Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Ordinary man · 06-08-2018 09:24AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Honest question, if Jose went tomorrow, and Pep, or Klopp or Poch came in.

Do you think their priorities wouldn't be replacing Young, Val and the empty RW spot?

They would probably look to improve those areas but at the same time they would at the very least be able to make the current squad competitive. The way united played last night was a disgrace. No 2 ways about it. Set up with 11 behind the ball hoping to nick a goal on the counter. This way a team full of international players not sunderland.

Mourinho looks to set up not to lose, that's something that was not acceptable from moyes so won't be acceptable from him.

Do you believe that with the best lb, rb and rw out there that mourinho would get the team playing quality stuff and pushing for top honours?

Lord TSC · 06-08-2018 09:36AM

Giggsy, to be blunt, your post reads as if you accept we need signings, but are arguing against them cause you have an issue with Jose. Which is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You said....

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Signing more players is the simplistic solution for every problem.

Very few are defending Jose's style at the moment.

But that wasn't the point you made originally. Your point was arguing against making signings.

Be it Jose or Pep or Klopp or Poch, this summer we needed to sign players, and so far we haven't.

Regardless of what is happening on the field, those players should have been bought. If for no other reason than, if you're going to hack the legs out from Jose, at least have the players ready to go if/when a new manager comes in.

We constantly read reports we are the richest club in England, and yet we also have people trying to argue against signings. Jose should be doing better with what he has, but that doesn't mean he isn't also right when he identifies the problem areas in the squad.

Back him or sack him. It's that simple now. If the club has reached the point whereby they dont want to buy players for him, and the players he wants, then sack him and get in a manager who will use the players they want to buy.

Cause right now, it feels like the club's biggest enemy is itself.

Iused2likebusts · 06-08-2018 09:41AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Honest question, if Jose went tomorrow, and Pep, or Klopp or Poch came in.

Do you think their priorities wouldn't be replacing Young, Val and the empty RW spot?

I think all 3 would just move Sanchez to RW and he would score between 15-20 league goals under them. Klopp moved Mane from RW where he was Liverpool's best player to LW after he signed Salah. Pep has at times used sterling as a CF and altered his play to have him arriving in the box more. Poch has used Son as a CF when Kane is out very effectively.

Lord TSC · 06-08-2018 09:42AM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think all 3 would just move Sanchez to RW and he would score between 15-20 league goals under them. Klopp moved Mane from RW where he was Liverpool's best player to LW after he signed Salah. Pep has at times used sterling as a CF and altered his play to have him arriving in the box more. Poch has used Son as a CF when Kane is out very effectively.

So, again, genuine question.

Why do you think Jose hasn't tried that?

Giggsy11 · 06-08-2018 09:46AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Giggsy, to be blunt, your post reads as if you accept we need signings, but are arguing against them cause you have an issue with Jose. Which is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You said....

Very few are defending Jose's style at the moment.

But that wasn't the point you made originally. Your point was arguing against making signings.

Be it Jose or Pep or Klopp or Poch, this summer we needed to sign players, and so far we haven't.

Regardless of what is happening on the field, those players should have been bought. If for no other reason than, if you're going to hack the legs out from Jose, at least have the players ready to go if/when a new manager comes in.

We constantly read reports we are the richest club in England, and yet we also have people trying to argue against signings. Jose should be doing better with what he has, but that doesn't mean he isn't also right when he identifies the problem areas in the squad.

Back him or sack him. It's that simple now. If the club has reached the point whereby they dont want to buy players for him, and the players he wants, then sack him and get in a manager who will use the players they want to buy.

Cause right now, it feels like the club's biggest enemy is itself.

Bold part 1:
Dalot Bailly Lindelof LB

Fred Matic Pogba

RW Lukaku Sanchez

So he has signed almost entire first 11 except 2 positions. I would say he was given good backing by the club.

Re bold part 2: It's not just 2 extremes. We have too many players and we have to offload too. We are trying to sell Rojo, Darmian and still haven't. On top of that average players like Fellaini are again tied with new contracts, same with Young (player you want replacement for but highly rated by Jose).

What we think and Jose think isn't in sync. We talk about how we need better fullbacks and then we see Jose making Valencia as club captain, begging Young to sign new contract and wants him to play 50 plus games. he still feel CB is priority position.

Re the actual reply, you asked if coaches like Klopp, Pep, Poch will replace or ask for 2-3 signings, I showed you how they are working with average players and making them look much better. Just signing good players is not the only solution, especially when we don't have a system or work as a team.

To be very honest, Young's performance last season was very good and there are very few LBs who had better season than him. Not having right winger just killed Valencia, he alone can't handle the entire right side. He is declining but not having proper RW just killed him quicker.

Giggsy11 · 06-08-2018 09:49AM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think all 3 would just move Sanchez to RW and he would score between 15-20 league goals under them. Klopp moved Mane from RW where he was Liverpool's best player to LW after he signed Salah. Pep has at times used sterling as a CF and altered his play to have him arriving in the box more. Poch has used Son as a CF when Kane is out very effectively.

Exactly. It's not like Sanchez never played as RW. He started his career as RW, played as RW for Barcelona too.

Btw Wenger in 2016

"He is much sharper," Wenger told Arsenal's official website. "He is much more electric in his dribbling and much more confident. He scores goals again. I still believe on the right side he is much more clinical, since he has come back into this position he scores more goals."

Sanchez's return to form has coincided with Alex Iwobi's emergence for Arsenal on the opposite wing to the Chilean. While the two often switch positions during games, Sanchez has been playing more on the right side recently after spending much of the season on the left.

"He looks to me to be more comfortable in his movement, especially in his movement in behind," Wenger said. "When he plays on the left, he likes to drift in then come back. When he plays on the right, his runs in behind the defenders are better."

Just play Sanchez as RW, Rashford/Martial as LW and the problem is more than solved.

Mitch Connor · 06-08-2018 09:53AM

The club needs to make decisions.

If they don't trust Jose, or don't feel he has done enough with the players, or feel his style is part of the problem - then he should have been moved on. We argue for underperforming players to be moved on, if the club feels Jose is under performing than they should be looking at moving him on.

If they are happy with Mourinho, and Mourinho says X, Y, Z players are not good enough and he wants new players in A,B, C positions then the club should be doing everything they can to bring in the targets he wants - to give him the platform he feels he needs.

In no way do I find Jose blameless - I don't think we will win the title under him because our style of play (if we even have one) is terrible and there is no sign of that changing. But, the club haven't sacked him. While he is still the manager they need to back him and his decisions. From what we are reading this summer, the club have not backed him. They have fought him on left back, not signed a centre back, not signed a winger and failed to sell the players Jose wanted gone.

The club are hamstringing Jose, for whatever reason. My personal belief is that the club don't feel spending 150-200million on LB,CB and RW this summer is worth the return of maybe winning the PL - the money difference between 4th and 1st isn't big enough for them to justify the transfer spend. I think they feel they can get 4th with what they have an there would be limited monetary punishment for that. If winning the title was the goal, we'd have behaved as if it was.

Giggsy11 · 06-08-2018 10:05AM

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1026391399133052929

Trigger · 06-08-2018 10:07AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1026391399133052929

After missing 7-8 days he needs to get back up to speed fitness wise so it’s a good move by the club

Iused2likebusts · 06-08-2018 10:16AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

So, again, genuine question.

Why do you think Jose hasn't tried that?

I honestly don't know but Sanchez was great for Barcelona off the right and IMO far more effective for arsenal off the right then when he was moved to the left. He is a huge goal threat but when he plays on the left he spends half the game cutting back and chipping balls into the box. He is much more direct from the right and I think exactly what utd need. Also very good centrally but you have lukaku for that position. The attacking options are there for mourinho he hasn't just hasn't got it to click yet or found the right combination or formation. Willian or peresic wouldn't be a patch on Sanchez as a RW. Utd have lukaku, martial, rashford, Sanchez, mata, lingard, pogba he should be able to come up with some combination to get them attacking more effectively.He has had enough time and money to come up with a style or formation that will see them attack better. Liverpool had clyne out all last season and Gomez a cb and Taa a midfielder played RB all season . City played delph a midfielder LB most of the season both teams were still able to attack with purpose. Utds poor attacking play isn't all down to the fact that Valencia is RB.

Out of interest why do you think he hasn't tried Sanchez as RW.

Mitch Connor · 06-08-2018 10:23AM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Out of interest why do you think he hasn't tried Sanchez as RW.

I find it genuinely baffling. Would create a place for Rashford or Martial and space for Pogba.

Playing Sanchez off the left makes do little sense for United.

Lord TSC · 06-08-2018 10:25AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Bold part 1:
Dalot Bailly Lindelof LB

Fred Matic Pogba

RW Lukaku Sanchez

So he has signed almost entire first 11 except 2 positions. I would say he was given good backing by the club.

Two points.

By your own admission, he's been backed with 9 or the first 11 spots. So why not give him the final two spots then, and cut out any fear of not being FULLY backed? Especially when said gaps don't seem to just be based on Jose's thoughts, but on a universally accepted problem areas?

Secondly, it's presuming we're taking every transfer there as absolutely perfect for a title run. Which is a tonne of pressure to put on Dalot (Who was playing as a back up in the Portugese league 4 months ago, albeit with high potential) and ignoring the fact Bailly has injury problems and Lindelof didn't storm out the gates last year.

Again, going back to Pep or Klopp, they aren't being told they can't replace transfers that haven't worked out (and thats not saying any of ours haven't, either). They've been backed when signings have been slow too.

Jose has been backed well up to this window. He has not been backed in this window fully. He asked for 5 players in positions everyone would have agreed need strengthening. Even if we count Dalot as a full, first team signing, that's 40% of the requested positions examined.

Re bold part 2: It's not just 2 extremes. We have too many players and we have to offload too. We are trying to sell Rojo, Darmian and still haven't. On top of that average players like Fellaini are again tied with new contracts, same with Young (player you want replacement for but highly rated by Jose).

Its not Jose's fault if the club can't offload players. He gives a list of players he wants rid of, and thats the end of his role.

Now, I'm happy to see we're actually working towards getting decent prices for our players at long last.

But again....are we cash strapped? Are we that tight that we're worried if we don't get 30m for Rojo, we can't go and sign players now? If it was just about getting them off the books, we'd have shifted them for a fraction of what we're asking for. That we seem content to push for bigger fees this summer implies to me that we feel under little pressure to get those sales done.

Its all an excuse though. The fact boils down, again, to "We have glaring holes in our squad, our manager wanted to fix them, the board wouldn't back him".

I don't agree with all of what Mitch says, but I do agree with a hefty chuck, particularly the "Back or Sack him" sentiment. If they feel Jose so drastically underpreformed last year that the team can do 20 points more this season, then thats a damning indictment of his role as our manager last season. If they think he failed to get 100% out of the players, and won't back him on the market this season, then sack him.

But we're back to spinning our wheels again because Woody and the board are being indecisive. They either feel Jose is the best manager for the job (in which case, back him fully) or they feel he's not doing a good enough job (in which case, sack him and back a new manager). We're stuck in between right now....

pjohnson · 06-08-2018 10:30AM

I think if Everton do sign Mina we wont be able to sell Rojo to them can't see them signing two 30m center backs. Which means we will either have 6 senior CB's if we sign Maguire, and we'll then be scrambling to try to convince Wolves to buy Smalling/loan Lindelöf to get them off the wage bill (or we sign no one else at all and start the new season with Darmian and Rojo still part of the team, but at least we sold Blind!)

Lord TSC · 06-08-2018 10:34AM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Out of interest why do you think he hasn't tried Sanchez as RW.

I think he doesn't trust Martial at all, and doesn't particularly rate Rashford on the left either.

I think that he rates Sanchez' work rate and thus puts him on the left to take advantage of it, because Valencia's work rate covers the right. A RW with Sanchez and Valencia would be working so much harder than a LW of Martial/Rashford and Shaw/Young, and so Sanchez gets put on the left. This is also coupled with the fact Mata and Lingard seem to be able to put in that work on the RW as well.

I would hope that signing a LB would have actually helped that problem a bit, and opened up the possibility more of Sanchez getting to go on the RW. Or we could go for someone like Perisic for the LW and let Sanchez move to the RW too.

But it mainly comes down to not fully trusting the work rates of the current LW options he has.

Lord TSC · 06-08-2018 10:36AM

pjohnson wrote: »

I think if Everton do sign Mina we wont be able to sell Rojo to them can't see them signing two 30m center backs. Which means we will either have 6 senior CB's if we sign Maguire, and we'll then be scrambling to try to convince Wolves to buy Smalling/loan Lindelöf to get them off the wage bill (or we sign no one else at all and start the new season with Darmian and Rojo still part of the team, but at least we sold Blind!)

We still have a month to shift players abroad.

We won't get 30m for Rojo, but we will still get something for him if we are so inclined.

I'd imagine there's a bit less pressure, in that way, to get rid of players right now.

deaddonkey15 · 06-08-2018 10:42AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Two points.

By your own admission, he's been backed with 9 or the first 11 spots. So why not give him the final two spots then, and cut out any fear of not being FULLY backed? Especially when said gaps don't seem to just be based on Jose's thoughts, but on a universally accepted problem areas?

Secondly, it's presuming we're taking every transfer there as absolutely perfect for a title run. Which is a tonne of pressure to put on Dalot (Who was playing as a back up in the Portugese league 4 months ago, albeit with high potential) and ignoring the fact Bailly has injury problems and Lindelof didn't storm out the gates last year.

Again, going back to Pep or Klopp, they aren't being told they can't replace transfers that haven't worked out (and thats not saying any of ours haven't, either). They've been backed when signings have been slow too.

Jose has been backed well up to this window. He has not been backed in this window fully. He asked for 5 players in positions everyone would have agreed need strengthening. Even if we count Dalot as a full, first team signing, that's 40% of the requested positions examined.

Its not Jose's fault if the club can't offload players. He gives a list of players he wants rid of, and thats the end of his role.

Now, I'm happy to see we're actually working towards getting decent prices for our players at long last.

But again....are we cash strapped? Are we that tight that we're worried if we don't get 30m for Rojo, we can't go and sign players now? If it was just about getting them off the books, we'd have shifted them for a fraction of what we're asking for. That we seem content to push for bigger fees this summer implies to me that we feel under little pressure to get those sales done.

Its all an excuse though. The fact boils down, again, to "We have glaring holes in our squad, our manager wanted to fix them, the board wouldn't back him".

I don't agree with all of what Mitch says, but I do agree with a hefty chuck, particularly the "Back or Sack him" sentiment. If they feel Jose so drastically underpreformed last year that the team can do 20 points more this season, then thats a damning indictment of his role as our manager last season. If they think he failed to get 100% out of the players, and won't back him on the market this season, then sack him.

But we're back to spinning our wheels again because Woody and the board are being indecisive. They either feel Jose is the best manager for the job (in which case, back him fully) or they feel he's not doing a good enough job (in which case, sack him and back a new manager). We're stuck in between right now....

That isn't a fact though. Again, people are just making assumptions when in reality they know nothing about what is going on behind the scenes.

Lord TSC · 06-08-2018 10:47AM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

That isn't a fact though. Again, people are just making assumptions when in reality they know nothing about what is going on behind the scenes.

Which part are you disputing?

We have glaring holes in our squad - We do, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true.

our manager wanted to fix them - Are you saying that Jose is happy with the team? Is that what his recent comments have implied?

the board wouldn't back him - Have we brought in players for the problem areas I've missed?

There's no making assumptions. All three of those statements are very self-evident. You can argue WHY the club hasn't backed him, but you surely can't argue that they haven't done the nessecary deals (to date) this summer, that not just Jose but the club needed?

06-08-2018 10:51AM

limnam wrote: »

You'll be in good company. It's like the boards city supporters hq in here.

Similar to when I was in primary school and there was this kid who always came in with the jersey of the previous league winners :pac:.

Oh yea, hadn’t realised that there was so many Blackburn fans in ireland back in the summer of 1995 ,all those shirts around!

Giggsy11 · 06-08-2018 10:52AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Two points.

By your own admission, he's been backed with 9 or the first 11 spots. So why not give him the final two spots then, and cut out any fear of not being FULLY backed? Especially when said gaps don't seem to just be based on Jose's thoughts, but on a universally accepted problem areas?

Secondly, it's presuming we're taking every transfer there as absolutely perfect for a title run. Which is a tonne of pressure to put on Dalot (Who was playing as a back up in the Portugese league 4 months ago, albeit with high potential) and ignoring the fact Bailly has injury problems and Lindelof didn't storm out the gates last year.

Again, going back to Pep or Klopp, they aren't being told they can't replace transfers that haven't worked out (and thats not saying any of ours haven't, either). They've been backed when signings have been slow too.

Jose has been backed well up to this window. He has not been backed in this window fully. He asked for 5 players in positions everyone would have agreed need strengthening. Even if we count Dalot as a full, first team signing, that's 40% of the requested positions examined.

Not sure when did the trend of "manager should get 11 of his player" started. He is backed and got so many players. He even have very talented players like Rashford and Martail. Why not move Sanchez to right and play Martial who has very good season before dropped as left winger.

Pep lost Sanchez, Fred, Jorginho and signed Laporte and Mahrez 6 months later. Klopp lost few of his key players and then the money was re invested.

How can anyone say that other 2 are backed and Jose isn't is beyond me. If ManUtd lost 4 players who were so close to joining, then this place would have been on fire.

Its not Jose's fault if the club can't offload players. He gives a list of players he wants rid of, and thats the end of his role.

Now, I'm happy to see we're actually working towards getting decent prices for our players at long last.

But again....are we cash strapped? Are we that tight that we're worried if we don't get 30m for Rojo, we can't go and sign players now? If it was just about getting them off the books, we'd have shifted them for a fraction of what we're asking for. That we seem content to push for bigger fees this summer implies to me that we feel under little pressure to get those sales done.

So Jose has nothing to do with the club? Is he not working as a team with Woodward? Why do you think Jose has no role and it doesn't matter whether we offloaded players before signing anyone? Is Jose spoiled brat?

Of course they are a team. When did the policy of getting good price for outgoing players started? Yes since Jose took over. It's always the case with Jose, he wants good price for outgoing players and he even said that so many times in his interviews, that he will let go of players as long as they get the asking price.

Its all an excuse though. The fact boils down, again, to "We have glaring holes in our squad, our manager wanted to fix them, the board wouldn't back him".

I don't agree with all of what Mitch says, but I do agree with a hefty chuck, particularly the "Back or Sack him" sentiment. If they feel Jose so drastically underpreformed last year that the team can do 20 points more this season, then thats a damning indictment of his role as our manager last season. If they think he failed to get 100% out of the players, and won't back him on the market this season, then sack him.

But we're back to spinning our wheels again because Woody and the board are being indecisive. They either feel Jose is the best manager for the job (in which case, back him fully) or they feel he's not doing a good enough job (in which case, sack him and back a new manager). We're stuck in between right now....

So why is such a great manager like Jose isn't resigning when he isn't backed? It's obvious isn't it, transfer deals are not just white or black. Back or sack. We are working to offload players before signing players. Apart from that, there is also matter of selling club. Leicester said they won't sell Maguire for any price. Spurs are incredibly hard to deal with, attested by SAF. Then we have injury prone Boateng and Mina. Chelsea have rejected multiple bids from Barca, player himself said he wants to stay at Chelesa and club don't want to sell the player.

It's not always we will get the targeted players.

Btw do you think Levy doesn't believe in Poch and should sack him? Same with City and Pep as they failed to sign Sanchez, Fred, Jorginho and Pep said he wants a DM and of high quality, but doesn't know if they can sign one?

Liverpool also lowballed their offer for Fekir, does that count as not backing Klopp?

Chelsea didn't sign Rugain, Higauin, does that mean Sarri is not backed and should be sacked?

I don't think there is any club who signs every player their coach wanted. It's near impossible even for the clubs like City, PSG who have unlimited money.

JaMarcus · 06-08-2018 10:56AM

Surely we're not signing 2 CBs? Both Boateng and Alderweireld rumours have picked up pace the last 24 hours. I'd hope we're trying to make Spurs panic and accept whatever offer we have made by making them think we're moving on to Boateng.

06-08-2018 10:57AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Which part are you disputing?

We have glaring holes in our squad - We do, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true.

our manager wanted to fix them - Are you saying that Jose is happy with the team? Is that what his recent comments have implied?

the board wouldn't back him - Have we brought in players for the problem areas I've missed?

There's no making assumptions. All three of those statements are very self-evident. You can argue WHY the club hasn't backed him, but you surely can't argue that they haven't done the nessecary deals (to date) this summer, that not just Jose but the club needed?

Just because the players haven't come in doesn't mean the owners aren't backing him. They have backed him every other window. The money may be available but:

- Players didn't want to come for whatever reason.
- Deals might still be happening behind the scenes.

Unless you know something you're just taking Mourinho's word at face value.

Now, if you're right and he's not being backed, he'll be gone by Christmas if results go badly.

duffman13 · 06-08-2018 11:02AM

JaMarcus wrote: »

Surely we're not signing 2 CBs? Both Boateng and Alderweireld rumours have picked up pace the last 24 hours. I'd hope we're trying to make Spurs panic and accept whatever offer we have made by making them think we're moving on to Boateng.

I really hope we aren't touching Boateng, massively overrated IMO. I dont think we are signing two and tbh I'd prefer we focus on other positions but Jose wants another CB.

duffman13 · 06-08-2018 11:07AM

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Just because the players haven't come in doesn't mean the owners aren't backing him. They have backed him every other window. The money may be available but:

- Players didn't want to come for whatever reason.
- Deals might still be happening behind the scenes.

Unless you know something you're just taking Mourinho's word at face value.

Now, if you're right and he's not being backed, he'll be gone by Christmas if results go badly.

I find the narrative of him not being backed fairly odd. New contract 6 months ago. Unless the club and him had some kind of conversation about style of play or long term planning (age profile of players) and now Jose is railing against that.

All pure conjecture but that's the only reason I see for the club not backing him. Although pushing signings on Jose has never worked in the past so dunno why the club would think it would work now

limnam · 06-08-2018 11:12AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dude, with the greatest respect, your attitude towards discussing this really comes across as head in the sand stuff, wherein you just don't want anyone mentioning the massive elephant in the room.

Wrong!

Head in the sand because I questioned someone who is going to cheer on City for the season in a united thread? Come off it TSC.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Believe me, I am the very one who wants to be optimistic, who wants to back Jose and the club fully.

But there's not a manager in the world who would look at our squad right now and go, "nah, their full backs are fine and who needs a RW". City managed to finish 19 points clear of us last season, and we added a lone first team player to our starting 11.

It's not a case of everything is rosy in the garden. But it's not as bad as everyone's making it out to be and posting things like I'll be supporting city this year is not helpful.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Taking potshots at people who are worried about very obvious diffeciencies and a lack of progress this summer is really ignorant. Implying it's a City fan club because people can identify the massive hurdle in front of United is cheap and petty, and refusing to identify a problem does nothing to help anyone.

Why is it taking potshots? Am I not entitled to be optimistic and try to state why as much as people are allowed to spend the day whining on here? Identifying positions to be filled is not been a City fan club. Stating you're going to be cheering them on next year? Bizarre stuff.

Trigger · 06-08-2018 11:13AM

duffman13 wrote: »

I really hope we aren't touching Boateng, massively overrated IMO. I dont think we are signing two and tbh I'd prefer we focus on other positions but Jose wants another CB.

I think CB was one of the 5 positions that Jose had earmarked along with CM, RB RW and either LB or a back up striker, while we have got two of those the left back could be relying on Shaw to move. The other two remaining CB and RW and we seem to be actively pursuing both positions, but it also seems that we haven’t been able to sort out the RW(which imo is the most glaring weakness in the squad) I reckon we will definitely sign a CB before Thursday anyways, my money is still on Alderweirald, there is reports in Belgium that he is trying to push his move thru and they are saying he only wants to move to United which is a good indication. Reports closer to home are saying that it’s still on too, while Sky threw all their money at the Maguire links they seem to be trying to push that and have Alderweirald as being a backup.

TitianGerm · 06-08-2018 11:16AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think he doesn't trust Martial at all, and doesn't particularly rate Rashford on the left either.

I think that he rates Sanchez' work rate and thus puts him on the left to take advantage of it, because Valencia's work rate covers the right. A RW with Sanchez and Valencia would be working so much harder than a LW of Martial/Rashford and Shaw/Young, and so Sanchez gets put on the left. This is also coupled with the fact Mata and Lingard seem to be able to put in that work on the RW as well.

I would hope that signing a LB would have actually helped that problem a bit, and opened up the possibility more of Sanchez getting to go on the RW. Or we could go for someone like Perisic for the LW and let Sanchez move to the RW too.

But it mainly comes down to not fully trusting the work rates of the current LW options he has.

Can Lingard not play LW then? He works his arse off whenever he plays.

Giggsy11 · 06-08-2018 11:22AM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Can Lingard not play LW then? He works his arse off whenever he plays.

It's nothing to do with work rate. For all the "Lazy Martial" posts, he covers just 500m less than Sanchez per 90 mins. There are so many times where Sanchez was next to fullback helping them in defense. It's the new narrative that is built in last few months.

DM_7 · 06-08-2018 11:33AM

The style Jose favours is not the issue.

In football there is an obvious correlation in football between success and the best players.

Real Madrid and France most suited to tournament play win out.

Man City, Juventus, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc, best teams/Squads in their leagues triumph.

Like his choice of style of not, France and even Belgium at the World Cup had better first choice 11s than United.

Where are the United players the other teams would love to have? Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and ........

They are just not there in vast numbers. That is why Jose is actually a good fit for United right now. His system can allow a player like Young play to a high level. He wants to win. He can set his team up to use a Lukaku or Sanchez if given the backing to do it. So far he has a lot of backing but United must continue to do more because the rivals or clubs they want to rival in Europe are improving as are clubs within the league.

That is why Jose keeps talking about City or Liverpool, I am not sure he is is dismissing the steps United took to give him players but pointing out that other clubs are also improving, so United need to keep pushing for better players.

deaddonkey15 · 06-08-2018 11:44AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Which part are you disputing?

We have glaring holes in our squad - We do, I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true.

our manager wanted to fix them - Are you saying that Jose is happy with the team? Is that what his recent comments have implied?

But what you deem to be "glaring holes" is just your opinion and perspective as a fan. It's mentioned daily in here about how we need a right winger, and many talk about needing a back up for Lukaku, yet in February Mourinho himself said he doesn't want any more attacking players. He mentioned how both Rashford and Sanchez can play on the left and the right, and how they can all play as a second striker. He even calls out the media for speculating about attacking players arriving in the summer before saying he doesn't want any. He even says we don't need to improve on our attacking players we just need to improve on their dynamic and efficiency which is what many here (including myself) having been saying all season.

Left back is another supposed glaring hole. Personally I think Young is a solid enough left back, though I would like to see a signing for that position purely because he is in his thirties. Only back in May though, Mourinho said that Young is better now than when he first arrived 2 years ago. He said next year he will be an important member of the squad and hopes he makes around 50 appearances. They triggered a contract extension for him back in March. That suggests first team player to me. And keeping a player that Mourinho wants at the club (like Fellaini, and the re-signing of Ibrahimovic), backing the manager in other words.

Right back, I would agree that we need a massive upgrade. But then Mourinho made Valencia the club captain less than a month ago, so perhaps that's a vote of confidence for the coming season? I don't know.

Lord TSC wrote: »

the board wouldn't back him - Have we brought in players for the problem areas I've missed?

There's no making assumptions. All three of those statements are very self-evident. You can argue WHY the club hasn't backed him, but you surely can't argue that they haven't done the nessecary deals (to date) this summer, that not just Jose but the club needed?

As someone else pointed out, just because the players that you feel we need haven't arrived doesn't mean the manager isn't being backed. There's a difference between not doing deals and not being able to do a deal.

The recent rumours about Maguire were interesting. Centre half seems low on the list of priority signings yet Maguire, Alderweireld and Mina are the players we've most strongly been linked with recently. If Mourinho wants Maguire do the rumours linking us to him not indicate that the club are trying to do a deal and "back the manager"? Most people here were opposed to that signing and were relieved when Leicester said he was not for sale, yet the same people are desperate for us to sign the players Mourinho wants, or more correctly, the players they think Mourinho wants. Somehow I doubt not signing Maguire this summer will be used as evidence of Mourinho not being backed the same way not signing Perisic last summer was.

Moreover, if we were genuinely chasing Maguire, what more can we do if Leicester say he's not for sale? Again, people claiming we're the richest club in the world and should just pay what's required to back the manager. Would they be happy with a 80/90/100m pound bid to convince Leicester to sell? As sure as night follows day Woodward would get flak for signing Maguire for 100m instead of a right winger (despite Mourinho publicly saying he doesn't want more attackers) after we get held to a 0-0 by Brighton at Old Trafford in November.

duffman13 · 06-08-2018 11:50AM

It's alright, we've got CB sorted

Jose talking about Pogba:
“He is a very self-confident boy too, so we are living well with the critics, if you want, and we know what the critics are.

“He’s a top player and I think he could be a phenomenal central defender.

“With the quality of his pass, with his aerial game, with his agility in such a big body, for his defensive side of the game, coming from the back with the ball, he would be a phenomenal central defender, too.”

It was never Matic dropping to centre half

https://www.football365.com/news/mourinho-pogba-would-be-brilliant-centre-half

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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