Irish Championship 2018

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 06-08-2018 12:04pm

Ivan will be trying to get the first 5 boards going with Gerry assisting remotely before today's games.

sodacat11 · 06-08-2018 1:21pm

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Ivan will be trying to get the first 5 boards going with Gerry assisting remotely before today's games.

With so many chess players working in I.T surely someone could be able to get it sorted.
I presume there are good reasons why the system wasn't tried out the day before the tournament started.

macelligott · 06-08-2018 2:15pm

Any updates on likelihood of live games :-)

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 06-08-2018 2:45pm

macelligott wrote: »

Any updates on likelihood of live games :-)

Touch and go. 30% confident today, 90% confident for tomorrow.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 06-08-2018 3:13pm

Progress.. I think we are there

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 06-08-2018 3:14pm

http://view.livechesscloud.com/07aba672-4b30-4ce7-96eb-07f7ce92c47a

Tim Harding · 06-08-2018 3:17pm

I can see boards 1, 2, 3 and 5 so far.

It was not self-evident that you had to click into the blue title bar to get the drop-down menu and select the games.

Any hope of getting board 4 going?

Good; now I have board 4 also. Have posted link on the English forum.

macelligott · 06-08-2018 6:49pm

Some moves need to be corrected in the Lopez - Collins game - beginning move 31

Joedryan · 06-08-2018 7:13pm

macelligott wrote: »

Some moves need to be corrected in the Lopez - Collins game - beginning move 31

Yes its a mess, but assuming the final position is correct White looks just winning now.

After Rxf8+ it looks like curtains.

macelligott · 06-08-2018 7:17pm

Joedryan wrote: »

Yes its a mess, but assuming the final position is correct White looks just winning now.

Looks liked game score Lopez - Collins was fixed but went wrong again.
But Murphy - O’Connel game score is a bit dodgy as well

Tim Harding · 06-08-2018 7:44pm

If game score is right, how to explain 46 b3 blundering White's crucial extra pawn?
Or had Alex calculated a winning king and pawn ending? We shall see soon.

It's a pity we don't have clock times in that game. I hope it can be fixed for tomorrow.

macelligott · 06-08-2018 7:50pm

b3 looks like an excellent move. Check on d3 being vital.

Joedryan · 06-08-2018 7:52pm

yes looked a very smooth effort from Alex, very impressive

macelligott · 06-08-2018 7:54pm

It’s a pity you are not playing Joe.

Tim Harding · 06-08-2018 7:54pm

macelligott wrote: »

b3 looks like an excellent move. Check on d3 being vital.

Well you are right, because my first comment was rather superficial. Obviously the check on d3 cannot be overlooked; the deep point seems to be that Black cannot avoid giving way with his K eventually after 55 h3.
So I suppose it was a kind of trap, but if Black rejected the pawn then c3-c4 and a squeeze was following.

Joedryan · 06-08-2018 8:08pm

macelligott wrote: »

It’s a pity you are not playing Joe.

Family commitments, would have loved to also, fantastic Irish this year.

Tim Harding · 06-08-2018 9:03pm

Tom O'Gorman got greedy, low on time and having rejected numerous repetitions, he overlooked 92...b3.
Now it's White who has to try and save the game.
Great defence by Stephen Moran for nearly six hours.

Tim Harding · 06-08-2018 9:31pm

You have to feel sorry for Tom but the tablebase shows there was no way back for him after the disastrous 92 Ke3 with the N stranded on a6. The old saying about knights on the edge proved once more.

Credit to Stephen who had his back to the wall for 60 moves until then.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 06-08-2018 10:11pm

Draw up for round 4 now. Apologies for the live board issues up until today - there will be ten live boards from tomorrow. All set up already. Clock issues resolved on board 2.

Joedryan · 06-08-2018 10:59pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Due in bright and early on Saturday morning - confirmed as of last night.

I was just reading the minutes of the FIDE Arbiters Commission last meeting in Athens at the end of June (see http://arbiters.fide.com/) where one of the issues that came up was precisely this issue of players "hopping between tournaments", i.e. not finishing one because they weren't doing especially well and moving to another where the dates overlapped.

An email from an IA was discussed who noticed two other players who (like the Irish FM in this case) had entered overlapping events so that switching between them was clearly premeditated. He said "I think, as a rule, a player who leaves a tournament in progress, should not be allowed to play in any other tournament, as long as the tournament he has left is still in progress."

The meeting decided that: "This concern should be addressed to the FIDE Events Commission and/or the FIDE Rules Commission" at Batumi.

My question(s) for ICU is: how long have they known about this situation, did they consider refusing the entry from the player concerned, and in future will they bring in a regulation to prevent any recurrence?

(I appreciate that they may not want to reply on the Board about this, especially as the Irish Championship has not yet started, but in that case it should be dealt with in one of the officers' reports to the agm.)

Just reading back on the thread and saw this. Its a delicate issue but I tend to agree, some South American players were banned from the Summer Catalunya circuit for similar behaviour.
That said I've taken about 3 mins to come up with this staunch opinion. But seems to make sense.

Tim Harding · 06-08-2018 11:10pm

On the English Chess Forum there has been some discussion since the weekend. Apparently ICU and ECF will probably liaise in future to prevent a recurrence.
If their dates unavoidably clash, and somebody tries to enter both championships, then hopefully both federations will tell them to choose, or refuse a double entry,

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 06-08-2018 11:29pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

On the English Chess Forum there has been some discussion since the weekend. Apparently ICU and ECF will probably liaise in future to prevent a recurrence.
If their dates unavoidably clash, and somebody tries to enter both championships, then hopefully both federations will tell them to choose, or refuse a double entry,

Yeah, I know Alex pretty well. I’ll liaise with him in future - not nice for him to lose a player after 7 rounds (or the guys who got subsequent byes).

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 12:36am

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Tim Harding wrote: »

On the English Chess Forum there has been some discussion since the weekend. Apparently ICU and ECF will probably liaise in future to prevent a recurrence.
If their dates unavoidably clash, and somebody tries to enter both championships, then hopefully both federations will tell them to choose, or refuse a double entry,

Yeah, I know Alex pretty well. I’ll liaise with him in future - not nice for him to lose a player after 7 rounds (or the guys who got subsequent byes).

I think the byes are not the main issue but I know what you are you are aiming at.
It was Jack Killane who famously said only reason for withdrawing from a tournament was "death". I took that to heart as a young lad but soon realised it was rubbish. There are many reasons for withdrawing and all are valid. Chess is good but people also have lives.
What is more worrying is the idea of withdrawing from one tournament but just to play in another.
That does seem a bit off, I would be frankly embarrassed to even try that.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 07-08-2018 12:48am

Joedryan wrote: »

I think the byes are not the main issue but I know what you are you are aiming at.
It was Jack Killane who famously said only reason for withdrawing from a tournament was "death". I took that to heart as a young lad but soon realised it was rubbish. There are many reasons for withdrawing and all are valid. Chess is good but people also have lives.
What is more worrying is the idea of withdrawing from one tournament but just to play in another.
That does seem a bit off, I would be frankly embarrassed to even try that.

Oh to have the free time to even consider 2 events in a row

sodacat11 · 07-08-2018 9:23am

I remember a couple of t1mes playing in the Gibraltar Challengers in the mornings and the Masters in the afternoons , twenty games in ten days. I could barely remember my own name after it.

macelligott · 07-08-2018 5:46pm

The moves on board 4: Collins v Carroll are scrambled :-(

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 5:49pm

Is the game still in progress?

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 07-08-2018 5:50pm

I'll be there in an hour - have asked Ivan to have a look in the time being, noticed it myself

Ciaran · 07-08-2018 6:38pm

macelligott wrote: »

The moves on board 4: Collins v Carroll are scrambled :-(

The moves seem to be fixed now.

cdeb · 07-08-2018 6:54pm

What on earth is going on in Cafolla v Short?

I think white is lost, but...?

Looks like Gerry was doing well against Tom O'Gorman as well before getting hit with a tactic

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 7:00pm

The Petroff from Alex Lopez today??

Not sure what that is about.

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 7:09pm

cdeb wrote: »

What on earth is going on in Cafolla v Short?

I think white is lost, but...?

Looks like Gerry was doing well against Tom O'Gorman as well before getting hit with a tactic

I think Peter was channelling his inner Grischuk with the berserk attack from an Advanced French but miscalculated something. I am not looking at this with an engine but maybe he intended 25 Bxf5 which seems to fail to ...Qe7, 26 Bxc8 Qxg5 but there was certainly a lot of crazy stuff. Then 36 Be5 was a clever shot, maybe overlooked by Short in time trouble?
I thought 39...Ng4+ (instead of Nc4) followed by ...b4 was an immediate win but maybe the position is wrong. Since the half hour has been added but the online display shows only 39 moves made so there may be something wrong with what we are seeing.

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 7:18pm

Again without benefit of engine... Gerry's position may have been deceptive for a long time. He was getting nowhere with that a-pawn while Black had a central majority so the a8Q tactic looked clever. However it led by force to the position after 27...c4 where White's pieces are discoordinated.
The obvious 28 Bb2 alas fails to ...Qa6 trapping the rook (otherwise White would be doing great) but 28 Ra7 might be playable.
After 28 Qa4? White's heavy pieces both become targets and you'd need a computer to see if there is an escape from all the short-term threats. Gerry couldn't find one. I suppose 32 Qa5 was a better try but there's probably something to refute it?

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 7:24pm

Another good result for Stephen Moran today, but it looks like we are in for a long one on top board and also in Daly-Delaney.

O'Donnell v Murphy looks like the one to watch for quick action once White makes move 41. There could be a perpetual check but somehow I doubt it.

Cafolla-Short has no more moves but White clock ticking down. Maybe White really lost on time? I suppose we shall find out eventually.

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 7:54pm

Since Conor O'Donnell was willing to give away his b7 pawn with check and it wasn't taken, and he's now interposed his Q on e1, we have to assume he is the one playing for a win.

I suppose both players are trying to win in Daly-Delaney, given what we know of their indomitable fighting spirit. But maybe a draw will happen nonetheless?

It would be really good if someone on the spot could please clarify the end of Cafolla-Short. The result is now showing 0-1 after 39...Nc4 which as I said above may not have been the best move (surely Rxb5 is playable). Was it a clock thing?

cdeb · 07-08-2018 8:14pm

Looks like Murphy has his draw now? Still a rook down; amazing stuff.

Edit - another twist; Murphy declines the draw! We had two-fold repetition; now Murphy goes for the win with 53. ... QxP, allowing 54. B8=Q but I presume Re4 is lethal (54. ... Be7 55. K moves RxQ 56. RxR+ can't be any good)

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:16pm

O'Donnell-Murphy I have a feeling Black is doing well now. What a game.

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:16pm

cdeb wrote: »

Looks like Murphy has his draw now? Still a rook down; amazing stuff.

...Qxd3! He wants more, and I think he is right.

...Re4+ is coming so White will have to give the Queen, maybe he can hang on though the b7 pawn is awkward

cdeb · 07-08-2018 8:25pm

Back to the bishop checks! Has he chickened out in time trouble? Not that you could blame him in fairness; both players on increments for a while now

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:30pm

Probably taking the Queen with ...Re4+ was also a draw?

I was tring to figure out the ending if Black gives the Bishop for the b7 pawn. Q+ 3 pawns v 2 rooks + Bishop, Black is not risking anything I think as there will be checks all over the place, maybe thats a draw also...

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:33pm

Oh dear. ...e2 was a howler, isnt White just winning now after Qc6

Got to hurt losing this.

That b7 pawn is left like a monster now

cdeb · 07-08-2018 8:34pm

Black is out of checks now!

(Move 64)

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:36pm

Tragic that.

cdeb · 07-08-2018 8:36pm

Yep; win for white.

53. ... Be7+ was a draw on the spot; 3-fold repetition. That'll hurt alright.

But a great game nonetheless

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:38pm

cdeb wrote: »

Yep; win for white.

53. ... Be7+ was a draw on the spot; 3-fold repetition. That'll hurt alright.

But a great game nonetheless

He was right to push though, I think.

Joedryan · 07-08-2018 8:42pm

Meanwhile Alex Lopez has ground out the win in the ending, so thats why he played Petroff

It looks like Peter's bookie skills are not as bad as we thought.

sodacat11 · 07-08-2018 9:18pm

No I didn't lose on time but might as well have. I got into frantic time trouble and after deciding to play Nxe6 my hand decided to make a different move Rxf5??. We analysed it after and it seems I was completely winning but our post mortem was as chaotic as the game so maybe we are wrong.

sodacat11 · 07-08-2018 9:29pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Since Conor O'Donnell was willing to give away his b7 pawn with check and it wasn't taken, and he's now interposed his Q on e1, we have to assume he is the one playing for a win.

I suppose both players are trying to win in Daly-Delaney, given what we know of their indomitable fighting spirit. But maybe a draw will happen nonetheless?

It would be really good if someone on the spot could please clarify the end of Cafolla-Short. The result is now showing 0-1 after 39...Nc4 which as I said above may not have been the best move (surely Rxb5 is playable). Was it a clock thing?

No. Iresigned, Nc4! was the best move, I played Rxb5 but after c2 it's all over.

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 9:38pm

Thanks for clarifying what happened. Yes (without benefit of engine again) it does look like Nxe6 (instead of Rxf5) would have been strong. Pity, as the build-up was interesting.

Tim Harding · 07-08-2018 9:56pm

Joedryan wrote: »

He was right to push though, I think.

That is one way to look at it. I tend to see it the other way, as implied in my earlier post.

Conor O'Donnell didn't have to play Qe1; that was a conscious decision to take a risk rather than allow an immediate draw, in the belief that he could hold if things got a bit tricky, and the hope that the opponent would go wrong sooner or later if he pressed too hard for a win.

As indeed happened.

I have been running Stockfish9 on this for a while. The only line that might give Black some winning chances was the 54...Re4+ 55 Qxe4 Qxe4+ 56 Kb3 Qd3+(or Qe6+) which leads pretty much by force to a position where the b-pawn gets swapped on b8 for the Black bishop.

Then White has two rooks and a bishop, but no pawns, against queen and three pawns. There's even a variation which ends up with Black losing his f- and g-pawns but queening the e-pawn, leaving R+R+B v two queens and no pawns on the board.
Stockfish couldn't make any sense of that, still saying =+, but the Lomonosov tablebase says drawn. White can keep his pieces protecting each other and shielding the king, and has quite a lot of checks. The black queens don't get a chance to weave a mating net and one of them may have to sacrifice itself for a rook to avoid Black getting mated. That leaves a clear Q v R+B draw.

Another line where Black tries to crawl down the board with the f- and g-pawns and king, while giving up the e-pawn, is likely to be drawn also.

It's a pity we didn't get to see such crazy stuff but instead a rather sad blunder.

Irish Championship 2018

Comments