Those in jail should be forced to go litter picking.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 06:26PM #1

Went for a walk today along the dodder. The levels of plastic bottles, bags aluminum cans etc is astronomical. So it got me to thinking, why can’t we use people locked up in prison to go out and clean up these areas.
Obviously:
Under heavy supervision.
Low level offenders, ie no murderers rapists etc.

It seems they are a resource we pay for, by housing and feeding etc, but we get no return from them.

Fighting Tao · 12-08-2018 06:27PM

Or jail the people who litter.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 06:30PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Or jail the people who litter.

Which would completely fill up our jails within a short space of time.
Educating people not to litter and fining people has been tried but it’s obviously not working.
We’ve a resource we are not using that’s costing us money.

jacksie66 · 12-08-2018 06:31PM

This post has been deleted.

tuxy · 12-08-2018 06:31PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Under heavy supervision.
Low level offenders, ie no murderers rapists etc.

Have you any idea how much that would cost?
It would be a fraction of the cost to just pay more regular staff to clean the streets. Do you think it would be worth paying significantly more just to get convicts to do it?

freshpopcorn · 12-08-2018 06:31PM

I can't think of the official tittle but the guy who's in charge of the people doing community service occasional brings a little bus load of lads doing this near me.
Locals generally don't like the guys being in the area tough.

Fighting Tao · 12-08-2018 06:35PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Which would completely fill up our jails within a short space of time.
Educating people not to litter and fining people has been tried but it’s obviously not working.
We’ve a resource we are not using that’s costing us money.

Serious answers that way ->

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 12-08-2018 06:37PM

They had people 'sentenced' to community service picking litter around here. A total waste of time. They hardly picked up a single piece of litter; totally disinterested.

TheRiverman · 12-08-2018 06:40PM

Litter picking,cutting roadside hedges,grass and weeds,pulling ragworth.Get them out as chain gangs.

Doctors room ghost · 12-08-2018 06:41PM

Mariana Pitiful Desert wrote: »

They had people 'sentenced' to community service picking litter around here. A total waste of time. They hardly picked up a single piece of litter; totally disinterested.

That's where you need a few county mountys on horseback srameen and one of those big whips. And stay whipping the whole day long

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 12-08-2018 06:43PM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

That's where you need a few county mountys on horseback srameen and one of those big whips. And stay whipping the whole day long

That works on the guys sent out to dig the drains but just doesn't cut it with the litter pickers.

FFred · 12-08-2018 06:45PM

1) They will refuse to do it citing some kind of rights infringement
2) Council workers will not be happy
3) Insurance , who pays if (when) someone has an ‘accident’ ?
4) Supervision , do the screws have to do it ?

So..... No.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 06:51PM

tuxy wrote: »

Have you any idea how much that would cost?
It would be a fraction of the cost to just pay more regular staff to clean the streets. Do you think it would be worth paying significantly more just to get convicts to do it?

No. Obviously if it’s cheaper to get more regular staff that’s the answer.
But I don’t see how it wouldn’t be cheaper. The people picking up the litter would be no cost. The supervision could be at a ratio of 1 to 5, prison guard to prisoners, but a member of the defense forces could be on site also.
Regarding the defense forces I know they wouldn’t have powers of arrest but these prisoners are already in the jail system. They would be there as a deterrent for escape. Im sure members of the defense forces could be spared a couple at a time to go on these clean ups.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 06:52PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Serious answers that way ->

What?

Samuel T. Cogley · 12-08-2018 06:53PM

Let's pay millions more to let them out of prison. Well thought through.

McMurphy · 12-08-2018 06:57PM

tom1ie wrote: »

No. Obviously if it’s cheaper to get more regular staff that’s the answer.
But I don’t see how it wouldn’t be cheaper. The people picking up the litter would be no cost. The supervision could be at a ratio of 1 to 5, prison guard to prisoners, but a member of the defense forces could be on site also.
Regarding the defense forces I know they wouldn’t have powers of arrest but these prisoners are already in the jail system. They would be there as a deterrent for escape. Im sure members of the defense forces could be spared a couple at a time to go on these clean ups.

I think you're overthinking it.

If you want my opinion their should be schemes like this that are mandatory for long term dole collection folk to sign up to.

Every so often long term unemployed people should be made to partake in community work such as litter picking etc.

No need for the prisoners to be let out where they could get their hands on God knows what.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 06:59PM

FFred wrote: »

1) They will refuse to do it citing some kind of rights infringement
2) Council workers will not be happy
3) Insurance , who pays if (when) someone has an ‘accident’ ?
4) Supervision , do the screws have to do it ?

So..... No.

1) if they refuse they can loose their automatic remission on their sentence. If they actively partake, they can gain extra time off their sentence. They can work their way out of their sentence while gaining a sense of accomplishment and contributing to society.
2) I doubt the council clean along the banks of the dodder and other litter hotspots anyway. I’m not talking about getting them to clean up o Connell street or Tallaght village, parks and riverbanks first.
3) this is the tricky one. Not sure how you get around it but something like the prisoner looses all entitlement to bring a claim against the state springs to mind.
4) the screws would love to get out and about. Get some fresh air. Sweeten the deal with something like double time when they’re supervising a cleaning gang.

So.....yes.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 07:01PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I think you're overthinking it.

If you want my opinion their should be schemes like this that are mandatory for long term dole collection folk to sign up to.

Every so often long term unemployed people should be made to partake in community work such as litter picking etc.

No need for the prisoners to be let out where they could get their hands on God knows what.

Yeah I agree with the unemployed view aswell, but I think the low level dangerous prisoners should be allowed do this. In my previous post I said how it could actually aid them.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 07:02PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Let's pay millions more to let them out of prison. Well thought through.

Millions? How? Your well thought out statement has really put me in my place.

12-08-2018 07:06PM

tom1ie wrote: »

No. Obviously if it’s cheaper to get more regular staff that’s the answer.
But I don’t see how it wouldn’t be cheaper. The people picking up the litter would be no cost. The supervision could be at a ratio of 1 to 5, prison guard to prisoners, but a member of the defense forces could be on site also.
Regarding the defense forces I know they wouldn’t have powers of arrest but these prisoners are already in the jail system. They would be there as a deterrent for escape. Im sure members of the defense forces could be spared a couple at a time to go on these clean ups.

One prison officer to five prisoners??!
Seriously.
You don't know much about these things.........

freshpopcorn · 12-08-2018 07:09PM

I'd prefer to give the work to someone on social welfare who was trying to get employment and give them a few extra euro's a week!

FFred · 12-08-2018 07:10PM

tom1ie wrote: »

1) if they refuse they can loose their automatic remission on their sentence. If they actively partake, they can gain extra time off their sentence. They can work their way out of their sentence while gaining a sense of accomplishment and contributing to society.
2) I doubt the council clean along the banks of the dodder and other litter hotspots anyway. I’m not talking about getting them to clean up o Connell street or Tallaght village, parks and riverbanks first.
3) this is the tricky one. Not sure how you get around it but something like the prisoner looses all entitlement to bring a claim against the state springs to mind.
4) the screws would love to get out and about. Get some fresh air. Sweeten the deal with something like double time when they’re supervising a cleaning gang.

So.....yes.

Okay you’re completely right ... except it’s fcuking LOSE not LOOSE.

n!ghtmancometh · 12-08-2018 07:15PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I think you're overthinking it.

If you want my opinion their should be schemes like this that are mandatory for long term dole collection folk to sign up to.

Every so often long term unemployed people should be made to partake in community work such as litter picking etc.

No need for the prisoners to be let out where they could get their hands on God knows what.

They tried that with the Gateway scheme. I was unemployed at the time and was called up for it. Council staff were dismissive, rude and refused to work or supervise the Gateway people. Was called to a halt after about 3 weeks.

Offering opportunities for useful training to help unemployed get confidence and skills to get back to work is a better idea than punitive measures. But there's always pricks like you (funnily enough they tend to have never experienced the soul destroying existence on 188 a week) who want to kick people when they are down would rather the unemployed be humiliated.

Graces7 · 12-08-2018 07:18PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I'd prefer to give the work to someone on social welfare who was trying to get employment and give them a few extra euro's a week!

Hurray for some common sense !

Most villages/councils already have someone employed to be out first thing picking up; one of my former landlords was one such. He did a grand job..

It is in between towns that is a problem..

NB there is a sign up here on the island, awarding us a LITTER FREE status, and it is well deserved and grand.

corner of hells · 12-08-2018 07:21PM

tom1ie wrote: »

No. Obviously if it’s cheaper to get more regular staff that’s the answer.
But I don’t see how it wouldn’t be cheaper. The people picking up the litter would be no cost. The supervision could be at a ratio of 1 to 5, prison guard to prisoners, but a member of the defense forces could be on site also.
Regarding the defense forces I know they wouldn’t have powers of arrest but these prisoners are already in the jail system. They would be there as a deterrent for escape. Im sure members of the defense forces could be spared a couple at a time to go on these clean ups.

Just supposin' the lads all decided to leg it at the same time , do the prison officers and soldiers just chase one of the prisoners or all of them ?

Star Bingo · 12-08-2018 07:26PM

Given an alternative of scoopin up dogs faeces with their bare hands they’d soon see it as glitter picking

TheRiverman · 12-08-2018 07:28PM

FFred wrote: »

1) They will refuse to do it citing some kind of rights infringement
2) Council workers will not be happy
3) Insurance , who pays if (when) someone has an ‘accident’ ?
4) Supervision , do the screws have to do it ?

So..... No.

Council workers,what are they?.The certainly don't exist in West Offaly where the rural roads are a disgrace,no roadside grass margins or hedges cut this year,road repairs and resurfacing almost non existent.

Pa8301 · 12-08-2018 07:29PM

Mariana Pitiful Desert wrote: »

That works on the guys sent out to dig the drains but just doesn't cut it with the litter pickers.

What we got here is a failure to communicate.

Doctors room ghost · 12-08-2018 07:33PM

corner of hells wrote: »

Just supposin' the lads all decided to leg it at the same time , do the prison officers and soldiers just chase one of the prisoners or all of them ?

In an ideal world the officers would pull the trigger on a fully automatic weapon and keep her pulled until the running stops.then get chain gang b out to dig a mass grave to bury the runners from chain gang a in.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 07:33PM

bubblypop wrote: »

One prison officer to five prisoners??!
Seriously.
You don't know much about these things.........

So you ignored the bit about the defense forces. Good man.

tom1ie · 12-08-2018 07:36PM

FFred wrote: »

Okay you’re completely right ... except it’s fcuking LOSE not LOOSE.

Lol! My bad. Don’t loose your head over it though

Those in jail should be forced to go litter picking.

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