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Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

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Comments

  • #1052
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    MFPM wrote: »
    Do you apply such binary analysis to all situations, if it's not x it must be y?

    in this case it would appear to be a combination of x and y.


  • #1053
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Over 600 fb friends and no offers of a bed


  • #1054
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    MFPM wrote: »
    Thank you for that lucid and insightful contribution make sure to close the door as you leave, ta.

    It is insightful, even though its sarcastic. Lack of personal responsibility causes problems. There are lots of people who mind children and lots who don't, using your children for a photo opportunity is a form of abuse, if you want a debate you can have one, but if you cant see the obvious, there is no point in me stating the obvious.


  • #1055
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,306 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    The kids aren't enrolled to start in any school in September, yet were all dressed in school uniforms.


  • #1056
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    In fairness many who offered accommodation are actively still hosting these refugees. The people who did offer DID in fact follow through on their offer.



    In fairness again there's very few people can offer accommodation this woman & her gang of kids. Then their father gets out of prison, what are you going to do ban him from the house? No I can't see too many willing to get involved with this woman
    Never mind the in fairness talk. There are many individuals homeless who just needed a room but the Joe Duffy do gooders arent interested in them. Their need isn't sexy enough to be discussing over dinner how you are helping the homeless situation.
    Does our ex President still have the holiday home in Roscommon? Loads of room there


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  • #1057
    Abel Ruiz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭Abel Ruiz


    I saw Eoghan Murphy posted a pic online. He had a box of coors light and loads of vodka, and said he was on his way to his mate's gaf. "P1ss up in Leo's, wers me hunzos at"

    He's a disgrace, he shouldn't be on social media going drinking for the weekend. A minister on Instagram. Tut tut, a disgrace I say!!!!
    He should be giving stupid people large houses, where they want to live, and for free. That's his job!!!!!


  • #1058
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Mysterypunter wrote: »
    It is insightful, even though its sarcastic. Lack of personal responsibility causes problems. There are lots of people who mind children and lots who don't, using your children for a photo opportunity is a form of abuse, if you want a debate you can have one, but if you cant see the obvious, there is no point in me stating the obvious.

    if people took responsibility for their own lives there would be less of a role for the state. this would be ideologically problematic for a lot of people who want ever increasing state control and interference in the lives of citizens. the more people suckling at the teat, the more milk is needed.


  • #1059
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Edgware wrote: »
    Never mind the in fairness talk. There are many individuals homeless who just needed a room but the Joe Duffy do gooders arent interested in them. Their need isn't sexy enough to be discussing over dinner how you are helping the homeless situation.
    Does our ex President still have the holiday home in Roscommon? Loads of room there

    Roscommon isn’t Talla.


  • #1060
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Omackeral wrote: »
    So stop having half a dozen kids when you've no job, no intention of working and have been on a housing list for more than a decade.
    Tbh, I hate this line of argument.

    It's classic "middle class privilege". There's a reason why there's a strong correlation (worldwide) between income and family size, and education and family size.

    That is, wealthier people with better education tend to have less children.

    Because poorer people with poor education, half the time aren't even aware they have a choice.

    Sex education, family planning, budgeting, future planning. They're not ignoring these things - they literally don't even know what they are.

    How can someone be criticised for not making a choice that they never knew they had?

    A woman with 7 kids and no money to pay the rent buying a box of booze and getting hammered while the landlord is banging on the door, does not paint a picture of someone who understands the meaning of the word "consequences". It's not negligence on her part; that assumes she understands what's happening.

    Now, obviously she's a person, and an adult, so we can't treat her like a child or an animal and make choices for her. Life has consequences, and everyone, as adults, must take those on the chin. But at the same time we have to recognise that she has not come from where we have. And that applying the same standards to her as we do to ourselves is unfair, because we started life halfway up the ladder, where she started it at the bottom.
    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Over 600 fb friends and no offers of a bed
    The article posted yesterday gives me a little more sympathy for her, assuming she's being somewhat honest. If she has shunned the traveller life and opted to settle, then she may very well be cut off from most of her family and friends. 600 facebook friends may translate to 10 or 15 people she actually knows and interacts with on a personal basis. And how many of them have the space for a family of nine for an indefinite duration?

    I think the main issue here is that this family clearly have a definite need for housing, but whoever selected them as a poster case for the cause failed to "clean up" their situation and present it honestly. Instead they just saw the pictures and rubbed their hands with glee.


  • #1061
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    A new day, a new set of families made homeless, a new set of families will be told to head to the nearest Garda station, either now or in the future.

    Are we any closer to solving the crisis?

    No?

    Ok, carry on with the victim blaming.


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  • #1062
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    dav3 wrote: »
    A new day, a new set of families made homeless, a new set of families will be told to head to the nearest Garda station, either now or in the future.

    Are we any closer to solving the crisis?

    No?

    Ok, carry on with the victim blaming.

    this particular lady's crisis is of her own making


  • #1063
    La Haine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 244 ✭✭La Haine


    Ah here – I just saw this!

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=457945&d=1533884366


  • #1064
    massy086
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭massy086


    La Haine wrote: »
    Ah here – I just saw this!

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=457945&d=1533884366
    But it's her right to be housed.lol makes me sick


  • #1065
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,046 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    La Haine wrote: »
    Ah here – I just saw this!

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=457945&d=1533884366

    Ah here. The issue is this serial criminal should be in prison at this stage and the kids rehomed.

    Thanks for shedding light on this ones “lifestyle”


  • #1066
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I do realise that it is the Silly Season, but honestly this debacle did not need to be reported all day either.

    Journos need to get their act together and research before reporting.

    The sinister side of this, is that no one will call them out for fear of racism and PC rules.

    We are fkn doomed to live with a one sided view of everything now, unless we discuss on places like this.

    Great little country. A dictatorship of views really.

    Great post. We are caught between a rock and hard place. The journalists and politicians wont say what people are thinking and yet social media becomes a complete mob witch hunt where only extreme views are tolerated.


  • #1067
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    dav3 wrote: »
    A new day, a new set of families made homeless, a new set of families will be told to head to the nearest Garda station, either now or in the future.

    Are we any closer to solving the crisis?

    No?

    Ok, carry on with the victim blaming.

    Some of us are quite reasonably making the distinction between genuine victims of this crisis, many of whom are working and earn too much to receive even 1c of assistance from the State, and those who are irresponsible in their own situations. We have clear and pre-existing evidence that Margaret Cash is irresponsible in many ways, although I very much sympathise with her children who didnt choose to have her for a mother.

    'Victim blaming' is a term coined from certain quarters to shut down debate on an issue, any issue, so as to obviate full analysis of contributors to difficult problems. Without full analysis in these things, we are only fooling ourselves that progress will genuinely be made.


  • #1068
    boombang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭boombang


    seamus wrote: »
    Tbh, I hate this line of argument.
    Because poorer people with poor education, half the time aren't even aware they have a choice.

    Sex education, family planning, budgeting, future planning. They're not ignoring these things - they literally don't even know what they are.

    How can someone be criticised for not making a choice that they never knew they had?

    Ah here, are you saying poor MS Cash literally doesn't know what the pill is what a Johnny's for, but manages to contact journalists with evidence of her kids sleeping in a Garda station?


  • #1069
    gmcdaid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭gmcdaid


    seamus wrote: »
    Tbh, I hate this line of argument.

    It's classic "middle class privilege". There's a reason why there's a strong correlation (worldwide) between income and family size, and education and family size.

    That is, wealthier people with better education tend to have less children.

    Because poorer people with poor education, half the time aren't even aware they have a choice.

    Sex education, family planning, budgeting, future planning. They're not ignoring these things - they literally don't even know what they are.

    How can someone be criticised for not making a choice that they never knew they had?

    A woman with 7 kids and no money to pay the rent buying a box of booze and getting hammered while the landlord is banging on the door, does not paint a picture of someone who understands the meaning of the word "consequences". It's not negligence on her part; that assumes she understands what's happening.

    Now, obviously she's a person, and an adult, so we can't treat her like a child or an animal and make choices for her. Life has consequences, and everyone, as adults, must take those on the chin. But at the same time we have to recognise that she has not come from where we have. And that applying the same standards to her as we do to ourselves is unfair, because we started life halfway up the ladder, where she started it at the bottom.

    The article posted yesterday gives me a little more sympathy for her, assuming she's being somewhat honest. If she has shunned the traveller life and opted to settle, then she may very well be cut off from most of her family and friends. 600 facebook friends may translate to 10 or 15 people she actually knows and interacts with on a personal basis. And how many of them have the space for a family of nine for an indefinite duration?

    I think the main issue here is that this family clearly have a definite need for housing, but whoever selected them as a poster case for the cause failed to "clean up" their situation and present it honestly. Instead they just saw the pictures and rubbed their hands with glee.

    These are all very valid points.

    The State has a role to play when people haven't the cop on the look after themselves.

    The question that arises is whether or not there are limits to that responsibility. If facilitating irresponsible behaviour enables even more irresponsible behaviour, is it not wise to question that approach? Is there any point at which you allow consequences to inform the behaviour of the individual?

    Note, I'm talking about the mother here, not the kids. The State never allow kids to be victims.


  • #1070
    Reati
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭Reati


    dav3 wrote: »
    Are we any closer to solving the crisis?

    The homeless crisis that affects less than .5% of the population yet gets a consistent lions share of the media airtime. I'm very much in favour of social security for those who need it but this country is truly out of control on this topic.
    dav3 wrote: »
    carry on with the victim blaming.

    Who or what is she a victim of exactly?


  • #1071
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What happened to the house that she got only last month?


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  • #1072
    Reati
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭Reati


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What happened to the house that she got only last month?

    Kitchen island wasn't big enough.


  • #1073
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,541 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/homeless-family-garda-station-4172480-Aug2018/%3famp=1

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AnthonyICHH/status/1027616082616639488

    She’s got a place for now anyway.
    That’s how you work the system.


  • #1074
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    dav3 wrote: »
    A new day, a new set of families made homeless, a new set of families will be told to head to the nearest Garda station, either now or in the future.

    Are we any closer to solving the crisis?

    No?

    Ok, carry on with the victim blaming.


    What time are you heading out to work Dav?
    You know, to help us pay for these free homes.


  • #1075
    MFPM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭MFPM


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    in this case it would appear to be a combination of x and y.

    You see what you want to see such is your subjectivity.


  • #1076
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gmcdaid wrote: »
    The question that arises is whether or not there are limits to that responsibility. If facilitating irresponsible behaviour enables even more irresponsible behaviour, is it not wise to question that approach? Is there any point at which you allow consequences to inform the behaviour of the individual?
    Sure, but punishment rarely corrects ignorance.

    Mechanisms should kick in at certain points that identify people who are likely to end up in circumstances of extreme need - for example a family long-term unemployed or continually unemployed who have their fourth child should automatically trigger monthly visits from a social worker. Whose remit is, apart from ensure the welfare of the children, to try and educate the parents (mother especially) of the graveness of their situation, and the importance of contraception - perhaps even as far as encouraging long-term contraceptive methods like the coil or the snip. All of which should be completely free and accessible of course.

    If the social worker is happy that at some point the family understands the seriousness of the situation but continues to have children, then it should move to place any new children into care immediately after birth until/unless the parents can prove their long-term capability to care for them.


  • #1077
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Tbh, I hate this line of argument.

    It's classic "middle class privilege".

    Middle class privilege would ya stop. I was raised in a completely working class area with just my mother looking after us kids and do you know what she did? She worked her arse off to provide for us. Do you know what she didn't do? Buy stupid tacky sh*t and pick up a plethora of bench warrants.

    So miss me with that middle class privilege stuff. I'm working class... with the emphasis on the word working.


  • #1078
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What happened to the house that she got only last month?

    The council had the gall to only pay 2/3rds of the rent!! FFS!!!


  • #1079
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Tbh, I hate this line of argument.

    It's classic "middle class privilege". There's a reason why there's a strong correlation (worldwide) between income and family size, and education and family size.

    That is, wealthier people with better education tend to have less children.

    Because poorer people with poor education, half the time aren't even aware they have a choice.

    What education do we (supposedly middle class) receive which tells us that we cannot financially afford to have 6 children? As I said earlier, I can't think of any classes in primary, secondary or university which taught me those practical considerations.

    Instead, I knew that I would need to work, save money, etc before I could afford a house, support a family etc.
    Sex education, family planning, budgeting, future planning. They're not ignoring these things - they literally don't even know what they are.

    They know as much as the rest of us. Unless you're comparing them to people in rural Africa or Asia, where education or access to media is extremely limited. People in Ireland have access to all the information they need to be aware of sex education, family planning, etc... Definitely as much as any middle class family.
    How can someone be criticised for not making a choice that they never knew they had?

    Not when you find excuses for them....
    A woman with 7 kids and no money to pay the rent buying a box of booze and getting hammered while the landlord is banging on the door, does not paint a picture of someone who understands the meaning of the word "consequences". It's not negligence on her part; that assumes she understands what's happening.

    Now, obviously she's a person, and an adult, so we can't treat her like a child or an animal and make choices for her. Life has consequences, and everyone, as adults, must take those on the chin. But at the same time we have to recognise that she has not come from where we have. And that applying the same standards to her as we do to ourselves is unfair, because we started life halfway up the ladder, where she started it at the bottom.

    Life is unfair. We apply those same standards because that's what life should be for anyone living in a modern nation like Ireland.

    And yes, I was lucky in my parents. That they saved their money, bought that house, and had a small family. That they maintained jobs they didn't particularly enjoy to bring in the income to provide for their family. And my parents didn't come from money... life is what you make of it... and people today have far more options to improve than those of past generations.
    The article posted yesterday gives me a little more sympathy for her, assuming she's being somewhat honest. If she has shunned the traveller life and opted to settle, then she may very well be cut off from most of her family and friends. 600 facebook friends may translate to 10 or 15 people she actually knows and interacts with on a personal basis. And how many of them have the space for a family of nine for an indefinite duration?

    I think the main issue here is that this family clearly have a definite need for housing, but whoever selected them as a poster case for the cause failed to "clean up" their situation and present it honestly. Instead they just saw the pictures and rubbed their hands with glee.

    She does have a need for accommodation. A house, though? That's simply more of this entitlement issue. She should be expected to be living within her means. Like the rest of us. I lived three years in a single room apartment with the toilet being outside the building. I lived within the means I had at the time. I didn't expect anyone to magically provide me with a house or a better apartment simply because my circumstances weren't ideal.

    She has a need for a job, someone/somewhere to look after her children, and... classes in personal responsibility. Not for us simply to provide her with an income, a house, and a free pass on those responsibilities.


  • #1080
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Its the guards fault. If they had picked her up for the bench warrants she would have accommodation in the Joy


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  • #1081
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Middle class privilege would ya stop. I was raised in a completely working class area
    Middle/working class, whatever, you know what I mean.
    with just my mother looking after us kids and do you know what she did? She worked her arse off to provide for us.
    Awesome. A great mother like yours is something this woman didn't have.

    Like I say, you started halfway up the ladder. Education level of the primary carer is the no. 1 factor in determining the long-term prognosis for any individual.

    If someone is born into a family where the primary carer has little or no education, the child is going to find it next to impossible to rise above that level; how can you, when you've never been given the tools?

    This is where the state has to step in and break that cycle.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    And yes, I was lucky in my parents.
    And that, right there, is your privilege. And my privilege. And everyone else's on this thread.

    This woman was not lucky in her parents. If you had the parents she did, you'd have a gaggle of kids and be living in hovel right now.

    That's the fundamental point that the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" brigade miss. 90% of your success is down to luck and circumstance. Not hard work.


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