Bus Eireann - is this normal?

TheQuietFella · 11-08-2018 02:10PM

devnull wrote: »

That doesn't explain what has been said on this thread in relation to buses carrying on if there was enough passengers on the bus. Driver hours regulations don't say that one rule applies if there are x amounts of passengers on the bus and another rule applies if there are y passengers on the bus.

Even if it was about drivers hours though that is still a problem for the company who are putting staff convenience ahead of that of passengers, because they should be designing rosters in a way to ensure that it does not happen and to operate the timetable as advertised and as their license requires them to.

Would this conversation be taking place if the passenger had not lost their ticket?

Shpud2 · 11-08-2018 02:11PM

BowWow wrote: »

Young daughter going from Cork to Dublin Airport, but not for a flight? Daughter not used to travelling on a coach, gets flustered, wont stand up for herself etc. so Mother lets her away on her own. And all this is the driver and BE's fault?

I think there is more to this story.

Plausible alternative - Daughter gets off in Busaras, realises she's in the wrong place, but too late, bus and driver have gone off duty as no passengers remain on board. So blames driver...

I'm no fan of BE, but natural justice would demand the other side of this tale...

She could have been meeting someone off a flight.

TheQuietFella · 11-08-2018 02:12PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

The issue could have been sorted by BE implementing a simple system which allows drivers issue a simple transfer voucher to allow passengers continue their journey

That's why we are given a ticket when we pay our fare!

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-08-2018 02:12PM

BowWow wrote: »

Young daughter going from Cork to Dublin Airport, but not for a flight? Daughter not used to travelling on a coach, gets flustered, wont stand up for herself etc. so Mother lets her away on her own. And all this is the driver and BE's fault?

I think there is more to this story.

Plausible alternative - Daughter gets off in Busaras, realises she's in the wrong place, but too late, bus and driver have gone off duty as no passengers remain on board. So blames driver...

I'm no fan of BE, but natural justice would demand the other side of this tale...

That’s thoroughly implausible. Nobody would mistake busarus for an airport. And we know that this happens because one of the posters, defending BE, says it does.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-08-2018 02:14PM

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Would this conversation be taking place if the passenger had not lost their ticket?

She had no reason to get off the bus in the first place if it were doing what it was licensed to do.

Does anybody know what the NTA contract on this is?

end of the road · 11-08-2018 02:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You are missing my point. The 8X which I am on stops at Busaras. It is due to leave again in a few minutes, at the same time as 2 more busses, all stopping at the airport next. IF there’s room on one of those busses for 2 or 3 more, why not transfer them. We still get there at the same time. If there’s not room on either of the other busses (they seem to hold one only, usually the Sligo one and only for a few minutes) then the 8X continues to the airport.

because realistically the 8x is advertised and licenced to operate to the airport. thats it's actual terminus. i see what you are saying and in theory it's a valid point but if the bus is advertised to go somewhere then unless there is an actual legitimate reason for it not to do so then it should go, even if there is only 1 passenger on board. the return journey may have lots of passengers on board, and that bus not going to the airport is capacity lost which means the passengers waiting at the airport have to take up capacity elsewhere, possibly causing others to be left behind.

BowWow wrote: »

Young daughter going from Cork to Dublin Airport, but not for a flight? Daughter not used to travelling on a coach, gets flustered, wont stand up for herself etc. so Mother lets her away on her own. And all this is the driver and BE's fault?

I think there is more to this story.

Plausible alternative - Daughter gets off in Busaras, realises she's in the wrong place, but too late, bus and driver have gone off duty as no passengers remain on board. So blames driver...

I'm no fan of BE, but natural justice would demand the other side of this tale...

well, of course your suggestion could be true. however the version of events the op gave could also be true. we just don't know for sure, and realistically, we are never going to know for sure.

BowWow · 11-08-2018 02:23PM

For the record - I don't like Bus Eireann.

However I don't for a moment accept that a driver and bus that are roistered to go to the airport can just be abandoned by said driver at an earlier stop!
Transport companies work to schedules - that bus may well have had to do an airport - Cork run at a certain time. Drivers cant just take breaks, change timetables, and leave buses when they feel like it. There are only a certain amount of stands in Busaras, drivers just don't park up.

In the rush to blame BE and the driver people are not thinking straight here.

This story doesn't add up - Mammy needs to sit down with daughter and get the info...

BowWow · 11-08-2018 02:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

well, of course your suggestion could be true. however the version of events the op gave could also be true. we just don't know for sure, and realistically, we are never going to know for sure.

Exactly!

But lets not let that stand in the way of lynching the driver

Stephen15 · 11-08-2018 02:41PM

end of the road wrote: »

because realistically the 8x is advertised and licenced to operate to the airport. thats it's actual terminus. i see what you are saying and in theory it's a valid point but if the bus is advertised to go somewhere then unless there is an actual legitimate reason for it not to do so then it should go, even if there is only 1 passenger on board. the return journey may have lots of passengers on board, and that bus not going to the airport is capacity lost which means the passengers waiting at the airport have to take up capacity elsewhere, possibly causing others to be left behind.

I don't think it would have happened if the driver had to do another scheduled run from the airport. If that's the case then I would agree that the driver or whoever in BE who ordered this is completely out of order.

My suspicion would be that the bus on a tight schedule in order to get back to Broadstone for refuelling and back on the road for the next trip. The OP does not specify the time of the day which this happened so it perhaps could have been coming up to rush hour and driver or inspector may have felt that if there were not a significant number of passengers going to the airport that the bus may have to finish early in order to get back to depot and on the road again in ample time. Drivers hours are another possibility.

11-08-2018 02:45PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't think it would have happened if the driver had to do another scheduled run from the airport. If that's the case then I would agree that the driver or whoever in BE who ordered this is completely out of order.

My suspicion would be that the bus on a tight schedule in order to get back to Broadstone for refuelling and back on the road for the next trip. The OP does not specify the time of the day which this happened so it perhaps could have been coming up to rush hour and driver or inspector may have felt that if there were not a significant number of passengers going to the airport that the bus may have to finish early in order to get back to depot and on the road again in ample time. Drivers hours are another possibility.

OP said that it was the 4pm from Cork, which wouldn’t be back on the road again that night.

Wishbone Ash · 11-08-2018 02:48PM

BowWow wrote: »

Young daughter going from Cork to Dublin Airport, but not for a flight? Daughter not used to travelling on a coach, gets flustered, wont stand up for herself etc. so Mother lets her away on her own. And all this is the driver and BE's fault?

I think there is more to this story.

Plausible alternative - Daughter gets off in Busaras, realises she's in the wrong place, but too late, bus and driver have gone off duty as no passengers remain on board. So blames driver...

I'm no fan of BE, but natural justice would demand the other side of this tale...

We live fairly near the airport hence the reason she was going there. She got that service from the airport to Cork a few days earlier. She mighten travel much by bus but knows the difference between Busaras and Dublin Airport.

BTW - I'm her father not her mother!

strandroad · 11-08-2018 02:51PM

BowWow wrote: »

For the record - I don't like Bus Eireann.

However I don't for a moment accept that a driver and bus that are roistered to go to the airport can just be abandoned by said driver at an earlier stop!

Read the thread; other people are reporting such experiences too. It is indeed unbelievable in how the customer is treated, but it is happening.

It's not just BE either, it's a broader issue where passengers and their plans or comfort are simply not valued at all. I used to take the 39A daily and it would be very common to board the bus to go to the end as scheduled, only for it to suddenly terminate in the city centre. Try explaining it to some confused foreigners on the bus... comedy gold.

Stephen15 · 11-08-2018 02:54PM

Can I ask why was she using BE from Cork to Dublin and not Aircoach or GoBE both of which serve the airport and are far quicker and I don't think there's too much difference in price. I thought the BE service was more for the intermidate towns.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-08-2018 02:59PM

BowWow wrote: »

For the record - I don't like Bus Eireann.

However I don't for a moment accept that a driver and bus that are roistered to go to the airport can just be abandoned by said driver at an earlier stop!
Transport companies work to schedules - that bus may well have had to do an airport - Cork run at a certain time. Drivers cant just take breaks, change timetables, and leave buses when they feel like it. There are only a certain amount of stands in Busaras, drivers just don't park up.

In the rush to blame BE and the driver people are not thinking straight here.

This story doesn't add up - Mammy needs to sit down with daughter and get the info...

Ffs. The poster Maryanne says this happens all the time and she’s ok with it.

Your counter theory is nonsense.

Wishbone Ash · 11-08-2018 02:59PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Can I ask why was she using BE from Cork to Dublin and not Aircoach or GoBE both of which serve the airport and are far quicker and I don't there's too much difference in price. I thought the BE service was more for the intermidate towns.

She was travelling to and from Mitchelstown, Co Cork. Perhaps the other services don't stop in Mitchelstown.

Either way, it's irrelevant. Bus Eireann advertise that their service is the best way to Dublin Airport (or words to that effect).

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-08-2018 03:00PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Can I ask why was she using BE from Cork to Dublin and not Aircoach or GoBE both of which serve the airport and are far quicker and I don't think there's too much difference in price. I thought the BE service was more for the intermidate towns.

Why does it matter? That service goes to the airport too.

JayRoc · 11-08-2018 03:07PM

BowWow wrote: »

I don't for a moment accept that a driver and bus that are roistered to go to the airport can just be abandoned by said driver at an earlier stop!
ands in Busaras, drivers just don't park up.
...

Other posters have already pointed out that this sort of thing happens all the time.

Why do posts describing perfectly plausible (albeit highly unprofessional and annoying) situations always result in someone telling us that it's totally unbelievable and "there must be more to this story!"?

Sundew · 11-08-2018 03:11PM

I used to use BE weekly to and from Dublin as a student. They earned a fortune out of me....stopped using them around 2003 because of incident similar to this, most drivers were the absolute salt of the earth, but one or two on the Athlone/ Dublin route certainly should have been called out/ reported by me or others...but I just boycotted the company instead. Haven't been on a BE bus in 15 years!
If it was my young daughter and that same scenario had happened at night,then I would be furious. BE certainly have a duty of care to passengers!

Yer Da sells Avon · 11-08-2018 03:11PM

BowWow wrote: »

This story doesn't add up - Mammy needs to sit down with daughter and get the info...

I find it hard to believe that the people doubting this story have ever used public transport in this country. I've lost count of the number of similar experiences I've had on Dublin Bus services, especially if I'm the last passenger on the bus and it isn't doing a return trip.

strandroad · 11-08-2018 03:13PM

JayRoc wrote: »

Why do posts describing perfectly plausible (albeit highly unprofessional and annoying) situations always result in someone telling us that it's totally unbelievable and "there must be more to this story!"?

In fairness to the poster this type of situation is hard to believe in, unless you're exposed to the Irish bus transport for a little while. Passengers are expected to be meek and accommodating, however inconvenienced they are; it should not be the norm, but it is.

devnull · 11-08-2018 03:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You are missing my point. The 8X which I am on stops at Busaras. It is due to leave again in a few minutes, at the same time as 2 more busses, all stopping at the airport next. IF there’s room on one of those busses for 2 or 3 more, why not transfer them. We still get there at the same time. If there’s not room on either of the other busses (they seem to hold one only, usually the Sligo one and only for a few minutes) then the 8X continues to the airport.

No, I'm not missing the point whatsoever. You are missing the point since you are purely looking at it from the companies point of view and the staff points of view and I am looking at it from the customers point of view for what supposedly is a public transport service.

If a service is timetabled to call at a place that service should call at said place and no passenger should have to disembark the vehicle to get on another bus and load and unload their luggage, this will take at least a few minutes if a Bus is ready and by your own admission the passengers of the Sligo bus will have to wait through no fault of their own for other passengers from another bus, potentially delaying them as well whilst the 'connection; is held.

A license for a commercial service says you either serve a destination or you don't. It doesn't say that a company can choose if they want to serve it or not based on the number of passengers on the bus and whatever they decide on the day. I need to read the licensing guidelines in further detail to see if short running is even allowed since it may well not be.

Del2005 · 11-08-2018 03:27PM

This forum constantly complains about people using cars for unnecessary journeys and are now complaining when a bus company doesn't use a bus for an unnecessary journey. Is it right to send an 55 seater coach to a destination for 1 passenger when there's space on another bus going to the same destination?

The OP admits that their child was most likely using earphones so could have missed the details of the bus change being announced over the PA.

PlaneSpeeking · 11-08-2018 03:31PM

Del2005 wrote: »

This forum constantly complains about people using cars for unnecessary journeys and are now complaining when a bus company doesn't use a bus for an unnecessary journey. Is it right to send an 55 seater coach to a destination for 1 passenger when there's space on another bus going to the same destination?

The OP admits that their child was most likely using earphones so could have missed the details of the bus change being announced over the PA.

If you get on at one point and the service is going to that route and you buy a ticket - at any indeterminate point in the journey they cannot decide to stop and chuck you off.

This is basic service - how can anyone aside from transport union shills defend this????

11-08-2018 03:34PM

devnull wrote: »

No, I'm not missing the point whatsoever. You are missing the point since you are purely looking at it from the companies point of view and the staff points of view and I am looking at it from the customers point of view for what supposedly is a public transport service.

If a service is timetabled to call at a place that service should call at said place and no passenger should have to disembark the vehicle to get on another bus and load and unload their luggage, this will take at least a few minutes if a Bus is ready and by your own admission the passengers of the Sligo bus will have to wait through no fault of their own for other passengers from another bus, potentially delaying them as well whilst the 'connection; is held.

A license for a commercial service says you either serve a destination or you don't. It doesn't say that a company can choose if they want to serve it or not based on the number of passengers on the bus and whatever they decide on the day. I need to read the licensing guidelines in further detail to see if short running is even allowed since it may well not be.

I suppose that I see nothing wrong as I get to my destination on time.

I don’t know the ins and outs of licensing. In my mind, it’s wasteful for three busses to go the same route when 2 will do. Carbon footprint and all that.

JayRoc · 11-08-2018 03:35PM

Del2005 wrote: »

This forum constantly complains about people using cars for unnecessary journeys and are now complaining when a bus company doesn't use a bus for an unnecessary journey. Is it right to send an 55 seater coach to a destination for 1 passenger when there's space on another bus going to the same destination?

The OP admits that their child was most likely using earphones so could have missed the details of the bus change being announced over the PA.

The onus is hardly on the passenger to listen out for an announcement they had no reason to expect, for goodness' sake.

A proper professional would have made sure that his passenger was taken care of properly which this girl obviously wasn't.

Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to ask someone in this situation to switch to another service going to the same destination once there is no delay to them.

But just dumping someone in busaras without making sure they get on an alternative service is taking the mick.

strandroad · 11-08-2018 03:38PM

Del2005 wrote: »

This forum constantly complains about people using cars for unnecessary journeys and are now complaining when a bus company doesn't use a bus for an unnecessary journey. Is it right to send an 55 seater coach to a destination for 1 passenger when there's space on another bus going to the same destination?

The solution to this is to review the load on routes and re-timetable if there is no demand. Not to do a "sorry love that's it" on a paying passenger who's on the way to where they need to be.

devnull · 11-08-2018 03:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose that I see nothing wrong as I get to my destination on time.

So you think that passengers and their luggage magically teleport from one bus to another immediately and they do not have to get off and on one bus and then on to another, often with reduced mobility, with nobody to help with their heavy luggage, and the passengers on the other bus who have to wait for them to do this, are not delayed either?

Quite frankly the fact that people here believe that kind of lack of customer service is acceptable astounds me and if this is the belief of Bus Eireann themselves, then it's hardly a surprise that many have a bad opinion of them and believe that the company is run for the benefit of the staff rather than the public.

I don’t know the ins and outs of licensing. In my mind, it’s wasteful for three busses to go the same route when 2 will do. Carbon footprint and all that.

But it's exceptionally poor customer service when potentially on the return service when such incident happens, that customers at the airport are left by the roadside waiting a long time for the next bus because other passengers are taking up space on their bus and getting off at Busaras to get on their bus that should have started at the airport in the first place.

That's before we get into the fact that Bus Eireann are not authorised to transfer passengers at Busaras in order to travel to Dublin Airport. Their licenses specifically prevent this with pick up only and set down only conditions.

strandroad · 11-08-2018 03:53PM

devnull wrote: »

So you think that passengers and their luggage magically teleport from one bus to another immediately and they do not have to get off and on one bus and then on to another, often with reduced mobility, with nobody to help with their heavy luggage, and the passengers on the other bus who have to wait for them to do this, are not delayed either?

Quite frankly the fact that people here believe that kind of lack of customer service is acceptable astounds me and if this is the belief of Bus Eireann themselves, then it's hardly a surprise that many have a bad opinion of them and believe that the company is run for the benefit of the staff rather than the public.

It's a living relict of the past kind of a mindset. It goes back to 1960s... many OAPs still have this attitude now. Sure if you have all the time in the world and only a vague destination or timing ("see the relatives", "go shopping in town"), you can treat the bus trip as a magical journey type of experience where any extra action or chat with the driver only adds to its entertainment value. You're meek because it's rude to have expectations and sure isn't everyone trying their best.

Only that BE/DB never grew out of it and if you're actually trying to get from A to B on time you're screwed.

11-08-2018 04:04PM

devnull wrote: »

So you think that passengers and their luggage magically teleport from one bus to another immediately and they do not have to get off and on one bus and then on to another, often with reduced mobility, with nobody to help with their heavy luggage, and the passengers on the other bus who have to wait for them to do this, are not delayed either?

Quite frankly the fact that people here believe that kind of lack of customer service is acceptable astounds me and if this is the belief of Bus Eireann themselves, then it's hardly a surprise that many have a bad opinion of them and believe that the company is run for the benefit of the staff rather than the public.

But it's exceptionally poor customer service when potentially on the return service when such incident happens, that customers at the airport are left by the roadside waiting a long time for the next bus because other passengers are taking up space on their bus and getting off at Busaras to get on their bus that should have started at the airport in the first place.

That's before we get into the fact that Bus Eireann are not authorised to transfer passengers at Busaras in order to travel to Dublin Airport. Their licenses specifically prevent this with pick up only and set down only conditions.

It was the 4pm bus. It wouldn’t be returning to Cork until the morning. I’ve never seen any passengers left unaided in the transfer from one bus to another.
I think some are making a big issue where there isn’t one. A couple of people changing from one bus to another with all passengers reaching their destination on time. Where is the problem??

PlaneSpeeking · 11-08-2018 04:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

So you think that passengers and their luggage magically teleport from one bus to another immediately and they do not have to get off and on one bus and then on to another, often with reduced mobility, with nobody to help with their heavy luggage, and the passengers on the other bus who have to wait for them to do this, are not delayed either?

Quite frankly the fact that people here believe that kind of lack of customer service is acceptable astounds me and if this is the belief of Bus Eireann themselves, then it's hardly a surprise that many have a bad opinion of them and believe that the company is run for the benefit of the staff rather than the public.

But it's exceptionally poor customer service when potentially on the return service when such incident happens, that customers at the airport are left by the roadside waiting a long time for the next bus because other passengers are taking up space on their bus and getting off at Busaras to get on their bus that should have started at the airport in the first place.

That's before we get into the fact that Bus Eireann are not authorised to transfer passengers at Busaras in order to travel to Dublin Airport. Their licenses specifically prevent this with pick up only and set down only conditions.

It was the 4pm bus. It wouldn’t be returning to Cork until the morning. I’ve never seen any passengers left unaided in the transfer from one bus to another.
I think some are making a big issue where there isn’t one. A couple of people changing from one bus to another with all passengers reaching their destination on time. Where is the problem??

SERIOUSLY????

You run a service, you don't get a chance to pick and choose when you provide said service.

Bus Eireann - is this normal?

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