Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 09:54AM

StringerBell wrote: »

He doesn't actually moan as much as he is made out to moan.

I think he can be very, very blunt, and when he's annoyed, he will just say whatever is bothering him. Which can be defined as "moaning", but a lot of the time, his concerns are genuine. And a lot of the time "moaning" is used to dismiss his concerns by people who just don't like him and want to paint everything he does in a negative light.

Fitz* · 09-08-2018 09:56AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

"You (media) are capable of making people who finished 2nd look like they got relegated + people who finished below us look like serial winners."

He's not wrong

A lot of it is stemming from the negative atmosphere and moaning that stems from Mourinho himself. He is the one that has started all that talk, the complains when the media run with it. :rolleyes:

yourdeadwright · 09-08-2018 10:01AM

FitzShane wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

"You (media) are capable of making people who finished 2nd look like they got relegated + people who finished below us look like serial winners."

He's not wrong

A lot of it is stemming from the negative atmosphere and moaning that stems from Mourinho himself. He is the one that has started all that talk, the complains when the media run with it. :rolleyes:

This is correct but id imagine its because Jose knows how far he can take this squad and is dampening expectations to cut himself slack if the United fail ,
United is such a huge club if they finish without a trophy and come 3rd its a failure, Where for example for Liverpool (I'm a fan) or Spurs that's still a decent season,
United has such high demands due to there own recent success Jose possible knows with this squad he can't meet them ,

09-08-2018 10:04AM

You have to wonder if it wasn't just the United fans waiting for José to speak today...

StringerBell · 09-08-2018 10:05AM

FitzShane wrote: »

A lot of it is stemming from the negative atmosphere and moaning that stems from Mourinho himself. He is the one that has started all that talk, the complains when the media run with it. :rolleyes:

He didn't though, he spoke plenty last season sarcastically mocking the media at the end about how maybe contrary to what you read in the media they weren't so bad, that he wasn't so bad etc

This season it is clear he wanted players to push for a title challenge and that has not happened, I have no idea why you want him to be sunshine and lollipops in that regard. We are not a worse team than last year, we are better but we are not strengthened enough to close the gap to City which is what he wants, its what I want and I would have thought it is what every United fan would want.

I know he can be abrasive and he can rub people up the wrong way but in general what he says tends to be spot on but not dressed up in any nice words so he is there to be shot at.

Even today he has mentioned it again how teams that finish second can be portrayed as relegation teams whereas teams who finished below them get plenty of praise, there is nothing wrong in that statement. It does him no favors with the press and a certain section of the fans but really, I don't give a toss either way.

We should have capitalised on our best finish in years and we haven't, we will probably now be in a battle for second place instead of first which is hardly what any of us wants, including the manager.

jayo26 · 09-08-2018 10:05AM

I don't get this thing about him moaning.... would we prefer a manager that went around smiling and happy for not winning things?

The man wants to win and he is going into his defining year with a few players he wanted not brought in let him moan the only thing I don't want him moaning about from now on in is his players he has what he has now so they have to be treated right unless they deserve it if course.

Lukker- · 09-08-2018 10:08AM

jayo26 wrote: »

I don't get this thing about him moaning.... would we prefer a manager that went around smiling and happy for not winning things?

The man wants to win and he is going into his defining year with a few players he wanted not brought in let him moan the only thing I don't want him moaning about from now on in is his players he has what he has now so they have to be treated right unless they deserve it if course.

What if it affects the team though? There has to be a balance, these are opinions he can take up with the board in private. Conte was guilty of it last season too and I think it badly affected Chelsea's performances.

clubberlang12 · 09-08-2018 10:09AM

Liam O wrote: »

You have to wonder if it wasn't just the United fans waiting for José to speak today...

A few unsurprising visitors here this morning alright

adox · 09-08-2018 10:21AM

Ah lads everyone should be allowed to comment on the club no matter who they support.

From the brief reading of Jose`s comments this morning, he is partly responsible for the attitude of the press. Hes already down talked the squad and said we wont be able to compete if we dont make additions.(true as that may be)

Unless I`m reading it wrong(Im in work so only glancing at things) he cant really run with the narrative pre season that we additions or wont be able to compete without additions and then complain about the press down playing Utds chances this season based on the window they have had.

StringerBell · 09-08-2018 10:24AM

Lukker- wrote: »

What if it affects the team though? There has to be a balance, these are opinions he can take up with the board in private. Conte was guilty of it last season too and I think it badly affected Chelsea's performances.

Going from players who have commented on it, there is a balance. What he says to the media is not what he says to the players. You of all people should know how Jose operates?

Fitz* · 09-08-2018 10:26AM

StringerBell wrote: »

He didn't though, he spoke plenty last season sarcastically mocking the media at the end about how maybe contrary to what you read in the media they weren't so bad, that he wasn't so bad etc

This season it is clear he wanted players to push for a title challenge and that has not happened, I have no idea why you want him to be sunshine and lollipops in that regard. We are not a worse team than last year, we are better but we are not strengthened enough to close the gap to City which is what he wants, its what I want and I would have thought it is what every United fan would want.

I know he can be abrasive and he can rub people up the wrong way but in general what he says tends to be spot on but not dressed up in any nice words so he is there to be shot at.

Even today he has mentioned it again how teams that finish second can be portrayed as relegation teams whereas teams who finished below them get plenty of praise, there is nothing wrong in that statement. It does him no favors with the press and a certain section of the fans but really, I don't give a toss either way.

We should have capitalised on our best finish in years and we haven't, we will probably now be in a battle for second place instead of first which is hardly what any of us wants, including the manager.

Of course that what is wanted, and expected after finishing 2nd. Every team has to improve and tbf United probably have. Didn't lose any player, and brought in a couple of players.

Why more players were not brought in for whatever reason, no one can be 100% sure as we are looking from the outside in.

Personally I think it is because Jose is looking at short term-ism (Bale 29, Sanchez 29, Alderweild 29, Boateng 30, Sandro 27) whereas the club/board whoever wants more long terms targets like Martial, Pogba, Lindelof, Lukaku etc. There is always that lingering doubt over whether Jose will even last the 3rd full season or not. Surely that has a big impact on the transfer strategy?

09-08-2018 10:27AM

adox wrote: »

Ah lads everyone should be allowed to comment on the club no matter who they support.

From the brief reading of Jose`s comments this morning, he is partly responsible for the attitude of the press. Hes already down talked the squad and said we wont be able to compete if we dont make additions.(true as that may be)

Unless I`m reading it wrong(Im in work so only glancing at things) he cant really run with the narrative pre season that we additions or wont be able to compete without additions and then complain about the press down playing Utds chances this season based on the window they have had.

It was more the 2 of them coming in at the same time talking about negative high level things that bear no real relevance to the press conference. Irked me. Seemed slightly agenda driven and regurgitated. I did actually have to check that they weren't United fans, which shows how gloomy this place has gotten recently that they didn't immediately stick out.

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 10:27AM

adox wrote: »

Unless I`m reading it wrong(Im in work so only glancing at things) he cant really run with the narrative pre season that we additions or wont be able to compete without additions and then complain about the press down playing Utds chances this season based on the window they have had.

I think jose's point is probably there's no spectrum with the press.

He's not saying we'll be able to challenge easily. But when you see people on here acting as if we'll have a real struggle to even get near the top 4, rather than probably just have another comfortable if uninspiring top 4 finish, then I think that's his frustration.

He's annoyed with whats happening, and you can see how desperately he wants to actually win a league title instead of settling, but some of the press are making out as if we'll be doing well to even win a game this season.

ANd hey, they do that because negative stuff sells stronger than positive stuff with regards United. ABUs lap it up, and a significant section of the United fan base seem to want to be angry with things (which is not, before I'm jumped upon, saying there's not genuine problems. There's a nuance there).

ericzeking · 09-08-2018 10:29AM

This window is the club beginning the process of moving JM on, if he actually quits it will be all the better for them as they won't have to pay him off. He was brought in to provide instant success like he did everywhere else (ref.signing Ibrahimovic). Jose is/was the 'hired gun' if you will. That didn't really arrive, rather, an improvement in results to get into the top 4 and a couple of secondary targets. Jose was hired to win the title. It looks unlikely that he is going to get there so now the board are making the call that his methods (replace Martial with William) aren't worth punting even more money on. I'd be shocked if he's still manager this time next year.

StringerBell · 09-08-2018 10:30AM

adox wrote: »

Ah lads everyone should be allowed to comment on the club no matter who they support.

From the brief reading of Jose`s comments this morning, he is partly responsible for the attitude of the press. Hes already down talked the squad and said we wont be able to compete if we dont make additions.(true as that may be)

Unless I`m reading it wrong(Im in work so only glancing at things) he cant really run with the narrative pre season that we additions or wont be able to compete without additions and then complain about the press down playing Utds chances this season based on the window they have had.

See, heres the thing for me. He has never made any claims to the extent that United will have a disaster of a season due to not getting in all the players he wanted, he has said if they don't strengthen it will be a difficult season. Could we agree that he would be speaking in relation to his goals for the season being difficult and that his goals would be league and cup success?

He has always been very strong in the fact that he does not believe the team or himself ever gets the credit it deserves from the media only criticism, alluded to again by saying how they can make a team who finished second seem like a relegation one.

He feels we won't be able to compete properly now for the title, not that we are going to finish mid table or some other end of the world scenario. I may be wrong but that is how I have read his comments all summer and today based on how he has spoken since last season about the club, where it is at and where he wants to bring it.

United were comfortably the second best team in England last season, this is often forgotten. That is not good enough however or something to celebrate for me, and obviously not for the manager. He wants to be number 1, his goals revolve around being number 1 so when he speaks about not being able to compete of how it will be difficult I take that as in relation to his goals. He points to others strengthening as evidence that what we have done is not enough to close the gap.

Is it enough to maintain? Very possibly, but that is not the target for him.

Mr.H · 09-08-2018 10:30AM

I really dont understand the negativity. You guys have a brilliant team ffs.

DaGea
Darmian - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw

Matic

Fred

Pogba
Martial

Sanchez

Lukaku

With players like; Mata, Herrera, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Smalling, Jones and Rojo, who could all easily fit into that side.

Jesus I cant believe I am talking ye up ffs. United have a great team that could easily challenge for the title as is. In fact if City where not so good ye would have won it last season! Like ourselves, ye just need to be more consistent this year. I hope ye are not and I hate the Moaning one but I have never seen such doom and gloom around a top class side. Ye have talent all over that team if ye choose to use it.

StringerBell · 09-08-2018 10:34AM

FitzShane wrote: »

Of course that what is wanted, and expected after finishing 2nd. Every team has to improve and tbf United probably have. Didn't lose any player, and brought in a couple of players.

Why more players were not brought in for whatever reason, no one can be 100% sure as we are looking from the outside in.

Personally I think it is because Jose is looking at short term-ism (Bale 29, Sanchez 29, Alderweild 29, Boateng 30, Sandro 27) whereas the club/board whoever wants more long terms targets like Martial, Pogba, Lindelof, Lukaku etc. There is always that lingering doubt over whether Jose will even last the 3rd full season or not. Surely that has a big impact on the transfer strategy?

Long term is fine if you are happy to accept that it is long term, and that short term success is not likely. That is clearly not going to be an option, Jose knows this, he has set the bar with 2nd last season. He knows that second is not going to be good enough for many this season and they will quickly forget about the long term with a demand for short term success.

Thats football.

There has got to be a balance imo, having younger players with potential is always needed but as is having older experienced heads to guide them and to help them through difficult periods in games and seasons. There has got to be balance in squads to win things.

deaddonkey15 · 09-08-2018 10:36AM

Mr.H wrote: »

I really dont understand the negativity. You guys have a brilliant team ffs.
DaGea
Darmian - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw
Matic
Fred
Pogba
Martial
Sanchez
Lukaku

With players like; Mata, Herrera, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Smalling, Jones and Rojo, who could all easily fit into that side.

Jesus I cant believe I am talking ye up ffs. United have a great team that could easily challenge for the title as is. In fact if City where not so good ye would have won it last season! Like ourselves, ye just need to be more consistent this year. I hope ye are not and I hate the Moaning one but I have never seen such doom and gloom around a top class side. Ye have talent all over that team if ye choose to use it.

Agree 100%.

Cantona's Collars · 09-08-2018 10:41AM

Chris Winterburn:

"A small update from me on Yerry Mina future over at @MARCAinENGLISH with Everton move likely but player still hoping for late MUFC twist. http://www.marca.com/en/football"

Trigger · 09-08-2018 10:41AM

adox wrote: »

Ah lads everyone should be allowed to comment on the club no matter who they support.

From the brief reading of Jose`s comments this morning, he is partly responsible for the attitude of the press. Hes already down talked the squad and said we wont be able to compete if we dont make additions.(true as that may be)

Unless I`m reading it wrong(Im in work so only glancing at things) he cant really run with the narrative pre season that we additions or wont be able to compete without additions and then complain about the press down playing Utds chances this season based on the window they have had.

He never actually said that, selective quoting by the media and also others here on boards

He was asked if he didn’t get his signings would he be able to compete and he said that it will be difficult but yes it’s possible..

The media (and people on boards) took him saying it would be difficult to mean that he couldn’t compete without his signings completely disregarding that he actually thinks it’s possible to compete with the current squad.

Those reports just highlight the bias Ian in the reporting on United and Jose.

Drumpot · 09-08-2018 10:42AM

jayo26 wrote: »

I don't get this thing about him moaning.... would we prefer a manager that went around smiling and happy for not winning things?

The man wants to win and he is going into his defining year with a few players he wanted not brought in let him moan the only thing I don't want him moaning about from now on in is his players he has what he has now so they have to be treated right unless they deserve it if course.

Yeh, I totally agree. This moaning or whining narrative is just used by people who want to find any reason to put him down.

Did united have a good summer of strengthening the squad! no!

Do we know that Jose wants and likes to win trophies with his teams? Yes

Is there any sign that Jose wants to leave the club? No

On the balance of things does Jose sounds like somebody who desperately wants to do better but feels like he’s being hamstrung by the clubs performance in the transfer market.....

Some people are very happy to presume the clubs issues with transfers are all outside of their control. I’m dubious of that and with good reason. Every other season people were happy to accept that the club mostly got targets or players in positions the manager wanted, so what’s changed? Has the most valuable Club in the world now become unable to get top targets because clubs and players just don’t want to join?

I’m not particularly frustrated about the summer but I’m angry that our manager is. The least the club can do is give the manager what he needs. You don’t keep negotiating for a player or manager for months if it’s clear they won’t sign so what the f**k has the club been doing ?!!!

Backstreet Moyes · 09-08-2018 10:46AM

Mr.H wrote: »

I really dont understand the negativity. You guys have a brilliant team ffs.
DaGea
Darmian - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw
Matic
Fred
Pogba
Martial
Sanchez
Lukaku

With players like; Mata, Herrera, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Smalling, Jones and Rojo, who could all easily fit into that side.

Jesus I cant believe I am talking ye up ffs. United have a great team that could easily challenge for the title as is. In fact if City where not so good ye would have won it last season! Like ourselves, ye just need to be more consistent this year. I hope ye are not and I hate the Moaning one but I have never seen such doom and gloom around a top class side. Ye have talent all over that team if ye choose to use it.

Darmian will be sold
Shaw not good enough
Baily injured frequently
Lindelof as of yet has not looked good enough

Fred uproven in the league
Martial will not be a starter

Fitz* · 09-08-2018 10:47AM

StringerBell wrote: »

Long term is fine if you are happy to accept that it is long term, and that short term success is not likely. That is clearly not going to be an option, Jose knows this, he has set the bar with 2nd last season. He knows that second is not going to be good enough for many this season and they will quickly forget about the long term with a demand for short term success.

Thats football.

There has got to be a balance imo, having younger players with potential is always needed but as is having older experienced heads to guide them and to help them through difficult periods in games and seasons. There has got to be balance in squads to win things.

That doesn't really fit into what is happening tho, to be fair.

Season 1: Bought Bailly for potential, and big money.
Season 2: Bought Lindelof for potential, and big money.
Season 3: wants to buy an experienced CB, for big money.

Why not buy the experienced defender in season 2? instead of buying more potential and complain about not having experience....

Cantona's Collars · 09-08-2018 10:48AM

Teams for the Liam Miller memorial game.

The Manchester United XI will feature Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs, Nicky Butt, Ronny Johnsen, Paul Scholes, Denis Irwin, David May, Louis Saha, Rio Ferdinand, Quentin Fortune, Andy Cole, Michael Clegg, Mikael Silvestre, Kevin Pilkington, Dion Dublin, Roy Carroll, Gary Neville and Alan Smith.

The Ireland/Celtic side will feature David Forde, Stephen Carr, Kevin Kilbane, Richard Dunne, Kenny Cunningham, Keith Andrews, Kevin Doyle, Stephen McPhail, Andy Reid, Robbie Keane, Damian Duff, Lee Carsley, Colin Healy, Shaun Maloney, Paul Lambert, John Hartson, Neil Lennon, Stylian Petrov and Shane Supple.

PhlegmyMoses · 09-08-2018 10:51AM

Mr.H wrote: »

I really dont understand the negativity. You guys have a brilliant team ffs.
DaGea
Darmian - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw
Matic
Fred
Pogba
Martial
Sanchez
Lukaku

With players like; Mata, Herrera, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Smalling, Jones and Rojo, who could all easily fit into that side.

Jesus I cant believe I am talking ye up ffs. United have a great team that could easily challenge for the title as is. In fact if City where not so good ye would have won it last season! Like ourselves, ye just need to be more consistent this year. I hope ye are not and I hate the Moaning one but I have never seen such doom and gloom around a top class side. Ye have talent all over that team if ye choose to use it.

That backline is a Bailly injury away from disaster. Martial has never worked on the right, so not sure why he is there. No clue how good Fred is going to be either.

I'm more optimistic than most United fans I've spoken to, but calling that side brilliant is disingenuous and I feel like most people who will push that idea are people that want Jose out and can say "But we have a brilliant squad!".

It just isn't true.

09-08-2018 10:53AM

FitzShane wrote: »

That doesn't really fit into what is happening tho, to be fair.

Season 1: Bought Bailly for potential, and big money.
Season 2: Bought Lindelof for potential, and big money.
Season 3: wants to buy an experienced CB, for big money.

Why not buy the experienced defender in season 2? instead of buying more potential and complain about not having experience....

Big money being significantly less than the comparable deals for VVD, Stones and Laporte. Big money is not 30m these days, no matter how much you want to make it out to be.

Cantona's Collars · 09-08-2018 10:53AM

Great news,this is what the club were waiting until deadline day to announce.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1027487345849724928

bangkok · 09-08-2018 10:54AM

Mr.H wrote: »

I really dont understand the negativity. You guys have a brilliant team ffs.
DaGea
Darmian - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw
Matic
Fred
Pogba
Martial
Sanchez
Lukaku

With players like; Mata, Herrera, Lingard, Rashford, Valencia, Young, Smalling, Jones and Rojo, who could all easily fit into that side.

Jesus I cant believe I am talking ye up ffs. United have a great team that could easily challenge for the title as is. In fact if City where not so good ye would have won it last season! Like ourselves, ye just need to be more consistent this year. I hope ye are not and I hate the Moaning one but I have never seen such doom and gloom around a top class side. Ye have talent all over that team if ye choose to use it.

Yep we have a very good team, but i think the issue with majority of fans is we play **** football, boring to watch and lifeless.

posturingpat · 09-08-2018 10:54AM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Great news,this is what the club were waiting until deadline day to announce.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1027487345849724928

Surely they're trolling at this stage and there is something big coming?

Fitz* · 09-08-2018 10:57AM

Liam O wrote: »

Big money being significantly less than the comparable deals for VVD, Stones and Laporte. Big money is not 30m these days, no matter how much you want to make it out to be.

It was in 2015. Especially for an unknown. The market has changed since.

Anyways, the point seems to have completely over your head so I'll have to explain it to you again.

Season 1: Bought Bailly for potential
Season 2: Bought Lindelof for potential
Season 3: wants to buy an experienced CB

Why didn't ye buy the experienced CB one of the other seasons instead? Instead of waiting til after ye had made these big transfers?

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

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