Ticket required for infant to attend gaa due to health and safety

sexmag

GAA Director of Communications Alan Milton said:
"Every person coming to the stadium requires a ticket. It's for health and safety and it's just best practise. It has to be black and white for health and safety reasons."

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/80-to-bring-a-16weekold-baby-to-the-allireland-final-tyrone-fan-slams-bizarre-gaa-ticket-policy-37211641.html

Can anyone explain under what reason a ticket is required for a baby under health and safety? I've looked through their terms and can't find specifically what party of health and safety they are referring to so it's not in "black and white" as he suggests. It's strange as other events at croke park don't have this stipulation and the article cheekily mentions rugby at the Aviva not requiring one

Thanks.

Victor

Their safety case likely stipulates a maximum capacity and having unticketed attendees could lead to that limit being exceeded.

Eggs For Dinner

Ticket or not, I would have thought that there would be obvious H&S reasons not to bring very young children to an event where there are 10's of thousands of people congregated close together

Pauliedragon

I can't speak for any laws but from own experience of going to matches in multiple sports at different stadiums there's no way I would take a baby. Between inadvertant (or maybe sometimes on purpose) stray elbows, being pushed in the back going down steps, or just general pushing and shoving I don't think it's safe. If that child got I injured the GAA would get flogged for poor H&S. If I was running a stadium I wouldn't let a child under 2 in with or without a ticket.

dzer2

Took our then 11 month old to the 2012 drawn AI. Sat in the Cusack Stand no bother at all. We had brought her to all the other matches no problem. Stopped at the gate and asked for a ticket for her even though she was in a body carrier and couldn't sit in a seat. I asked to see the stadium director got in after that. She slept all throughout the match. I would say this is where the new directives have come from.

Torcaill

dzer2 wrote: »

Took our then 11 month old to the 2012 drawn AI. Sat in the Cusack Stand no bother at all. We had brought her to all the other matches no problem. Stopped at the gate and asked for a ticket for her even though she was in a body carrier and couldn't sit in a seat. I asked to see the stadium director got in after that. She slept all throughout the match. I would say this is where the new directives have come from.

No issue with the noise level causing harm to the 11 month old? (aside from the obvious congestion issues associated with big crowds)

sexmag

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Between inadvertant (or maybe sometimes on purpose) stray elbows, being pushed in the back going down steps, or just general pushing and shoving I don't think it's safe

Is this front and centre at a heavy metal concert or a seated sport even you are going too that people elbow,push people down steps etc?

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

Noise level wise the toddlers have the ear defenders, babies are suprisngly good at sleeping through loud noise, in fact it acts as a white noise for them to help them sleep in some cases.

I get the point of stadium being filled to capicity and toddlers without tickets could over fill it but if thats the case shouldnt all sport and music event etc have the same policy?

Spook_ie

I would expect that if there's a a capacity limit for any venue under H&S rules, particularly for Fire Safety then yes all attendees should need a ticket regardless of age.

tayto lover

If a very serious incident occurred the authorities would need to know how many people were at the event I.e. Fire, riot, bomb, plane crashed into the stadium etc. it's a H&S matter.

sexmag

Spook_ie wrote: »

I would expect that if there's a a capacity limit for any venue under H&S rules, particularly for Fire Safety then yes all attendees should need a ticket regardless of age.

tayto lover wrote: »

If a very serious incident occurred the authorities would need to know how many people were at the event I.e. Fire, riot, bomb, plane crashed into the stadium etc. it's a H&S matter.

I understand that but where does that leave them with people who had tickets and left or people who are brough in by people who run it as guests without tickets etc? The amonut of tickets sold will never equal the amount of people in or at the venue

AndrewJRenko

tayto lover wrote: »

If a very serious incident occurred the authorities would need to know how many people were at the event I.e. Fire, riot, bomb, plane crashed into the stadium etc. it's a H&S matter.

That's not true. Unless they are going to count them out of the venue one by one, an exact headcount is useless.

'elf and safety' is usually the last refuge of the scoundrel in imposing pointless rules. Similar to the 'computer error' excuse for organisational cock ups. If there is a real safety issue, they should explain the safety issue.

Fr Tod Umptious

When they were very small babies our kids went to many a match in Croke Park.

Always had no issue with them needing a tick either, it pretty obvious that the organisers need to know how many people are in the stadium.

They usually sleep through. The noise is not actually that loud and the crowd are seated not jumping around or anything.
If they were upset or crying then we took them to the concourse and walked them around a bit.

Pauliedragon

sexmag wrote: »

Is this front and centre at a heavy metal concert or a seated sport even you are going too that people elbow,push people down steps etc?

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

Noise level wise the toddlers have the ear defenders, babies are suprisngly good at sleeping through loud noise, in fact it acts as a white noise for them to help them sleep in some cases.

I get the point of stadium being filled to capicity and toddlers without tickets could over fill it but if thats the case shouldnt all sport and music event etc have the same policy?

I never said I was pushed down steps I mean when you have large crowds anywhere going up or down steps people are going at different speeds and sometimes if the person behind you is in a rush they can get a bit impatient. Add alcohol to the mix in some cases and it can get messy. You cant tell me that in a stadium with over 80k people you wont get some rowdy, drunk, messy people who walk at their own pace regardless of who is in front of them.

dzer2

Pauliedragon wrote: »

sexmag wrote: »

Is this front and centre at a heavy metal concert or a seated sport even you are going too that people elbow,push people down steps etc?

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

Noise level wise the toddlers have the ear defenders, babies are suprisngly good at sleeping through loud noise, in fact it acts as a white noise for them to help them sleep in some cases.

I get the point of stadium being filled to capicity and toddlers without tickets could over fill it but if thats the case shouldnt all sport and music event etc have the same policy?

I never said I was pushed down steps I mean when you have large crowds anywhere going up or down steps people are going at different speeds and sometimes if the person behind you is in a rush they can get a bit impatient. Add alcohol to the mix in some cases and it can get messy. You cant tell me that in a stadium with over 80k people you wont get some rowdy, drunk, messy people who walk at their own pace regardless of who is in front of them.

We take the 5 kids and my old dad to all the matches. Get there early sit down have your picnic. When the game is over what rush is on you. You have your family out for the day take in the atmosphere and enjoy it.

Works every time

Victor

sexmag wrote: »

Ive been to the aviva with our kids as babies to ireland games and never once had an issue like that, is this something limited to GAA fans maybe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

sexmag

Victor wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

These inciddents are over 30 years ago, health and safety has come a long way since then

However the point i was making is with my family in attendance to rugby and soccer matches ive never had someone push and shove me, granted as one posted said we wait until the crowds have died down to leave but thats just common sense like waiting to get off an airplane

miamee

If they have to have a ticket for every human in the stadium including infants then by all means issue an infant ticket for a nominal fee. But charging €80 for an infant who will remain in a baby sling or on mammy or daddy's lap for the entirety is surely just a money grabbing exercise? Or are they actively trying to discourage people bringing babies?

Victor

sexmag wrote: »

These inciddents are over 30 years ago, health and safety has come a long way since then

Humans are intelligent. People are stupid. People are just as stupid today as they were 30 years ago.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/spanish-boardwalk-collapse-leaves-300-injured-37213714.html

miamee wrote: »

But charging €80 for an infant who will remain in a baby sling or on mammy or daddy's lap for the entirety is surely just a money grabbing exercise?

GAA tickets for children for major events often cost about a €5.

Spook_ie

sexmag wrote: »

These inciddents are over 30 years ago, health and safety has come a long way since then

However the point i was making is with my family in attendance to rugby and soccer matches ive never had someone push and shove me, granted as one posted said we wait until the crowds have died down to leave but thats just common sense like waiting to get off an airplane

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/injuries-after-falls-festival-crowd-crush-20161231-gtk4z6.html


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/poor-police-control-led-to-crowd-crush-at-rajaji-hall/articleshow/65330742.cms

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brighton-pride-crush-britney-spears-preston-park-performance-injuries-trapped-police-a8479586.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_stampedes#2018

It isn't limited to GAA/Rugby/Soccer matches, and just as many in 21st century.

Timfy

I promise that this is a serious question... not trolling or looking for an argument.

Why do people feel the need to take 3 year olds and below to big sporting events, concerts etc?

The child gets nothing out of it and is subjected to a harsh and noisy environment that is way out of their comfort zone, the parent / guardian can't jump up and punch the air, drink a pint, dance or eat a dodgy pie with a baby strapped to their chest and people in the immediate vicinity have to endure the inevitable crying of an infant when it all gets to much for them (not the kiddies fault)

I don't believe for a second that life should come to an end once you have kids but surely the little one would have more fun around at grannies for the afternoon letting you as parents out to enjoy the game.

Fr Tod Umptious

Victor wrote: »

Humans are intelligent. People are stupid. People are just as stupid today as they were 30 years ago.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/spanish-boardwalk-collapse-leaves-300-injured-37213714.html

GAA tickets for children for major events often cost about a €5.

All Ireland finals are special cases.

Tickets are either €80 for the stands, regardless of location, or €40 for the terraces.

Every other game kids tickets are €5.

darklighter

miamee wrote: »

Or are they actively trying to discourage people bringing babies?

Exactly!

Fr Tod Umptious

Timfy wrote: »

I promise that this is a serious question... not trolling or looking for an argument.

Why do people feel the need to take 3 year olds and below to big sporting events, concerts etc?

The child gets nothing out of it and is subjected to a harsh and noisy environment that is way out of their comfort zone, the parent / guardian can't jump up and punch the air, drink a pint, dance or eat a dodgy pie with a baby strapped to their chest and people in the immediate vicinity have to endure the inevitable crying of an infant when it all gets to much for them (not the kiddies fault)

I don't believe for a second that life should come to an end once you have kids but surely the little one would have more fun around at grannies for the afternoon letting you as parents out to enjoy the game.

We brought our babies when my wife was still breast feeding, that was necessary at the time.

But once that was finished we stopped bringing them until they were 6 or 7 and started to have can interest in the game itself.

They are more difficult to deal with between walking age and when they get an interest in the game, no use bringing them along for those years

Eggs For Dinner

You can be sure that this action is as a result of litigation. Nearly every restriction on what was once accepted social activity follows on from such actions

tayto lover

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's not true. Unless they are going to count them out of the venue one by one, an exact headcount is useless.

'elf and safety' is usually the last refuge of the scoundrel in imposing pointless rules. Similar to the 'computer error' excuse for organisational cock ups. If there is a real safety issue, they should explain the safety issue.

It is H&S though. What brought it on was insurance based.

AndrewJRenko

tayto lover wrote: »

It is H&S though. What brought it on was insurance based.

What's the insurance issue?

Victor

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the insurance issue?

Liability awards for young children, who might expect to live for another 80-100 years can be in the order of €10-20 million.

Spook_ie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the insurance issue?

Regardless of the cost of a ticket be it €1 or €100 if you haven't paid to enter a venue do you have the same insurance cover as someone who has paid, I know that they'd still be likely to be subject to duty of care etc. but specific insurance?

StupidLikeAFox

The health and safety angle is irrelevant - you can't say it's an issue having babies in the stadium but give me 80 quid and suddenly its fine. It's the same baby!

I would say they are actively trying to discourage a few thousand babies around the place on all Ireland final day

sexmag

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

The health and safety angle is irrelevant - you can't say it's an issue having babies in the stadium but give me 80 quid and suddenly its fine. It's the same baby!

I would say they are actively trying to discourage a few thousand babies around the place on all Ireland final day

True but I'm wondering how they can argue it's a health and safety issue if the baby doesn't pay but it isn't if they do pay?

Seems like they are talking out their a$$ to make sure they sell tickets.

Many events have kids under 2 going free for gigs and sports events,how can one be different to the other?

Spook_ie

sexmag wrote: »

True but I'm wondering how they can argue it's a health and safety issue if the baby doesn't pay but it isn't if they do pay?

Seems like they are talking out their a$$ to make sure they sell tickets.

Many events have kids under 2 going free for gigs and sports events,how can one be different to the other?

But in such cases are they not admitted as free but would still be ticketed, if a venue has a 1000 person capacity it's a 1000 people, not a 1000 people plus x number of 2 year old people.

sexmag

sexmag wrote: »

Many events have kids under 2 going free for gigs and sports events,how can one be different to the other?

Cause it's their stadium and they can do what they want?

How on EARTH is this a legal discussion??? It's a GAA thread at best. This is just whinging about a decision the GAA made, there's no legal element to this surely?

sexmag

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cause it's their stadium and they can do what they want?

How on EARTH is this a legal discussion??? It's a GAA thread at best. This is just whinging about a decision the GAA made, there's no legal element to this surely?

The health and safety act falls under legal discussion.

I asked what part of health and safety does an infant not having a ticket effect that one having a ticket doesnt

Spook_ie

sexmag wrote: »

The health and safety act falls under legal discussion.

I asked what part of health and safety does an infant not having a ticket effect that one having a ticket doesnt

Too big to load on my mobile but maybe the answer is in here somewhere

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/sport/english/safety-sports-grounds/safety-sports-grounds.pdf

Fr Tod Umptious

sexmag wrote: »

True but I'm wondering how they can argue it's a health and safety issue if the baby doesn't pay but it isn't if they do pay?

Seems like they are talking out their a$$ to make sure they sell tickets.

Many events have kids under 2 going free for gigs and sports events,how can one be different to the other?

All Ireland finals are sellouts, they are some of the most sought after tickets in the Irish sport calendar.

Feck all babies will be there, only the odd one or two out of necessity.
But you always get these stories this time of year when someone who wants to/needs to bring a baby realises they need a ticket and goes to the media with it.

Thirty years ago you could lift a child over the turnstiles at an All Ireland final and get them in for free.

But a near tragic crush at the Canal End during the hurling final around 1988 put an end to that.

sexmag

sexmag wrote: »

The health and safety act falls under legal discussion.

I asked what part of health and safety does an infant not having a ticket effect that one having a ticket doesnt

Which act? The article never mentions a legal impediment or any legislation. It's just someone saying "ah, sure health and safety" as the usual red-tape nonsense answer.

This just isn't a legal issue at all.

AndrewJRenko

Victor wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the insurance issue?

Liability awards for young children, who might expect to live for another 80-100 years can be in the order of €10-20 million.

Have there been any such awards for incidents at football matches or similar events?

SeeMoreBut

82000 people turn up and bring 82000 babies with them

I presume that is fine.

If not then where do you draw the line

sexmag

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

82000 people turn up and bring 82000 babies with them

I presume that is fine.

If not then where do you draw the line

That could be the case for many events where children have been admitted free to be held by a parent,never been an issue before

sexmag

Weepsie wrote: »

They are still within their rights to refuse entry to non ticketed people if they have not explicitly said that kids go free etc etc

Of course but just say that instead of hiding behind the guise of health and safety and saying "is in black and white" without specifying what you're talking about like he did

BPKS

I demand that I am allowed bring my 6 month old baby to the Bord Gais theatre, the Point and The Olympia to any concert or play I decide to go to even if I have no ticket for the child.

If I dont get my way then I should be able to sue them, shouldnt I?

Fann Linn

Briniging young babies to Croker on All Ireland day is just a waste of money and deprives supporters of tickets.

sexmag

BPKS wrote: »

I demand that I am allowed bring my 6 month old baby to the Bord Gais theatre, the Point and The Olympia to any concert or play I decide to go to even if I have no ticket for the child.

If I dont get my way then I should be able to sue them, shouldnt I?

Completing missing the point of course but if they are family friendly events then I don't see why not,most have a rule of under 2s going free anyway, like electric picnic for example

Dial Hard

sexmag wrote:

I understand that but where does that leave them with people who had tickets and left or people who are brough in by people who run it as guests without tickets etc? The amonut of tickets sold will never equal the amount of people in or at the venue

That's why tickets are scanned on entry. You know how many people are actually in the venue regardless of how many tickets were sold.

sexmag wrote:

True but I'm wondering how they can argue it's a health and safety issue if the baby doesn't pay but it isn't if they do pay?

It's only a H&S issue if the baby isn't ticketed, in which case there's no record of that person entering the stadium. Whether the ticket is charged for or not is irrelevant.

SeeMoreBut wrote:

82000 people turn up and bring 82000 babies with them

My sister was the ticket officer 9 years for a large professional sporting organisation that shall remain nameless . They had the same policy - all persons entering the stadium had to have a ticket. However, they didn't charge for under twos and there was a limited number of infant tickets available specifically to avoid the (albeit extremely exaggerated scenario above) happening. If you needed an infant ticket for the match you requested one in advance and if there were any available, you got one for free, seemples. The vast, vast, vast majority of people with very young children I saw at any of those matches had ear defenders on them.

The way some people here are going on, parents shouldn't leave the house with their kids til they've started school.

meath4sam

Why would you want to bring a baby to match anyway?? IMO pointless.
Capacity of Croke Park is 82000 not 82001.
If a 11 month old can go in free can a 2 yr old? where do you draw the line.

AndrewJRenko

Weepsie wrote: »

Electronic scanners should be able to give an official tally quick enough

It may well, but the official tally is useless for evacuation purposes. You're not going to count/scan them out one-by-one, so you'll never have any idea if/when you've done a full evacuation.

Sleeper12

sexmag wrote:

Can anyone explain under what reason a ticket is required for a baby under health and safety? I've looked through their terms and can't find specifically what party of health and safety they are referring to so it's not in "black and white" as he suggests. It's strange as other events at croke park don't have this stipulation and the article cheekily mentions rugby at the Aviva not requiring one

They have to know how many are in attendance & there would be a maximum capacity. They have to have a record of the numbers for insurance purposes.

Tickets would be the simplist solution. They don't have to charge for the tickets though.

Sleeper12

tayto lover wrote:

It is H&S though. What brought it on was insurance based.

Not just insurance. By law you must have X amount of security for X amount of people in attendance. I don't know about something as big as the Aviva but in a night club or gig the minimum amount of security /stuarts is one per 100 attendance. Night club with 1500 customers needs minimum of 15 security.