Ticket required for infant to attend gaa due to health and safety

sexmag · 14-08-2018 06:25AM #1

GAA Director of Communications Alan Milton said:
"Every person coming to the stadium requires a ticket. It's for health and safety and it's just best practise. It has to be black and white for health and safety reasons."

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/80-to-bring-a-16weekold-baby-to-the-allireland-final-tyrone-fan-slams-bizarre-gaa-ticket-policy-37211641.html

Can anyone explain under what reason a ticket is required for a baby under health and safety? I've looked through their terms and can't find specifically what party of health and safety they are referring to so it's not in "black and white" as he suggests. It's strange as other events at croke park don't have this stipulation and the article cheekily mentions rugby at the Aviva not requiring one

Thanks.

Victor · 14-08-2018 06:46AM

Their safety case likely stipulates a maximum capacity and having unticketed attendees could lead to that limit being exceeded.

Eggs For Dinner · 14-08-2018 06:48AM

Ticket or not, I would have thought that there would be obvious H&S reasons not to bring very young children to an event where there are 10's of thousands of people congregated close together

Pauliedragon · 14-08-2018 07:18AM

I can't speak for any laws but from own experience of going to matches in multiple sports at different stadiums there's no way I would take a baby. Between inadvertant (or maybe sometimes on purpose) stray elbows, being pushed in the back going down steps, or just general pushing and shoving I don't think it's safe. If that child got I injured the GAA would get flogged for poor H&S. If I was running a stadium I wouldn't let a child under 2 in with or without a ticket.

dzer2 · 14-08-2018 07:25AM

Took our then 11 month old to the 2012 drawn AI. Sat in the Cusack Stand no bother at all. We had brought her to all the other matches no problem. Stopped at the gate and asked for a ticket for her even though she was in a body carrier and couldn't sit in a seat. I asked to see the stadium director got in after that. She slept all throughout the match. I would say this is where the new directives have come from.

Torcaill · 14-08-2018 07:33AM

dzer2 wrote: »

Took our then 11 month old to the 2012 drawn AI. Sat in the Cusack Stand no bother at all. We had brought her to all the other matches no problem. Stopped at the gate and asked for a ticket for her even though she was in a body carrier and couldn't sit in a seat. I asked to see the stadium director got in after that. She slept all throughout the match. I would say this is where the new directives have come from.

No issue with the noise level causing harm to the 11 month old? (aside from the obvious congestion issues associated with big crowds)

sexmag · 14-08-2018 07:50AM

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Between inadvertant (or maybe sometimes on purpose) stray elbows, being pushed in the back going down steps, or just general pushing and shoving I don't think it's safe

Is this front and centre at a heavy metal concert or a seated sport even you are going too that people elbow,push people down steps etc?

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

Noise level wise the toddlers have the ear defenders, babies are suprisngly good at sleeping through loud noise, in fact it acts as a white noise for them to help them sleep in some cases.

I get the point of stadium being filled to capicity and toddlers without tickets could over fill it but if thats the case shouldnt all sport and music event etc have the same policy?

Spook_ie · 14-08-2018 08:51AM

I would expect that if there's a a capacity limit for any venue under H&S rules, particularly for Fire Safety then yes all attendees should need a ticket regardless of age.

tayto lover · 14-08-2018 08:52AM

If a very serious incident occurred the authorities would need to know how many people were at the event I.e. Fire, riot, bomb, plane crashed into the stadium etc. it's a H&S matter.

sexmag · 14-08-2018 08:56AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

I would expect that if there's a a capacity limit for any venue under H&S rules, particularly for Fire Safety then yes all attendees should need a ticket regardless of age.

tayto lover wrote: »

If a very serious incident occurred the authorities would need to know how many people were at the event I.e. Fire, riot, bomb, plane crashed into the stadium etc. it's a H&S matter.

I understand that but where does that leave them with people who had tickets and left or people who are brough in by people who run it as guests without tickets etc? The amonut of tickets sold will never equal the amount of people in or at the venue

14-08-2018 08:59AM

tayto lover wrote: »

If a very serious incident occurred the authorities would need to know how many people were at the event I.e. Fire, riot, bomb, plane crashed into the stadium etc. it's a H&S matter.

That's not true. Unless they are going to count them out of the venue one by one, an exact headcount is useless.

'elf and safety' is usually the last refuge of the scoundrel in imposing pointless rules. Similar to the 'computer error' excuse for organisational cock ups. If there is a real safety issue, they should explain the safety issue.

14-08-2018 09:02AM

When they were very small babies our kids went to many a match in Croke Park.

Always had no issue with them needing a tick either, it pretty obvious that the organisers need to know how many people are in the stadium.

They usually sleep through. The noise is not actually that loud and the crowd are seated not jumping around or anything.
If they were upset or crying then we took them to the concourse and walked them around a bit.

Pauliedragon · 14-08-2018 09:06AM

sexmag wrote: »

Is this front and centre at a heavy metal concert or a seated sport even you are going too that people elbow,push people down steps etc?

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

Noise level wise the toddlers have the ear defenders, babies are suprisngly good at sleeping through loud noise, in fact it acts as a white noise for them to help them sleep in some cases.

I get the point of stadium being filled to capicity and toddlers without tickets could over fill it but if thats the case shouldnt all sport and music event etc have the same policy?

I never said I was pushed down steps I mean when you have large crowds anywhere going up or down steps people are going at different speeds and sometimes if the person behind you is in a rush they can get a bit impatient. Add alcohol to the mix in some cases and it can get messy. You cant tell me that in a stadium with over 80k people you wont get some rowdy, drunk, messy people who walk at their own pace regardless of who is in front of them.

dzer2 · 14-08-2018 09:12AM

Pauliedragon wrote: »

sexmag wrote: »

Is this front and centre at a heavy metal concert or a seated sport even you are going too that people elbow,push people down steps etc?

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

Noise level wise the toddlers have the ear defenders, babies are suprisngly good at sleeping through loud noise, in fact it acts as a white noise for them to help them sleep in some cases.

I get the point of stadium being filled to capicity and toddlers without tickets could over fill it but if thats the case shouldnt all sport and music event etc have the same policy?

I never said I was pushed down steps I mean when you have large crowds anywhere going up or down steps people are going at different speeds and sometimes if the person behind you is in a rush they can get a bit impatient. Add alcohol to the mix in some cases and it can get messy. You cant tell me that in a stadium with over 80k people you wont get some rowdy, drunk, messy people who walk at their own pace regardless of who is in front of them.

We take the 5 kids and my old dad to all the matches. Get there early sit down have your picnic. When the game is over what rush is on you. You have your family out for the day take in the atmosphere and enjoy it.

Works every time

Victor · 14-08-2018 10:06AM

sexmag wrote: »

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

sexmag · 14-08-2018 10:11AM

Victor wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

These inciddents are over 30 years ago, health and safety has come a long way since then

However the point i was making is with my family in attendance to rugby and soccer matches ive never had someone push and shove me, granted as one posted said we wait until the crowds have died down to leave but thats just common sense like waiting to get off an airplane

miamee · 14-08-2018 10:15AM

If they have to have a ticket for every human in the stadium including infants then by all means issue an infant ticket for a nominal fee. But charging €80 for an infant who will remain in a baby sling or on mammy or daddy's lap for the entirety is surely just a money grabbing exercise? Or are they actively trying to discourage people bringing babies?

Victor · 14-08-2018 10:16AM

sexmag wrote: »

These inciddents are over 30 years ago, health and safety has come a long way since then

Humans are intelligent. People are stupid. People are just as stupid today as they were 30 years ago.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/spanish-boardwalk-collapse-leaves-300-injured-37213714.html

miamee wrote: »

But charging €80 for an infant who will remain in a baby sling or on mammy or daddy's lap for the entirety is surely just a money grabbing exercise?

GAA tickets for children for major events often cost about a €5.

Spook_ie · 14-08-2018 10:34AM

sexmag wrote: »

These inciddents are over 30 years ago, health and safety has come a long way since then

However the point i was making is with my family in attendance to rugby and soccer matches ive never had someone push and shove me, granted as one posted said we wait until the crowds have died down to leave but thats just common sense like waiting to get off an airplane

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/injuries-after-falls-festival-crowd-crush-20161231-gtk4z6.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/poor-police-control-led-to-crowd-crush-at-rajaji-hall/articleshow/65330742.cms

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brighton-pride-crush-britney-spears-preston-park-performance-injuries-trapped-police-a8479586.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_stampedes#2018

It isn't limited to GAA/Rugby/Soccer matches, and just as many in 21st century.

Timfy · 14-08-2018 10:48AM

I promise that this is a serious question... not trolling or looking for an argument.

Why do people feel the need to take 3 year olds and below to big sporting events, concerts etc?

The child gets nothing out of it and is subjected to a harsh and noisy environment that is way out of their comfort zone, the parent / guardian can't jump up and punch the air, drink a pint, dance or eat a dodgy pie with a baby strapped to their chest and people in the immediate vicinity have to endure the inevitable crying of an infant when it all gets to much for them (not the kiddies fault)

I don't believe for a second that life should come to an end once you have kids but surely the little one would have more fun around at grannies for the afternoon letting you as parents out to enjoy the game.

14-08-2018 10:50AM

Victor wrote: »

Humans are intelligent. People are stupid. People are just as stupid today as they were 30 years ago.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/spanish-boardwalk-collapse-leaves-300-injured-37213714.html

GAA tickets for children for major events often cost about a €5.

All Ireland finals are special cases.

Tickets are either €80 for the stands, regardless of location, or €40 for the terraces.

Every other game kids tickets are €5.

darklighter · 14-08-2018 10:54AM

miamee wrote: »

Or are they actively trying to discourage people bringing babies?

Exactly!

14-08-2018 10:55AM

Timfy wrote: »

I promise that this is a serious question... not trolling or looking for an argument.

Why do people feel the need to take 3 year olds and below to big sporting events, concerts etc?

The child gets nothing out of it and is subjected to a harsh and noisy environment that is way out of their comfort zone, the parent / guardian can't jump up and punch the air, drink a pint, dance or eat a dodgy pie with a baby strapped to their chest and people in the immediate vicinity have to endure the inevitable crying of an infant when it all gets to much for them (not the kiddies fault)

I don't believe for a second that life should come to an end once you have kids but surely the little one would have more fun around at grannies for the afternoon letting you as parents out to enjoy the game.

We brought our babies when my wife was still breast feeding, that was necessary at the time.

But once that was finished we stopped bringing them until they were 6 or 7 and started to have can interest in the game itself.

They are more difficult to deal with between walking age and when they get an interest in the game, no use bringing them along for those years

Eggs For Dinner · 14-08-2018 12:09PM

You can be sure that this action is as a result of litigation. Nearly every restriction on what was once accepted social activity follows on from such actions

tayto lover · 14-08-2018 01:28PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's not true. Unless they are going to count them out of the venue one by one, an exact headcount is useless.

'elf and safety' is usually the last refuge of the scoundrel in imposing pointless rules. Similar to the 'computer error' excuse for organisational cock ups. If there is a real safety issue, they should explain the safety issue.

It is H&S though. What brought it on was insurance based.

14-08-2018 01:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

It is H&S though. What brought it on was insurance based.

What's the insurance issue?

Victor · 14-08-2018 03:18PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the insurance issue?

Liability awards for young children, who might expect to live for another 80-100 years can be in the order of €10-20 million.

Spook_ie · 14-08-2018 03:25PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the insurance issue?

Regardless of the cost of a ticket be it €1 or €100 if you haven't paid to enter a venue do you have the same insurance cover as someone who has paid, I know that they'd still be likely to be subject to duty of care etc. but specific insurance?

StupidLikeAFox · 14-08-2018 03:38PM

The health and safety angle is irrelevant - you can't say it's an issue having babies in the stadium but give me 80 quid and suddenly its fine. It's the same baby!

I would say they are actively trying to discourage a few thousand babies around the place on all Ireland final day

sexmag · 14-08-2018 03:44PM

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

The health and safety angle is irrelevant - you can't say it's an issue having babies in the stadium but give me 80 quid and suddenly its fine. It's the same baby!

I would say they are actively trying to discourage a few thousand babies around the place on all Ireland final day

True but I'm wondering how they can argue it's a health and safety issue if the baby doesn't pay but it isn't if they do pay?

Seems like they are talking out their a$$ to make sure they sell tickets.

Many events have kids under 2 going free for gigs and sports events,how can one be different to the other?

Spook_ie · 14-08-2018 03:50PM

sexmag wrote: »

True but I'm wondering how they can argue it's a health and safety issue if the baby doesn't pay but it isn't if they do pay?

Seems like they are talking out their a$$ to make sure they sell tickets.

Many events have kids under 2 going free for gigs and sports events,how can one be different to the other?

But in such cases are they not admitted as free but would still be ticketed, if a venue has a 1000 person capacity it's a 1000 people, not a 1000 people plus x number of 2 year old people.

Ticket required for infant to attend gaa due to health and safety

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