the resources being put towards it over other courses and which should take precedent for public funding.

You literally said it was nonsense repeatedly... Also, even if you were referring to outright Marxism, it still very much so is important to learn about it. It's a huge part of modern history....

Nermal · 15-08-2018 06:33PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/promote-more-women-central-bank-tells-irish-banks-1.3597111

Applied gender studies.

Gender quotas are plainly contrary to the employment equality act.

Since our courts have been captured by this ideology, I don't hold out much hope of justice.

Keep it up, Hungary.

Brian? · 15-08-2018 06:59PM

Taytoland wrote: »

I understood that is exactly what he meant. I wasn't debating him on THAT point. I was debating the resources being put towards it over other courses and which should take precedent for public funding.

You were debating on both points. You said repeatedly Marxism is nonsense.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 15-08-2018 07:29PM

The term "cultural marxism" is derived from "cultural bolshevism" which originated in Nazi propaganda as part of a conspiracy theory that Jews were undermining western culture.

I wonder if those using it on boards are aware of this.

mvl · 15-08-2018 07:32PM

Nermal wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/promote-more-women-central-bank-tells-irish-banks-1.3597111

Applied gender studies.

Gender quotas are plainly contrary to the employment equality act.

Since our courts have been captured by this ideology, I don't hold out much hope of justice.

Keep it up, Hungary.

you serious ? what's that have to do with this thread ?

but ... “Banks must take ownership of their talent pipeline and put in place structures that provide the diversity of voices necessary for the constructive challenge that produces better outcomes” - sounds very reasonable recommendation, this is positive action, quite legal imo.

Nermal · 15-08-2018 08:04PM

mvl wrote: »

you serious ? what's that have to do with this thread ?

It's an example of what happens when the ideology behind gender studies captures our institutions.

mvl wrote: »

but ... “Banks must take ownership of their talent pipeline and put in place structures that provide the diversity of voices necessary for the constructive challenge that produces better outcomes” - sounds very reasonable recommendation, this is positive action, quite legal imo.

It's code for 'promote women instead of men, or we will force you to do so by applying a quota', which is not legal.

Brian? · 15-08-2018 08:06PM

Nermal wrote: »

It's an example of what happens when the ideology behind gender studies captures our institutions.

It's code for 'promote women instead of men, or we will force you to do so by applying a quote', which is not legal.

So you think the central bank would break the law?

vladmydad · 15-08-2018 08:11PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Keepaneye wrote: »

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

One of the Gender studies lecturers in UCD has taken the news well.

https://twitter.com/MaryMcAuliffe4/status/1027934366180286465

What a surprise.

Odd - never heard of her but already blocked on her on Twitter!!!

Same here , I’m blocked too ..... who the hell is she

Nermal · 15-08-2018 08:12PM

Brian? wrote: »

So you think the central bank would break the law?

As I said above: the judiciary will engage in whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to render gender quotas legal, despite the fact that by any reasonable reading of employment law they should not be. Applied gender studies.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

The term "cultural marxism" is derived from "cultural bolshevism" which originated in Nazi propaganda as part of a conspiracy theory that Jews were undermining western culture.

I wonder if those using it on boards are aware of this.

What term would you use instead?

Brian? · 15-08-2018 08:37PM

Nermal wrote: »

As I said above: the judiciary will engage in whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to render gender quotas legal, despite the fact that by any reasonable reading of employment law they should not be. Applied gender studies.
?

How would the judiciary render quotas legal when they are illegal? You’re making some serious assumptions here.

silverharp · 15-08-2018 09:11PM

Lux23 wrote: »

Did you do gender studies?

i did a real degree

15-08-2018 09:27PM

Brian? wrote: »

How would the judiciary render quotas legal when they are illegal? You’re making some serious assumptions here.

To be fair, you're twisting what he said. He said that they should be made illegal due to the unfairness of the concept. Which is correct, since they're seeking to bypass the legal measures of equality in the workplace we already have and placing one gender over another. In the name of gender diversity, but it's still removing equality of opportunity.

I'll admit his choice of words are likely confusing the issue by trying to sound more formal/technical.

Nermal · 15-08-2018 09:54PM

Brian? wrote: »

How would the judiciary render quotas legal when they are illegal? You’re making some serious assumptions here.

Sigh. They *should* be illegal, according to existing employment law. I am suggesting they will be found to be legal (they have been in the past whenever tested), because our judiciary have been largely captured by the ideology taught on these courses.

Brian? · 15-08-2018 10:10PM

Nermal wrote: »

It's an example of what happens when the ideology behind gender studies captures our institutions.

It's code for 'promote women instead of men, or we will force you to do so by applying a quota', which is not legal.

Sigh all you want. You clearly claimed they were illegal.

Brian? · 15-08-2018 10:13PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be fair, you're twisting what he said. He said that they should be made illegal due to the unfairness of the concept. Which is correct, since they're seeking to bypass the legal measures of equality in the workplace we already have and placing one gender over another. In the name of gender diversity, but it's still removing equality of opportunity.

I'll admit his choice of words are likely confusing the issue by trying to sound more formal/technical.

I’m not twisting anything. He clearly stated in the post that they are illegal but the central bank would impose them anyway.

That’s not s poor choice of words. It’s nonsense. I honestly had no idea what the hell he was on about. Surely from the direct quote above you can see why.

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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