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Is Ireland becoming a relatively progressive country?

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  • 14-08-2018 4:51pm
    #1
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭


    There's a lot of self hate in Ireland IMHO. A national pastime appears to be comparing ourselves negatively to other countries and forelock tugging towards our neighbours. That said we have brought in gay marriage and abortion, we have a highly educated populace and we have avoided populism like Brexit and Trump. Isn't it time we realised we're becoming a quite progressive country?


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    #2
    Cina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,387 ✭✭✭Cina


    Why is it always a case that we're "becoming" a progressive country.

    We are a progressive country. Just because we're not a Netherlands or Belgium doesn't mean that we aren't. There are over 190 countries in the world and we rank in the top 20, sometimes top 10 for basically every metric that could be used to define "progressive" out there.


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    #3
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Unfortunately that seems the case.


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    #4
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    As these things go, yes.. But when you look at the absolute numbers something like 700,000 people voted against gay marriage and abortion, that's a helluva lotta people


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    #5
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    So what are we progressing towards folks? Where does this all lead. Nobody ever takes time to explain that to us.


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    #6
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    topper75 wrote: »
    So what are we progressing towards folks? Where does this all lead. Nobody ever takes time to explain that to us.

    Celebrity Love Island.


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    #7
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,049 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Yes and No.

    Yes when it comes to minority people and womens rights.

    No on that people who work get ****ed over more then people who sit on there ass.

    Plenty more examples.


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    #8
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    We need to legalise ganja before we are truly progressive. Think of the tax that would generate too. Every cent of tax pumped back into the HSE and we'd be grand.


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    #9
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Just when you convince yourself that we are a progressive nation, scratch under the surface and you'll see the side of Ireland we like to hide...the pretentiousness, the wealth gap, the welfare culture, the culture of entitlement, the mess we leave behind us everywhere we go, the lack of decent public transport, our attitude to our cities, our insular media...

    We are still too much of a half assed nation if you ask me, we are a small country which should mean we can be responsive to generational changes and shifts in attitudes and while the general population seems to be well capable of progressing, the systems we have in place to Govern, deliver justice, equal opportunity, access to a decent health service, access to affordable legal services, access to proper education etc don't seem to change at all IMO as a consequence of the above mentioned flaws.

    I don't care where we rank in any metric really, we should be much better!


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    #10
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    topper75 wrote: »
    So what are we progressing towards folks? Where does this all lead. Nobody ever takes time to explain that to us.

    The opposite of Yemen


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    #11
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    RasTa wrote: »
    We need to legalise ganja before we are truly progressive. Think of the tax that would generate too. Every cent of tax pumped back into the HSE and we'd be grand.

    Imagine the amount of dickhead English stags we'd get though...


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    #12
    jacksie66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


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    #13
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    ... and we have avoided populism ...

    No, we haven't. Populism is everywhere in Irish politics.


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    #14
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,485 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    topper75 wrote: »
    So what are we progressing towards folks? Where does this all lead. Nobody ever takes time to explain that to us.

    giphy.gif


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    #15
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    the welfare culture, the culture of entitlement,

    The welfare culture, and the culture of entitlement are cornerstones of progressivism.


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    #16
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Forelock tugging?


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    #17
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    Not to put down your post but that's the kind of attitude a previous poster mentioned. Us Irish always see the bad side of our country and of ourselves. We can be an awful negative bunch. Granted things could be better but things could also be much worse. We live in a lovely little country that most other countries envy.

    Not to put down your post, but as a population we are too subservient to power, too willing to accept low standards in high office, we are a dysfunctional society if you just look around...

    I enjoy living here, I enjoy the humour and warmth of Irish people, I think the general population can be very progressive, there are parts of this Island that are beautiful, but we seem to have no self awareness of our flaws...we have no real confidence as a nation, real confidence comes from self awareness...we have this need to be or feel loved as a nation...I don't like that part of us.


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    #18
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,265 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I've seen the news either online or whilst on holidays from other countries.
    One thing I saw in common with Ireland and them was,
    Women's rights weren't good enough.
    Gay rights.
    Etc
    Then there was also stuff about.
    Welfare not being good enough or being to generous.
    Issues with the health service.


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    #19
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    topper75 wrote: »
    So what are we progressing towards folks? Where does this all lead. Nobody ever takes time to explain that to us.

    They don't have an answer.


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    #20
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Forelock tugging?

    Overly deference to other people or countries in this case. For example when someone criticises what happens in other countries someone here often says something like "how dare you talk about other countries when we live in such a sh1thole".

    On a thread about gun control in America one poster suggested "we refrain from commenting because we live in a banana republic". There's no words for that level of self-hate.


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    #21
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Not to put down your post, but as a population we are too subservient to power, too willing to accept low standards in high office, we are a dysfunctional society if you just look around...

    I enjoy living here, I enjoy the humour and warmth of Irish people, I think the general population can be very progressive, there are parts of this Island that are beautiful, but we seem to have no self awareness of our flaws...we have no real confidence as a nation, real confidence comes from self awareness...we have this need to be or feel loved as a nation...I don't like that part of us.

    As a population we are a hundred and one different things. If you want to be subservient go ahead, but please include me out of your headcount.


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    #22
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    riffmongous wrote: »
    As these things go, yes.. But when you look at the absolute numbers something like 700,000 people voted against gay marriage and abortion, that's a helluva lotta people

    So a country isn’t “progressive” unless it’s 100% progressive?


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    #23
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    So a country isn’t “progressive” unless it’s 100% progressive?

    which doesnt exist


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    #24
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Not until we have a cis-transexual Grand Mufthi of all ireland, from a traveller background, can we even to begin to consider ourselves progressive.


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    #25
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    So a country isn’t “progressive” unless it’s 100% progressive?

    I'd be rather suspicious of a country where 100% of people think exactly the same way.


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    #26
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    riffmongous wrote: »
    As these things go, yes.. But when you look at the absolute numbers something like 700,000 people voted against gay marriage and abortion, that's a helluva lotta people

    So a country isn’t “progressive” unless it’s 100% progressive?
    That is what they want. After the abortion result the people of Donegal got absolutely slated for voting no to it as if they had no right to vote that way or crazy. Maybe they just didn't agree with abortion or believed in traditional values of which many of us do all over the island.


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    #27
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Taytoland wrote: »
    That is what they want. After the abortion result the people of Donegal got absolutely slated for voting no to it as if they had no right to vote that way or crazy. Maybe they just didn't agree with abortion or believed in traditional values of which many of us do all over the island.

    I'd hazard a guess that many young Donegal people voted yes -- they just voted in Dublin, Galway, Cork, etc., where they had to move to work or study. Donegal was one of only two counties in the country to experience a drop in population in Census 2016. That shows the impact of emigration on the county. It stands to reason that those leaving were more likely to be younger and more progressive, while those remaining are older and more traditional, with conservative views.


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    #28
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Progressive....

    Ha ha onwards and upwards we go, divided conquered...

    No more 40 hours a week....work like a knob...less family time...long commutes to work.

    No running in the playground, dont look at me, broken marriages...

    Rubbish tv

    Ban fun, kid's being brought up in a creche where they're all winners, a future 40% population of narcissistic brats....

    Culture flying out the window...

    Disposable cars, spouses and mortgages...

    Its not going too well for some, and I'm
    empathetic to the pain that's out there.

    Two parent's on 60k each a year with less than 60 euro disposable income a week...

    Sounds great...

    Keep it simple stupid.....


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    #29
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    nthclare wrote: »
    Progressive....

    Ha ha onwards and upwards we go, divided conquered...

    No more 40 hours a week....work like a knob...less family time...long commutes to work.

    No running in the playground, dont look at me, broken marriages...

    Rubbish tv

    Ban fun, kid's being brought up in a creche where they're all winners, a future 40% population of narcissistic brats....

    Culture flying out the window...

    Disposable cars, spouses and mortgages...

    Its not going too well for some, and I'm
    empathetic to the pain that's out there.

    Two parent's on 60k each a year with less than 60 euro disposable income a week...

    Sounds great...

    Keep it simple stupid.....

    This post answers my question above, what are we progressing towards?

    The answer is that there is no such thing as progress. There is just change. Changes may suit you, others won't. Progress and 'progressive' is just bullsh1t.


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    #30
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Lilly Limited Workaholic wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    That is what they want. After the abortion result the people of Donegal got absolutely slated for voting no to it as if they had no right to vote that way or crazy. Maybe they just didn't agree with abortion or believed in traditional values of which many of us do all over the island.

    I'd hazard a guess that many young Donegal people voted yes -- they just voted in Dublin, Galway, Cork, etc., where they had to move to work or study. Donegal was one of only two counties in the country to experience a drop in population in Census 2016. That shows the impact of emigration on the county. It stands to reason that those leaving were more likely to be younger and more progressive, while those remaining are older and more traditional, with conservative views.
    Donegal voted no and got slated for it. That was the view of the people of Donegal. I don't see how that many people would have left it would have made that much of a difference in the vote unless you are talking a huge migration.


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    #31
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Taytoland wrote: »
    Unfortunately that seems the case.

    You don't like progress? When should we have stopped?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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