Build up to Berlin European Championships

gmisk · 12-08-2018 9:57pm

Itziger wrote: »

If that Duplantis lad doesn't make it to the very top and stay there for a generation I'll be surprised and disappointed. As for Jakob Inge....... Can he do it at world level? Win that is, he can already compete.

Watching this back now taped it.... Jesus he is something else!
18yo!

Goose76 · 12-08-2018 9:58pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, what was getting at there? Was she blaming the team selectors or was she saying something about the athletes?

Scullion opting for 10,000 metres instead of marathon perhaps?

Duanington · 12-08-2018 10:07pm

Goose76 wrote: »

Scullion opting for 10,000 metres instead of marathon perhaps?

Deffo the one that stands out, you'd have to think the men would have challenged for a medal with him running well today

Sheridan81 · 12-08-2018 10:30pm

What did Jerry and Sonia say about Ciara Mageean after her race?

I really can't ever see her getting a medal in a major championship. It was a relatively weak 1500 field tonight. She seems to have no real kick.

Was she looking at the big screen when she was behind Weightman in the home straight? Seemed like she knew she wasn't going to catch her.

Strazdas · 12-08-2018 10:40pm

Sheridan81 wrote: »

What did Jerry and Sonia say about Ciara Mageean after her race?

I really can't ever see her getting a medal in a major championship. It was a relatively weak 1500 field tonight. She seems to have no real kick.

Was she looking at the big screen when she was behind Weightman in the home straight? Seemed like she knew she wasn't going to catch her.

Sonia seemed to hint that Ciara may have misjudged the race and should have tried to go with the break two laps out rather than leaving everything until the final lap, as she's not particularly known for having a sprint finish.

Hermy · 12-08-2018 10:43pm

Anyone know why the Czech team were DNS in the 4x100 final?

Carawaystick · 12-08-2018 10:48pm

Faugheen wrote: »

He'll probably win the European u20s next year with his first vault.

Well he already did that at the Worlds u20s...

The comraderie amoung the vaulters was special tonight, great sportsmanship, but that seems to run through the sport at all levels I've watched.

horsebox1977 · 12-08-2018 10:52pm

caviardreams wrote: »

Wow, interesting comments from Sonia there re the womens relay team (and possibly other events) putting individual goals above maximising the potential of the team

I don't really get what Sonia was saying, she appeared to be rambling a bit, and Collins or others never got her to elaborate.

The relay team in fairness are still VERY young and still broke the record, yet she appeared to throw them under the bus, for what reason I don't really know.

I can understand the point she was making in relation to the marathon with the athletes working as a team rather than individuals.

I thought the relay team did everything right.

Safiri · 12-08-2018 10:55pm

Sheridan81 wrote: »

What did Jerry and Sonia say about Ciara Mageean after her race?

I really can't ever see her getting a medal in a major championship. It was a relatively weak 1500 field tonight. She seems to have no real kick.

She already has a medal from Amsterdam

Sheridan81 · 12-08-2018 11:06pm

Good point, but I meant looking ahead.

I hope to see Cichocka get back to her form. I didn't think Muir was at her best but didn't need to be tonight.

I thought the RTE panelists were very good, better than BBc, but the commmetary was fairly poor. The BBC pundits Jess Ennis and Denise Lewis are quite bland and inoffensive, but Steve Cram's commentary is miles ahead of hapless Hamilton. I like Paula too.

I was disappointed to see Italy disqualified for the men's relay. They had a chance of a medal.

Great competition from the Poles. They're getting better and better.

Strazdas · 13-08-2018 12:11am

horsebox1977 wrote: »

I don't really get what Sonia was saying, she appeared to be rambling a bit, and Collins or others never got her to elaborate.

The relay team in fairness are still VERY young and still broke the record, yet she appeared to throw them under the bus, for what reason I don't really know.

I can understand the point she was making in relation to the marathon with the athletes working as a team rather than individuals.

I thought the relay team did everything right.

I couldn't quite figure out what she was saying about the 4 x 100m girls or who she was accusing. Was she suggesting that the best four girls in Ireland weren't on the team or something else?

echat · 13-08-2018 8:11am

The men's marathon team performed excellently and were only 4-5 minutes off the medals. However I think it is very unfair to criticise an athlete on national tv for choosing an individual final instead of a chance of helping the team in the marathon. Were athletes who ran the individual women's 400 criticised for not opting for the 4x400m (both finals were only an hour apart)?

The weather was torrid for the men's 10000m so 29:46 in those conditions was a really solid run.

An athlete goes through a huge amount of training, doubt, and frustration to get to that standard and then to be criticised a few minutes after finishing for not running in a different event was very unfair.

Hermy · 13-08-2018 10:48am

Hermy wrote: »

Anyone know why the Czech team were DNS in the 4x100 final?

Anyone?

walshb · 13-08-2018 10:57am

Sheridan81 wrote: »

What did Jerry and Sonia say about Ciara Mageean after her race?

I really can't ever see her getting a medal in a major championship. It was a relatively weak 1500 field tonight. She seems to have no real kick.

Was she looking at the big screen when she was behind Weightman in the home straight? Seemed like she knew she wasn't going to catch her.

Haven't see all that much of Muir, but from what I have, she comes across as a power runner as opposed to one with a real kick.

Braken · 13-08-2018 11:33am

Jerry Kiernan said he couldn't remember the last time Mageenan passed anyone in the straight...she doesn't have the kick that is required at this level, can not see her making a final at world or Olympic level...Sonia is correct regarding the men's marathon runners ,the team medal is their best chance there times are never going to get them individual medals...I like Kiernan he calls it as he sees it, he wouldn't last a day with the BBC where they fawn over their athletes regardless...when Michael Johnson
came first he was ok but he realised fairly quickly where his bread was buttered...

HelenAnne · 13-08-2018 11:41am

echat wrote: »

The men's marathon team performed excellently and were only 4-5 minutes off the medals. However I think it is very unfair to criticise an athlete on national tv for choosing an individual final instead of a chance of helping the team in the marathon. Were athletes who ran the individual women's 400 criticised for not opting for the 4x400m (both finals were only an hour apart)?

The weather was torrid for the men's 10000m so 29:46 in those conditions was a really solid run.

An athlete goes through a huge amount of training, doubt, and frustration to get to that standard and then to be criticised a few minutes after finishing for not running in a different event was very unfair.

Two men in the top 20 was great! I was delighted for them (especially my clubmate, Mick Clohisey). Jerry Kiernan said the same about Stephen Scullion in his speech at the Day of 5k PBs, and it's similar to things Derval O'Rourke has said before - that Ireland can probably only challenge for medals in team events, so we should concentrate on putting in good teams, and concentrate on 'controllables' like baton handover etc to increase our changes in relays.

robinph · 13-08-2018 12:07pm

Sheridan81 wrote: »

What did Jerry and Sonia say about Ciara Mageean after her race?

I really can't ever see her getting a medal in a major championship. It was a relatively weak 1500 field tonight. She seems to have no real kick.

Was she looking at the big screen when she was behind Weightman in the home straight? Seemed like she knew she wasn't going to catch her.

It was strange to watch Mageen. Weightman was done and had nothing left at all, Mageen pulled alongside and just appeared to jog in. When they showed the head on view Weightmans expression wasn't of finding a final last spurt of speed, it was just of being broken and trying to not fall over before the line, whilst Mageen just looked like she was out for a stroll and zero interest in racing for the line.

Peterx · 13-08-2018 12:16pm

robinph wrote: »

It was strange to watch Mageen. Weightman was done and had nothing left at all, Mageen pulled alongside and just appeared to jog in. When they showed the head on view Weightmans expression wasn't of finding a final last spurt of speed, it was just of being broken and trying to not fall over before the line, whilst Mageen just looked like she was out for a stroll and zero interest in racing for the line.

It looked to me (all credit to the armchair pundit) like she had used her matches in that earlier surge to get back within reach of the medals and was also running on fumes and was looking at the big screen to see if she'd be caught for 4th.

You could see in the Gillick interview she gave it everything, and I do mean everything

All in all a brilliant championships to view and fantastic to see so much minority sport on RTE.

Sonia obviously wanted to get that off her chest for a while, she was chef de mission before so was speaking from experience

4Ad · 13-08-2018 12:57pm

robinph wrote: »

It was strange to watch Mageen. Weightman was done and had nothing left at all, Mageen pulled alongside and just appeared to jog in. When they showed the head on view Weightmans expression wasn't of finding a final last spurt of speed, it was just of being broken and trying to not fall over before the line, whilst Mageen just looked like she was out for a stroll and zero interest in racing for the line.

So Macgeean didn't try for a medal at a major championship and had zero interest ? Happy with 4th...
I dont think so...

walshb · 13-08-2018 1:03pm

robinph wrote: »

It was strange to watch Mageen. Weightman was done and had nothing left at all, Mageen pulled alongside and just appeared to jog in. When they showed the head on view Weightmans expression wasn't of finding a final last spurt of speed, it was just of being broken and trying to not fall over before the line, whilst Mageen just looked like she was out for a stroll and zero interest in racing for the line.

Maybe I need to re-watch the race......

To me it looked like a strong hard race with 1 k to go......she tried and tried but she just didn't have the pace/stamina to medal....

Strazdas · 13-08-2018 1:03pm

Peterx wrote: »

It looked to me (all credit to the armchair pundit) like she had used her matches in that earlier surge to get back within reach of the medals and was also running on fumes and was looking at the big screen to see if she'd be caught for 4th.

You could see in the Gillick interview she gave it everything, and I do mean everything

All in all a brilliant championships to view and fantastic to see so much minority sport on RTE.

Sonia obviously wanted to get that off her chest for a while, she was chef de mission before so was speaking from experience

Watching back Mageean's race, I think her problems may have started as early as the second lap. She had been in a great position on the first lap, in the first three or four, but suddenly got bumped down a good few places (lack of concentration perhaps?). It meant with the massive injection of pace from Muir 800m out, she was in far from an ideal position and the effort to chase the leaders may have taken too much out of her.

I think Sonia was suggesting Ciara needed to be nearer to the front group two laps out and attempted to go with them. That second lap may have cost her.

robinph · 13-08-2018 1:32pm

4Ad wrote: »

So Macgeean didn't try for a medal at a major championship and had zero interest ? Happy with 4th...
I dont think so...

But that is what it looked like. Really didn't appear to be trying to get past Weightman, or was scared to.

If you are in 4th and chasing down 3rd, why are you wasting your effort looking at the screen? If you are in 4th you may as well be in 5th, you still don't medal, it really doesn't matter one bit who is coming up behind you. All you should be concentrating on is beating the person in 3rd who is clearly struggling. If you don't over take the person in 3rd then you'll not be 3rd, regardless of who may be overtaking you from behind.

With 50m to go she is up on the shoulder of Weightman and about to follow the other runner past her, then she backs off?!? There is no final sprint finish effort from her, she's just jogging in to the line.

There was a massive amount of work she'd had to do to get there admittedly, but she had Weightman beaten.

HelenAnne · 13-08-2018 1:37pm

robinph wrote: »

But that is what it looked like. Really didn't appear to be trying to get past Weightman, or was scared to.

If you are in 4th and chasing down 3rd, why are you wasting your effort looking at the screen? If you are in 4th you may as well be in 5th, you still don't medal, it really doesn't matter one bit who is coming up behind you. All you should be concentrating on is beating the person in 3rd who is clearly struggling. If you don't over take the person in 3rd then you'll not be 3rd, regardless of who may be overtaking you from behind.

With 50m to go she is up on the shoulder of Weightman and about to follow the other runner past her, then she backs off?!? There is no final sprint finish effort from her, she's just jogging in to the line.

There was a massive amount of work she'd had to do to get there admittedly, but she had Weightman beaten.

I very much doubt that she was just jogging in ... maybe she just doesn't show effort on her face in the same way Laura Weightman does ...

robinph · 13-08-2018 1:45pm

HelenAnne wrote: »

I very much doubt that she was just jogging in ... maybe she just doesn't show effort on her face in the same way Laura Weightman does ...

True, but the running style was not of someone sprinting for the line either. Just from the initial watching of the finish I thought she was backing off the pace before seeing the head on view.

Like I'd said though, it just looked weird. No telling what was actually going on pace/ effort wise in reality between all of them, but it looked odd and not as if she was trying to get to 3rd.

Strazdas · 13-08-2018 1:57pm

robinph wrote: »

True, but the running style was not of someone sprinting for the line either. Just from the initial watching of the finish I thought she was backing off the pace before seeing the head on view.

Like I'd said though, it just looked weird. No telling what was actually going on pace/ effort wise in reality between all of them, but it looked odd and not as if she was trying to get to 3rd.

I would still guess she had very little petrol in the tank in the last 50 metres.

Trying to chase down the leaders from 800m out to 400m out seems to have taken far more out of her than was obvious, hence the fact that she was fourth at the bell and still fourth at the finish line.

Itziger · 13-08-2018 2:00pm

Here's my tuppence worth. Yes, it does look a bit like she's not trying as hard as say Weightman is but I find that really hard to believe. From the head on shot we see Weightman moves out quite a bit to defend her third spot. I just wonder if C.M. wouldn't have had a small chance if she'd waited, gambled and darted for the inside in the last 15 metres. That's a lot easier to type than to execute though.

Strazdas · 13-08-2018 2:35pm

Itziger wrote: »

Here's my tuppence worth. Yes, it does look a bit like she's not trying as hard as say Weightman is but I find that really hard to believe. From the head on shot we see Weightman moves out quite a bit to defend her third spot. I just wonder if C.M. wouldn't have had a small chance if she'd waited, gambled and darted for the inside in the last 15 metres. That's a lot easier to type than to execute though.

I think she was simply running on empty in that last lap. She had a great chance to medal at the bell and even at 250m and 200m out but simply couldn't find anything when it mattered. Her running style is deceptive, she probably doesn't give off any visible signs when she is struggling and yet she was clearly wrecked in that RTE interview.

Even after the semi, I thought she sounded more out of breath than you would expect.....she always looks like she is cruising in races but it takes more out of her than you might think.

walshb · 13-08-2018 2:36pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I think she was simply running on empty in that last lap. She had a great chance to medal at the bell and even at 250m and 200m out but simply couldn't find anything when it mattered. Her running style is deceptive, she probably doesn't give off any visible signs when she is struggling and yet she was clearly wrecked in that RTE interview.

Even after the semi, I thought she sounded more out of breath than you would expect.....she always looks like she is cruising in races but it takes more out of her than you might think.

Too right. The 1500 is D ultimate test of a runner...

Strazdas · 13-08-2018 3:23pm

walshb wrote: »

Too right. The 1500 is D ultimate test of a runner...

Overall she gave it a great shot last night. Bronze was probably the best she could have managed and perhaps on another day it might have happened for her. Onward and upwards as she said herself after the race.

BeepBeep67 · 13-08-2018 5:46pm

Hermy wrote: »

Anyone know why the Czech team were DNS in the 4x100 final?

Heard their leg 1 runner suffered cramp shortly before the start.
It's too late at this stage to bring in the reserve.

Build up to Berlin European Championships

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