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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Couple of things there - primarily, that my statement is a general truism of football. I'm not attacking or defending any player or manager or team, it's just a fact that if a system is set up to suit certain players, those players will look better, and feel better about what they're doing.

    One obvious thing in comparing a world cup against a league campaign is motivation. You know a world cup is a maximum of 7 games every 4 years. That's it. So i'd expect it to be easier mentally for any player to lock in for those 7 games to just do what needs to be done, even if they don't like their role as much. For a league campaign, it's got to all just run together. That's your career, your bread and butter... league after league after league, year after year. So if you're doing things week in week out that you're not a fan of, and don't consider to be 'your game', it'll probably get ya down a bit more. Bit of a slog.

    The other side is that not all defensive minded teams are the same, and perhaps those little differences are where the difference in enjoyment of one's role comes in. France looked ready to break at all times, and Pogba had Griezmann and Mbappe largely released from any defensive duties to be ready to break through the lines at a moments notice. It looked like the runs of Griezmann and Mbappe in particular were part of a plan a lot of the time, with other players knowing what they were going to do, and making decisions based on that knowledge. Like the very early Pogba ball to a sprinting Mbappe and the follow up. That football often looks off-the-cuff, but usually isn't.

    I don't watch tonnes of Utd matches in full, but i've seen enough to see that it often looks like the front three aren't necessarily on the same page. It doesn't look like it's a cohesive plan to pull defenders around and open space for the onrushing midfielders... it sort of looks like it's up to them to figure out what to do when the break happens - aside from the plan of a header knock-on to a sprinter running behind. That's the one move you can tell was planned and practiced and is very effective as a result - you don't see the same precision and repeated use with other moves I think. So perhaps being a part of a cohesive attacking plan where you're in sync with those ahead of you, acting out a game plan instead of just being expected to pull off magic, makes a similar role much more enjoyable and satisfying.

    Should Pogba be doing more with his ability and wages for Utd? Yup, probably. But you can't separate humanity from ability... to get the best of one you have to appeal to the other. For the longer term, you have to make the experience feel good, like there's a goal to be achieved, and a plan to achieve it, and everyone feels better, regardless what your job is.

    I would not disagree with a lot of that. However some players do not require the environment to be absolutely perfect for them to thrive. Some players need to be loved and made feel happy, others prioritize winning. Pogba seems to be in the former.

    Not just that it’s a question of character and drive if you require specific conditions for you to perform. It’s a mental strength deficiency that separates truly world class individuals from players who have great qualities but lack the courage to push on to achieve their peak.

    I find it quite annoying that the modern footballer is afforded the benefit of the doubt and people are quite happy to explain away unprofessional behavior. I don’t believe Pogbas poor performance for united are simply down to poor management. It’s amazing that Jose can lead every team he manages to leagues and champions league but people are all too happy to ignore that fact and presume he’s just a bad manager who can’t even setup an organized team.

    Every team but united have won leagues with Jose!!!...

    I still also find it funny that Pogba couldn’t find a way to work with SAF, one of the greatest managers of all time. He couldn’t wait and made demands a player in his position had no right to make. So we have a player who was/is incapable of making working with two of the greatest managers of the last 30 years. Do people think the managers are the problem?!

    Maybe Pogba isn’t a team player. Maybe unless he gets what he wants or sees an easy win (WC 7 games - Juventus league cakewalks) he’s just not that interested. Joining Barca will help him cause he will only need beat Real Madrid to a title. I’m not convinced he’s a player you want if your team is struggling to find form over a season. This means he’s not the kind of player with the kind of drive or mental strengths that United need right now....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,741 ✭✭✭Hococop


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    40 million?! Christ, seems a bit steep...
    Market's crazy and all that jazz, but still... over 4 times what he moved to them for only 6 months ago, after only 4 starts - one of which was a bloody calamitous performance against Levante.

    Worth buying still I think, and will be a good player, but they've some cheek asking for that sort of money at this stage of his career.


    Funny how when he is linked to everton the price is 30 million


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,804 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Hococop wrote: »
    Funny how when he is linked to everton the price is 30 million

    Bear tax, Homer tax, Everton tax, United tax

    https://youtu.be/JtgvWZuyYKc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,135 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Drumpot wrote: »
    I would not disagree with a lot of that. However some players do not require the environment to be absolutely perfect for them to thrive. Some players need to be loved and made feel happy, others prioritize winning. Pogba seems to be in the former.

    Not just that it’s a question of character and drive if you require specific conditions for you to perform. It’s a mental strength deficiency that separates truly world class individuals from players who have great qualities but lack the courage to push on to achieve their peak.

    I find it quite annoying that the modern footballer is afforded the benefit of the doubt and people are quite happy to explain away unprofessional behavior. I don’t believe Pogbas poor performance for united are simply down to poor management. It’s amazing that Jose can lead every team he manages to leagues and champions league but people are all too happy to ignore that fact and presume he’s just a bad manager who can’t even setup an organized team.

    Every team but united have won leagues with Jose!!!...

    I still also find it funny that Pogba couldn’t find a way to work with SAF, one of the greatest managers of all time. He couldn’t wait and made demands a player in his position had no right to make. So we have a player who was/is incapable of making working with two of the greatest managers of the last 30 years. Do people think the managers are the problem?!

    Maybe Pogba isn’t a team player. Maybe unless he gets what he wants or sees an easy win (WC 7 games - Juventus league cakewalks) he’s just not that interested. Joining Barca will help him cause he will only need beat Real Madrid to a title. I’m not convinced he’s a player you want if your team is struggling to find form over a season. This means he’s not the kind of player with the kind of drive or mental strengths that United need right now....

    The flipside of Jose though, is the number of attacking players who he's bombed out of clubs and have gone on (swiftly) to be proven quality. We all know the type of guy he likes. A hard-working Willian who runs and works and happily does all the pragmatic stuff. He's brilliant when he has those guys to hand, but struggles to get the best out of the more mercurial types who want to be a part of scintillating attacking football. Which begs the question why the bejesus did Utd even buy Pogba for him anyway. More marketing than footballing reasons I presume?

    And whilst Jose wins everywhere, after 2 or so years under his methods, he usually seems to have a few disgruntled players in the ranks. I don't necessarily think his game plan is limited to 2 years, but if he's not working with an entire team who buy fully into what he's all about, attitudes and ideologies start getting in the way. It just feels like there are still quite a few at Utd who think about football in a very different way than he does, and that he hasn't really been backed with the type of players he needs. Perisic, when he wanted him last year for instance, or Willian this year.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,079 ✭✭✭✭Zeek12


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    Except, it's not at all though.

    The reason I'd rather not sign Boateng is because I don't see the sense in pouring £50 million into CB when it won't solve the problem and worse still, it would mean the required investment in the position would be then less likely to happen and we'd find ourselves stuck in the same position Summer after Summer until the loss is swallowed.

    To me, Boateng to United just smacks of another "name" signing that is of convenience to every party except we end up with the butt end of the deal, again. Bayern want rid because he's played his best football and the issues he brings, the player won't budge far because he still wants to get paid, and we see a "name" that is an easy sell to the fans and snap at the opportunity. Been far too many of this type of signing in recent years.


    Well said.
    This is the nub of the problem as regards our transfer policy.

    We keep throwing away transfer funds on long shots that no other top sides would be really interested in.....Schweinsteiger, Rojo, Darmian, Lindelof and others too...

    Which has brought us to where we are.
    A bloated unbalanced squad padded out with too many average defenders.

    If we have failings at CB, they are:
    1) lack of leadership
    2) not enough consistency and fitness to bed down a solid CB pairing.

    Boateng has not been playing well for Bayern.
    He had an absolute nightmare at the World Cup.
    His decision making at times is calamitous.
    He is injury prone.

    We already have enough issues with centre backs who cant stay fit.

    It seems incredible to think any serious analysis of our defensive weakness has pinpointed this guy as the solution??


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭Bret Hart


    Breaking | Manchester United have turned down a €50m + Yerry Mina & André Gomes offer for Paul Pogba from Barcelona, according to @DiMarzio.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭JaMarcus


    Di Marzio says that we refused an offer of €50m + Yerry Mina + Andre Gomes from Barcelona.

    https://gianlucadimarzio.com/it/il-barcellona-vuole-pogba-ce-lofferta-ma-lo-united-fa-muro

    Translation below:
    After Vidal, Barcelona wants to bring Paul Pogba to the Camp Nou. This is the will and goal of the club blaugrana, but clashes with the firm intention of Manchester United not to sell the Frenchman. Mourinho and the red devils raise the wall, first of all because they do not want to deprive themselves of such an important player both technically and in terms of image: Pogba is in fact the symbol of the club, what in the NBA would be "the man-franchise ".

    And then, another reason, because the incoming market for the Premier League closes on August 9th: only three days therefore, too little to look for a possible replacement at the height. Barcelona presented an offer to Manchester United, considered in any case insufficient and refused: 50 million euros plus the cards of Yerry Mina and Andre Gomes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1026557328873713666

    Breaking | Manchester United have turned down a €50m + Yerry Mina & André Gomes offer for Paul Pogba from Barcelona, according to @DiMarzio.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1026557328873713666

    Breaking | Manchester United have turned down a €50m + Yerry Mina & André Gomes offer for Paul Pogba from Barcelona, according to @DiMarzio.

    That's like one of those ****ty offers you cobble together in Fifa or Football Manager for the craic to see if it has half a chance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Bret Hart wrote: »
    Breaking | Manchester United have turned down a €50m + Yerry Mina & André Gomes offer for Paul Pogba from Barcelona, according to @DiMarzio.

    Jesus that's like offering the leftovers in the dumpster for dessert.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,787 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Holy Zerkzinga Batman


    I think we rejected a bid from Barca for Pogba.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1026557328873713666

    Breaking | Manchester United have turned down a €50m + Yerry Mina & André Gomes offer for Paul Pogba from Barcelona, according to @DiMarzio.


    Thats the weirdest offer ive seen in a while!


    Sounds more like something from a game then real life.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    No chance with that offer

    BUT

    Does anyone think they'd be offering anything, let alone two players, if Pogba hadn't given the ok for the deal?

    Nightmare, tbh. Pretty much moving into some crucial days and now we've got those situation to deal with too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭fatherted1969


    David Maddock: "United were clear they will not go above £40million for the Belgium international defender, who will see his value plummet to just £25m in six months' time.
    ....Mourinho has told his club board to explore alternatives if Tottenham continue to play hardball over their valuation of around £55m for the 29-year-old."


    This is going to go right to the wire I think. Happy to see Levy been taken on in transfers if this is true. We've been bent over often enough by him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Here’s 2 players we don’t value at all and 50m. F*ck off Barca.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭JaMarcus


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    No chance with that offer

    BUT

    Does anyone think they'd be offering anything, let alone two players, if Pogba hadn't given the ok for the deal?

    Nightmare, tbh. Pretty much moving into some crucial days and now we've got those situation to deal with too

    We have him under contract for another 4 years if we want, very little he can do about it.

    It worked out alright when De Gea was trying to force through a move, so I'm not worried in that regard.

    I'll give it 24 hours before we see the Barca French contingent of Umtiti, Dembele etc. spouting on about how Pogba was born to play for them though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,408 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Pogba can get fúcked to be honest. Has clearly given the go ahead for it.

    Dembele + cash suits me. Pogbye.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    That's hilarious - Clearly Barca are as desperate to sell as they think Utd are to buy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    No chance with that offer

    BUT

    Does anyone think they'd be offering anything, let alone two players, if Pogba hadn't given the ok for the deal?

    Nightmare, tbh. Pretty much moving into some crucial days and now we've got those situation to deal with too


    I have a feeling there is deffo something to this.
    I dont trust Pogba at all its clear he looks after number one and isnt a team player. Fergie was to much for him and Jose is the same he doesn't like being made do the hard job.



    La liga suit him perfect plenty of flash diva footballers over there allowed do what they like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Pogba can get fúcked to be honest. Has clearly given the go ahead for it.

    Dembele + cash suits me. Pogbye.

    Lol how has he given the go ahead exactly?!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,135 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    bangkok wrote: »
    Lol how has he given the go ahead exactly?!

    One would imagine Barca have done their usual bit of tapping up (see every move they've ever made, ever) and have gotten confirmation that if Utd do agree to their transfer terms, that Pogba is happy with the personal terms they have in mind, and with the move in general.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    bangkok wrote: »
    Lol how has he given the go ahead exactly?!

    Do you think teams make offers for players if the player (and his agent) haven't signalled to said team they are willing to move?

    Otherwise, barca just annoy Mina and Gomes needlessly.


    Also, if this goes through, isn't it great that the one first team player we bought was specifically brought in to "free" up a player who is now leaving?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Do you think teams make offers for players if the player (and his agent) haven't signalled to said team they are willing to move?

    Otherwise, barca just annoy Mina and Gomes needlessly.


    Also, if this goes through, isn't it great that the one first team player we bought was specifically brought in to "free" up a player who is now leaving?

    they are both for sale anyway, so i doubt they care. Gomes isnt near anywhere good enough for us. hopefully united dont sell


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Even if Barca's cunning plan doesn't work in the next few days it'll yield results in January or June 2019. We all know how this stuff works by now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    No chance with that offer

    BUT

    Does anyone think they'd be offering anything, let alone two players, if Pogba hadn't given the ok for the deal?

    Nightmare, tbh. Pretty much moving into some crucial days and now we've got those situation to deal with too

    I dunno.

    Barca's midfield is stacked already. Unless they intend to play him as ten or something I doubt the offer is genuine.

    If Pogba were to move - and as a neutral I really hope he doesn't - Juve with Ronaldo up top would suit him in spades. Most teams Barca play sit deeper. I don't think he's suited to disassembling buses tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    Even if Barca's cunning plan doesn't work in the next few days it'll yield results in January or June 2019. We all know how this stuff works by now.

    hopefully jose be gone by then anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,135 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Do you think teams make offers for players if the player (and his agent) haven't signalled to said team they are willing to move?

    Otherwise, barca just annoy Mina and Gomes needlessly.


    Also, if this goes through, isn't it great that the one first team player we bought was specifically brought in to "free" up a player who is now leaving?

    Could see a repeat of the Coutinho bollocks... where yee hang onto him till January or next summer. Be mad to let him go so close to the window shutting, unless their deal includes Dembele at very least. Should be asking for Rakitic as well. Think that'd be a decent move, the pair of them for Pogba would probably see a net improvement in the team.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Even if Barca's cunning plan doesn't work in the next few days it'll yield results in January or June 2019. We all know how this stuff works by now.


    Its only a matter of time before Pogba legs it its been on the cards since Jose dropped him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,787 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Do you think teams make offers for players if the player (and his agent) haven't signalled to said team they are willing to move?

    Otherwise, barca just annoy Mina and Gomes needlessly.


    Also, if this goes through, isn't it great that the one first team player we bought was specifically brought in to "free" up a player who is now leaving?

    Fred is talented enough to still work in a midfield regardless who is beside him. As said before. Shifting on Pogba would allow us to go back to 4-2-3-1 with Mata & Lingard able to play as #10/support Lukaku.


    Coutinho/Pjanic would be better part exchange options. Suprised Barca didnt include Alcacer and Cilessen with Gomes & Mina lol.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Turtwig wrote: »
    I dunno.

    Barca's midfield is stacked already. Unless they intend to play him as ten or something I doubt the offer is genuine.

    If Pogba were to move - and as a neutral I really hope he doesn't - Juve with Ronaldo up top would suit him in spades. Most teams Barca play sit deeper. I don't think he's suited to disassembling buses tbh.

    Juventus would have better players for us to ask for too, tbh.

    Sandro, Manduzukic....screw it, ask for Dybala.


This discussion has been closed.
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