Bus Eireann - is this normal?

Wishbone Ash

Hi all,

My 16 year old daughter was travelling alone on the 4pm service from Cork to Dublin Airport this evening. When the bus reached Busaras all other passengers disembarked. The driver then informed her that he wasn't going to Dublin Airport with one passenger and told her to get an alternative bus. She told him she wasn't familiar with BE services so he pointed to a Donegal bus and suggested she get on it as it was going via the airport. That driver said he was going on his break and wouldn't be leaving for an hour.

She's a quiet girl and wouldn't have the wherewithal to stand up for herself. She also not accustomed to travelling by bus so was a bit upset about the whole thing.

To add insult to injury, in her flustered state, she left her ticket on the first bus and the second driver said he wouldn't be bringing her without a ticket.
She wasn't getting a flight but it may have been awkward for anyone who was.

Is it normal for a driver to terminate a service if there is only one passenger?

Thanks.

ED E

"Please fill in our webform..."

Sooner GA take over from the former CIEs the better.

TheQuietFella

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Hi all,

My 16 year old daughter was travelling alone on the 4pm service from Cork to Dublin Airport this evening. When the bus reached Busaras all other passengers disembarked. The driver then informed her that he wasn't going to Dublin Airport with one passenger and told her to get an alternative bus. She told him she wasn't familiar with BE services so he pointed to a Donegal bus and suggested she get on it as it was going via the airport. That driver said he was going on his break and wouldn't be leaving for an hour.

She's a quiet girl and wouldn't have the wherewithal to stand up for herself. She also not accustomed to travelling by bus so was a bit upset about the whole thing.

To add insult to injury, in her flustered state, she left her ticket on the first bus and the second driver said he wouldn't be bringing her without a ticket.
She wasn't getting a flight but it may have been awkward for anyone who was.

Is it normal for a driver to terminate a service if there is only one passenger?

Thanks.

Ridiculous post!

Stephen15

ED E wrote: »

"Please fill in our webform..."

Sooner GA take over from the former CIEs the better.

GA are only taking over 6 BE certain routes. The Dublin-Cork route is not one of them either.

boombang

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Ridiculous post!

Why?

zoe 3619

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Ridiculous post!

Could you expand on that?

Stephen15

Are GoBE and Aircoach not the better bet from Dublin to Cork

Franz Von Peppercorn

call them. thats atrocious behaviour.

Peregrinus

It's not unreasonable that a transport operator should be able to made adjustments in response to patterns of demand so as to operate efficiently. It makes no sense at all to run an entire bus out to the Airport and back for the convenience of just one passenger if there are other buses going out to which she can transfer. So merging two services into one, and asking the passengers from one to transfer, is basically reasonable.

But if they are going to do this, they have to do it properly. It's outrageous to ask passengers to wait an hour for a connecting service; you have to transfer them to a service that will get them to their destination at or close to the scheduled time. And when the affected passenger is a minor, I think they have a responsibility to assist her in making the transfer if she needs assistance.

I'd complain about this, definitely.

Cookie_Monster

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's not unreasonable that a transport operator should be able to made adjustments in response to patterns of demand so as to operate efficiently. It makes no sense at all to run an entire bus out to the Airport and back for the convenience of just one passenger if there are other buses going out to which she can transfer. So merging two services into one, and asking the passengers from one to transfer, is basically reasonable.

But if they are going to do this, they have to do it properly. It's outrageous to ask passengers to wait an hour for a connecting service; you have to transfer them to a service that will get them to their destination at or close to the scheduled time. And when the affected passenger is a minor, I think they have a responsibility to assist her in making the transfer if she needs assistance.

I'd complain about this, definitely.

if the bus is scheduled to run the the airport it's more than likely scheduled to start its next run from there. So it's not just that one passenger, they could be leaving X number stranded at the airport due to a missing departure as well.

Pretty poor stuff from BE and the driver in particular. I wouldn't let it go, complain to BE and the NTA

Stephen15

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if the bus is scheduled to run the the airport it's more than likely scheduled to start its next run from there. So it's not just that one passenger, they could be leaving X number stranded at the airport due to a missing departure as well.

Pretty poor stuff from BE and the driver in particular. I wouldn't let it go, complain to BE and the NTA

But perhaps that bus was due to go back to depot after the driver finished their shift. If it was due to do a return trip from the airport the driver would probably have gone there.

The driver should have been more more proactive and he should told the girl not to forget her ticket and assisted her with any bags etc. but in principal I see where he's coming from, it would be a waste of fuel if the bus went to the airport and if there was another bus going there at the same time.

It's happened a few times on DB buses where if buses are bunched together the bus with the fewer passengers is transferred on to the other bus it makes if it's properly communicated. I've also been transferred on the Luas at Sandyford and the DART at Bray when coming from Greystones it's not a big deal.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Happened to me on a BE Cork City service too.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/105999563

I’m a regular user of this bus. It rarely goes to Airport. I’m always shown to another bus by the driver. My ticket is never checked. The driver rings ahead to check what, if any bus his passengers should take. That bus then waits and passengers told which one to get.

devnull

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Ridiculous post!

If you don't have something constructive to say, don't say anything at all - we expect better standards of posting from around here.

Wishbone Ash

Thanks for the replies all.

I can perfectly understand BE transferring a passenger to another service that's going in the same direction at roughly the same time but to just tell a passenger (especially a minor who isn't familiar with buses or Busaras) to get another bus is shoddy. I'd expect the driver to escort her to the alternative bus and to explain the situation to the other driver.

The cynic in me thinks it's nothing to do with saving fuel but more likely that the driver saw it as an opportunity to finish his shift earlier.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Ridiculous post!

Please enlighten me!

Franz Von Peppercorn

Surely he also has a duty of care to minors.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Surely he also has a duty of care to minors.

How was the driver to know that he was carrying an unaccompanied minor?

As I already posted, I and family members use this bus (assuming it’s the 4pm 8X) on a regular basis over the past 4 years. The driver always knows if he’s got Airport passengers. I’ve heard him umpteen times ring ahead with his ETA and to check if he’d any bus heading to Airport. There’s always a porter on hand to point out what bus to get on. If there’s no bus available, the driver continues on himself, although this is rare.

john boye

If you've paid for an expressway trip to the airport then you're entitled to expect an express trip to the airport and not be turfed off and wait for another bus.

Wishbone Ash

Deleted User wrote: »

How was the driver to know that he was carrying an unaccompanied minor?...

He may not have know that she was a minor but she was the only passenger left on the bus and was approached by the driver while she waited in her seat to travel onwards to the airport.

(My daughter didn't hear him making any contact with Busaras in advance, but then again, she wouldn't have been listening out for it. Like most teenagers, she probably had earphones in place anyway).

devnull

Deleted User wrote: »

As I already posted, I and family members use this bus (assuming it’s the 4pm 8X) on a regular basis over the past 4 years. The driver always knows if he’s got Airport passengers. I’ve heard him umpteen times ring ahead with his ETA and to check if he’d any bus heading to Airport. There’s always a porter on hand to point out what bus to get on. If there’s no bus available, the driver continues on himself, although this is rare.

The bus should go to the airport itself because that is how it is timetabled to do so, the passengers should not have to be turfed out and get on or wait for another bus to connect them to the airport, the passenger should come before any staff convenience.

But on the other hand management shouldn't even tolerate such practice, they should roster the driver for the entire route and if he is rostered then he should do the whole route regardless of how many passengers are onboard.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

He may not have know that she was a minor but she was the only passenger left on the bus and was approached by the driver while she waited in her seat to travel onwards to the airport.

(My daughter didn't hear him making any contact with Busaras in advance, but then again, she wouldn't have been listening out for it. Like most teenagers, she probably had earphones in place anyway).

The wearing of headphones might explain the confusion. Believe me when I say that they always inform passengers of the bus change and show them which bus to get. They cannot leave someone waiting an hour if they’ve got a plane to catch.

devnull

devnull wrote: »

The bus should go to the airport itself because that is how it is timetabled to do so, the passengers should not have to be turfed out and get on or wait for another bus to connect them to the airport, the passenger should come before any staff convenience.

But on the other hand management shouldn't even tolerate such practice, they should roster the driver for the entire route and if he is rostered then he should do the whole route regardless of how many passengers are onboard.

Where is the logic in one bus going to the airport with one passenger when another is going at the same time with empty seats?

devnull

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the logic in one bus going to the airport with one passenger when another is going at the same time with empty seats?

Do you think that buses should follow timetables or they should be able to ignore them if there is not enough passengers on the bus and tell them there is not enough people on the bus?

Also there have been occasions that I have heard about where passengers have had to get out and wait for another bus for up to 10 minutes which is unacceptable when the bus they are on is scheduled to go to their destination.

Try looking at it from the passengers point of view rather than that of the company and the staff. What if the passenger had limited mobility? Getting on one bus and on another would inconvenience them.

wirelessdude01

Would guess there may have also been an element of child protection here, both for the child and the driver. Was badly handled by the driver though.

devnull

devnull wrote: »

Do you think that buses should follow timetables or they should be able to ignore them if there is not enough passengers on the bus and tell them there is not enough people on the bus?

Also there have been occasions that I have heard about where passengers have had to get out and wait for another bus for up to 10 minutes which is unacceptable when the bus they are on is scheduled to go to their destination.

Try looking at it from the passengers point of view rather than that of the company and the staff. What if the passenger had limited mobility? Getting on one bus and on another would inconvenience them.

If the passengers get to their destination on time, I see no problem with changing at Busaras. If there’s no bus leaving within minutes of our arrival at Busaras, then the original bus continues on.

As regards child protection, did the bus driver know that he was carrying an unaccompanied minor?

end of the road

ED E wrote: »

"Sooner GA take over from the former CIEs the better.

won't be happening. GA will only ever have a certain amount of routes, and they are effectively told how the routes must operate by the NTA. they haven't even started to operate any routes yet.

OldMrBrennan83

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the passengers get to their destination on time, I see no problem with changing at Busaras. If there’s no bus leaving within minutes of our arrival at Busaras, then the original bus continues on.

As regards child protection, did the bus driver know that he was carrying an unaccompanied minor?

Is an express service ticket not more expensive?

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

Is an express service ticket not more expensive?

I don’t know. This is the only one I use. I don’t think it’s an express service as it has a number of stops.

john boye

end of the road wrote: »

won't be happening. GA will only ever have a certain amount of routes, and they are effectively told how the routes must operate by the NTA.

Hopefully they'll actually operate the routes as advertised.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

The bus should go to the airport itself because that is how it is timetabled to do so, the passengers should not have to be turfed out and get on or wait for another bus to connect them to the airport, the passenger should come before any staff convenience.

But on the other hand management shouldn't even tolerate such practice, they should roster the driver for the entire route and if he is rostered then he should do the whole route regardless of how many passengers are onboard.

How do you it was for staff convience, perhaps the driver was only following orders from the inspector on duty. We don't know the full story here there could be a maintence defect with the bus meaning it needed to go back to the depot as soon as possible.

BarryD2

Report the incident with the time and route of the bus etc. Get this investigated and if applicable this driver should get their ass burnt. That's no way to treat a fare paying passenger of minor age.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

How do you it was for staff convience, perhaps the driver was only following orders from the inspector on duty.

Maybe he was, but it still isn't a great experience for the customer, and at the end of the day, if the driver didn't make the decision then another staff member did, so it's still staff convenience and company convenience.

We don't know the full story here there could be a maintence defect with the bus meaning it needed to go back to the depot as soon as possible.

Well there are posts in this thread that suggest that it is far from a rare event on one particular service and I've heard of it happening a few times as well, either BE just keep having maintenance problems that just co-incidentally keeps happening on the same departure or there is something more to it.

The fact that according to another poster there is an element of forward planning to trying to see if another bus is leaving for the airport on another route suggests it's not maintenance issue in these cases, as does the claim that if there is no bus to join the bus will continue anyway. If it needs urgent maintenance attention it cannot continue.

Out of curiosity what buses do people from services such as the X8 transfer to in these kind of situations, is it other Expressway buses or PSO services? I assume it would have to be the former.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How was the driver to know that he was carrying an unaccompanied minor?

As I already posted, I and family members use this bus (assuming it’s the 4pm 8X) on a regular basis over the past 4 years. The driver always knows if he’s got Airport passengers. I’ve heard him umpteen times ring ahead with his ETA and to check if he’d any bus heading to Airport. There’s always a porter on hand to point out what bus to get on. If there’s no bus available, the driver continues on himself, although this is rare.

He met the unaccompanied minor.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Stephen15 wrote: »

How do you it was for staff convience, perhaps the driver was only following orders from the inspector on duty. We don't know the full story here there could be a maintence defect with the bus meaning it needed to go back to the depot as soon as possible.

Come on. Someone said this was common. A bus to the airport should be the last bus to play these kinds of shenanigans. Some older people would have to get off with very large number of luggage and back on again.

Stephen15

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Come on. Someone said this was common. A bus to the airport should be the last bus to play these kinds of shenanigans. Some older people would have to get off with very large number of luggage and back on again.

I would say it is likely part BE's cost saving strategy. Really the timetable should reflect this and not go to the airport

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Come on. Someone said this was common. A bus to the airport should be the last bus to play these kinds of shenanigans. Some older people would have to get off with very large number of luggage and back on again.

In my experience, there was always someone there to help with luggage and with being pointed to correct bus.

Wishbone Ash

Stephen15 wrote: »

.... there could be a maintence defect with the bus meaning it needed to go back to the depot as soon as possible.

Hardly likely as the driver wouldn't have said he wasn't going to the airport with just one passenger.

kub

Just as well there are competitors on this route.
I have my doubts that the OP's daughter will use BE again on this route.

Stephen15

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Hardly likely as the driver wouldn't have said he wasn't going to the airport with just one passenger.

That could be unofficial company policy

Wishbone Ash

Stephen15 wrote: »

That could be unofficial company policy

I'd imagine if I was a driver, I'd be far more likely to say that there's a fault with the bus rather than say I'm not going to the airport with one passenger.

Stephen15

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd imagine if I was a driver, I'd be far more likely to say that there's a fault with the bus rather than say I'm not going to the airport with one passenger.

It could be an unwritten rule which management have told drivers to observe do not take passengers to the airport if there's less than x amount after the BE restructuring they may be looking at various different cost saving measures to save on fuel.

ED E

Stephen15 wrote: »

GA are only taking over 6 BE certain routes. The Dublin-Cork route is not one of them either.

Yet.

TheQuietFella

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Could you expand on that?

In my opinion the driver must have been close to his driving hour limit or maybe he had gone over them, thus the need to stop and rest! Secondly he correctly re-directed the passenger to another bus that was going to the airport. It's hardly his problem if the passenger lost her ticket? He is not there to baby sit his passengers but maybe her Mother should have brought her to the airport?

I wonder where she was going to when she got to the airport?
This is a classic example of over-parenting children. You let them out in the big bad world and when things go wrong they just can't think for themselves!

ED E

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would say it is likely part BE's cost saving strategy. Really the timetable should reflect this and not go to the airport

Stephen15 wrote: »

It could be an unwritten rule which management have told drivers to observe do not take passengers to the airport if there's less than x amount after the BE restructuring they may be looking at various different cost saving measures to save on fuel.

Random excuse 678...
Random excuse 679...

Clearly BE can do no wrong in your eyes. The fanboyism is seriously strong on this sub.

BarryD2 wrote: »

Report the incident with the time and route of the bus etc. Get this investigated and if applicable this driver should get their ass burnt. That's no way to treat a fare paying passenger of minor age.

Discipline isnt a word that exists in the semi state domain.

TheQuietFella

devnull wrote: »

The bus should go to the airport itself because that is how it is timetabled to do so, the passengers should not have to be turfed out and get on or wait for another bus to connect them to the airport, the passenger should come before any staff convenience.

But on the other hand management shouldn't even tolerate such practice, they should roster the driver for the entire route and if he is rostered then he should do the whole route regardless of how many passengers are onboard.

And again, driving hours!

Stephen15

ED E wrote: »

Yet.

The route in question is a commercial Expressway route, so unless BE decide to sell their commercial enterprise to GAI it's unlikely

Stephen15

The issue could have been sorted by BE implementing a simple system which allows drivers issue a simple transfer voucher to allow passengers continue their journey

devnull

TheQuietFella wrote: »

And again, driving hours!

That doesn't explain what has been said on this thread in relation to buses carrying on if there was enough passengers on the bus. Driver hours regulations don't say that one rule applies if there are x amounts of passengers on the bus and another rule applies if there are y passengers on the bus.

Even if it was about drivers hours though that is still a problem for the company who are putting staff convenience ahead of that of passengers, because they should be designing rosters in a way to ensure that it does not happen and to operate the timetable as advertised and as their license requires them to.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

TheQuietFella wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

The bus should go to the airport itself because that is how it is timetabled to do so, the passengers should not have to be turfed out and get on or wait for another bus to connect them to the airport, the passenger should come before any staff convenience.

But on the other hand management shouldn't even tolerate such practice, they should roster the driver for the entire route and if he is rostered then he should do the whole route regardless of how many passengers are onboard.

And again, driving hours!

He's over the driving hours from driving a bus for his rostered shift on timetabled routes, then that's an organisational failure on BE's part.

But feckit, be grumpy and make it the passenger's problem. Yep, sounds like bus Eireann.

n!ghtmancometh

Well, if they continue to treat their fare paying passengers like this they won't have a commercial service for too long anyway, thankfully.

Imagine faffing about like this with a time critical service like a bus to the airport? Ridiculous that people are actually defending such practices.

Wishbone Ash

TheQuietFella wrote: »

In my opinion the driver must have been close to his driving hour limit or maybe he had gone over them, thus the need to stop and rest!

That's hardly anything to do with passengers. The bus was on time so presumably the route was designed to accommodate driver's hours.

Secondly he correctly re-directed the passenger to another bus that was going to the airport.

He didn't initially. He merely told her that she'd have to find another bus. He only directed her to the Donegal bus after she asked where to go and that bus wasn't leaving for another hour.

It's hardly his problem if the passenger lost her ticket?

I didn't say it was.

He is not there to baby sit his passengers but maybe her Mother should have brought her to the airport?

So expecting to be brought to your destination is now 'babysitting'?

I wonder where she was going to when she got to the airport?

What relevance is that?