NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Marlow · 01-08-2018 10:08PM

fritzelly wrote: »

State now buys (majority of) company managing state assets at a probably inflated price

No no .. State floats 25% of a company who buys the majority of a company managing state assets at a totally inflated price .. (approx 6-10x the rate of lets say fiber from Dublin to Paris), without giving the state a decent cut back.

So a little bit more convoluted. But otherwise you nailed it.

Now ... putting contrast on it, eNet is now indirectly a partially state-owned asset. Then go back to the FOI process and review the fight there and how that's now even more a loosing battle for government and enet under those circumstances.

/M

westyIrl · 01-08-2018 10:42PM

fritzelly wrote: »

That twitter link makes me confused
Let me see if I've got this right...
State gives tender to tiny company
Tiny company sells itself to a US company (hmm down the rabbit hole)
Somebody wants to know the details of the tender
State fights tooth and nail against it
State finds its a losing battle
Naughten suddenly without any kind of tendering (is that not illegal for state contracts) extends their contracts bumping enets value considerably
State now buys (majority of) company managing state assets at a probably inflated price
FOI dead in the water (edit actually why does that negate the original FOI request?)

And after all that not a single high speed broadband connection

Who was getting these brown envelopes I would like to know.

And don't forget the state is on the brink of granting a much larger tender to the same company that it is an indirect stakeholder in. State Telco by proxy maybe? Also a principal of the IIF is a non-executive director of ENET, but that's probably par for the course.

Did the State's (indirect) stake in the consortium increase over the weekend by the IIF seemingly stepping into SSEs slot?

I need a wall chart to figure this out.

Jim

fritzelly · 01-08-2018 10:53PM

Marlow wrote: »

No no .. State floats 25% of a company who buys the majority of a company managing state assets at a totally inflated price .. (approx 6-10x the rate of lets say fiber from Dublin to Paris), without giving the state a decent cut back.

So a little bit more convoluted. But otherwise you nailed it.

Now ... putting contrast on it, eNet is now indirectly a partially state-owned asset. Then go back to the FOI process and review the fight there and how that's now even more a loosing battle for government and enet under those circumstances.

/M

This is so convuluted it's easy to forgive anyone not following it.
The IIF started by Irish Life, backed up by the government, managed by some Australian company buys a company engaged by the state to manage state assets and who are the only remaining company in another state tender...
IIF who also own Airspeed Telecom...hmmm

Ohhh my mind is blown trying to follow all this.

Call me cynical but this all stinks of corruption.

westyIrl · 01-08-2018 11:45PM

fritzelly wrote: »

This is so convuluted it's easy to forgive anyone not following it.
The IIF started by Irish Life, backed up by the government, managed by some Australian company buys a company engaged by the state to manage state assets and who are the only remaining company in another state tender...
IIF who also own Airspeed Telecom...hmmm

Ohhh my mind is blown trying to follow all this.

Call me cynical but this all stinks of corruption.

I suppose one could summarise that the State's investment benefits from it awarding the tender to ENET, which is probably the definition of conflict of interest. Doesn't smell of dasies no matter how you look at it.

Jim

9726_9726 · 02-08-2018 12:06AM

westyIrl wrote: »

fritzelly wrote: »

This is so convuluted it's easy to forgive anyone not following it.
The IIF started by Irish Life, backed up by the government, managed by some Australian company buys a company engaged by the state to manage state assets and who are the only remaining company in another state tender...
IIF who also own Airspeed Telecom...hmmm

Ohhh my mind is blown trying to follow all this.

Call me cynical but this all stinks of corruption.

I suppose one could summarise that the State's investment benefits from it awarding the tender to ENET, which is probably the definition of conflict of interest. Doesn't smell of dasies no matter how you look at it.

Jim

This all makes Lowry and Dinny look like a couple of altar boys.

ED E · 02-08-2018 12:06AM

Think I'll jog on to Iceland or somewhere, silly little country....

Marlow · 02-08-2018 12:36AM

fritzelly wrote: »

managed by some Australian company .

Austrialian company ? Babcock and Brown somehow come to mind.

Just saying. History repeating itself.

/M

Hitman3000 · 02-08-2018 12:37AM

9726_9726 wrote:

This all makes Lowry and Dinny look like a couple of altar boys.

Looking like Naughten got handed a poisoned chalice. I know the guy, he ain't no alter boy but he doesn't deserve to get shafted over this. Long time in the making.

9726_9726 · 02-08-2018 12:43AM

ED E wrote: »

Think I'll jog on to Iceland or somewhere, silly little country....

"Come on, Carrie, surely it was Mossad, not Enet. Have you taken your lithium? You're not supposed to even be in the PAC anymore!"

"Saul, you *have* to trust me on this! Brody didn't corrupt the fibre network! Abu Naughtzir routed the money through HLBC to Enet! It was him all along!"

Grab All Association · 02-08-2018 06:40AM

Has Primetime picked it up at all? Since I got ftth i havent turned on the TV in over a week.

Johnboy1951 · 02-08-2018 08:01AM

I have the overall picture, but some of the nuances have passed me by.

Probably it is too early for me ......... maybe someone could put it all together in reasonably correct sequence

2002 IIF set up
Oak Hill (US) sold its 47% stake in Enet
IIF buys 78% stake in Enet
Enet gets MAN contract
Enet gets second MAN contract
MAN contracts extended (by ministerial order?)
Enet bidding for another (NBP) government contract - last man standing!

Does any of the above have implications for EU funding of the NBP roll out?
If yes, under what 'rule'?

It would be good to see it all written out in a time line with some references ..........

MrO · 02-08-2018 09:20AM

Same here. Fair play to everyone who's had a go at explaining but it's a bit hard to follow

KOR101 · 02-08-2018 11:10AM

No need’ for broadband cash details

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-need-for-broadband-cash-details-509jm8x2w?t=ie

Ardent · 02-08-2018 03:41PM

KOR101 wrote: »

No need’ for broadband cash details

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-need-for-broadband-cash-details-509jm8x2w?t=ie

Behind a pay wall. Can you post the article content?

Ultimanemo · 02-08-2018 04:40PM

However, the minister did confirm the separate scheme that he announced last September for nine towns around the country to get high-speed fibre broadband to 115,000 premises has been shelved.

The towns to be targeted included Roscommon, Ballinasloe and Manorhamilton.

http://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/roscommon/naughten-confirms-roscommon-broadband-plan-shelved/

This in his own backyard, Unless he comes up with a solution, it will affect his chances in the next election.

shigllgetcha · 02-08-2018 05:12PM

I dont know if the enet 100m rollout was ever going to be actual rural broadband like the NBP area or just a urban rollout in rural towns ala SIRO.

In the coming months, enet-SSE crews will commence the first phase of deployment delivering the new fibre-to-the-premises broadband network to 18,000 premises in nine towns in the West and North West. This first phase, which will complete within 12 months of commencement, will connect Ballinasloe, Roscommon Town, Manorhamilton, Bundoran, Ballyshannon, Donegal Town, Ballybofey, Stranorlar, and Buncrana

18,000 premises seems like far too many to cover the NBP area for 9 pretty small towns. It sounds alot more like a rollout for just the urban areas of those towns.

Theyre also listed as planned on the SIRO website which to me is nearly confirmation that they are just urban areas and not NBP.

Also many of those towns are getting the 300k eir rollout, there would be no point covering those areas again.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 02-08-2018 05:17PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

I dont know if the enet 100m rollout was ever going to be actual rural broadband like the NBP area or just a urban rollout in rural towns ala SIRO.

> n the coming months, enet-SSE crews will commence the first phase of deployment delivering the new fibre-to-the-premises broadband network to 18,000 premises in nine towns in the West and North West. This first phase, which will complete within 12 months of commencement, will connect Ballinasloe, Roscommon Town, Manorhamilton, Bundoran, Ballyshannon, Donegal Town, Ballybofey, Stranorlar, and Buncrana

18,000 premises seems like far too many to cover the NBP area for 9 pretty small towns. It sounds alot more like a rollout for just the urban areas of those towns.

It was to be urban a la SIRO targeting FTTC areas. The Department would have no place in questioning the finances of the project. The issue lies with Minister Naughten involving himself and thereby apparently taking some credit for every significant broadband announcement in the past while. Unfortunately, for him, this appearance has now backfired.

Grab All Association · 04-08-2018 08:16PM

Nothing more about it unusually.

fergus1001 · 05-08-2018 01:22AM

Grab All Association wrote:

Nothing more about it unusually.

government spin doctors calculating that it would go away if released over the weekend were proven right

listermint · 05-08-2018 10:12AM

Great thread lads. This should be kept alive I'm sure more details will come out. Super work from Gavin there. Be sure to circulate that Twitter feed around you and yours

KOR101 · 05-08-2018 10:20AM

SSE's financial commitment, which McCourt hinted may have been (EURO)100m in one trade magazine interview, will now be mopped up by Enet shareholder IIF. This does not solve the boots on the ground problem, however.

The consortium could move to appoint another utility on a contract basis. Eir might be an outside bet, or more likely Axione, a French telecoms infrastructure specialist. This is not likely to happen prior to the planned contact signing at the end of September.

All told, the project has a mounting credibility problem. There is a fear that the financial projections underpinning the plan may be too aggressive, and that this could spell bigger problems down the line. The (EURO)1.2bn plan envisages up to 10,000 homes being connected per month, with 91% of homes connected by the end of the decade, according to IJ Global, a project finance news site

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/how-fast-can-david-mccourt-play-his-best-hand-for-the-national-broadband-plan-x0tsxx7b9

Ardent · 05-08-2018 09:30PM

KOR101 wrote: »

All told, the project has a mounting credibility problem.

Understatement of the year

tsue921i8wljb3 · 05-08-2018 11:58PM

A couple of more articles from the Sunday Independent. Nothing really new in either though.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/can-enets-mccourt-use-contacts-to-put-broadband-rollout-back-on-track-37185487.html

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/adrian-weckler-its-squeaky-bum-time-for-nbp-37185532.html

fritzelly · 06-08-2018 12:12AM

Still talking about eir coming back in - with the new owner I think that ship has sailed, he will be money hungry and there is only one place that will work

smelly sock · 06-08-2018 12:17AM

fritzelly wrote: »

Still talking about eir coming back in - with the new owner I think that ship has sailed, he will be money hungry and there is only one place that will work

Focusing his investing around high return, highly populated areas with decent infrastructure and readily accessible ducting etc. Its fair enough and hardly a shock.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 06-08-2018 12:22AM

fritzelly wrote: »

Still talking about eir coming back in - with the new owner I think that ship has sailed, he will be money hungry and there is only one place that will work

I can't see it myself. Adrian Weckler seems to have started the rumour and now others are running with it. I'd go so far as to say that I believe eir would like to see the whole process collapse now. I can see them playing hard ball with any access requests for their network to leverage even more pressure on enet.

smelly sock · 06-08-2018 12:25AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I can't see it myself. Adrian Weckler seems to have started the rumour and now others are running with it. I'd go so far as to say that I believe eir would like to see the whole process collapse now. I can see them playing hard ball with any access requests for their network to leverage even more pressure on enet.

I think you are on the money Navi. No way Eir are going to re enter and build an infrastructure at an expense which wont turn a profit for donkeys years.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 06-08-2018 12:31AM

smelly sock wrote: »

I think you are on the money Navi. No way Eir are going to re enter and build an infrastructure at an expense which wont turn a profit for donkeys years.

Weckler's theory is even more bizarre than that. According to him enet would hire eir as a sub-contractor to build out their network. They would be paid upfront for the work but would have no long term ownership of the network. So essentially they would be cannibalising their own business (how many people in intervention areas are paying line rental and broadband subscriptiona to eir) for whatever they would be getting paid to build the infrastructure.

fritzelly · 06-08-2018 12:35AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Weckler's theory is even more bizarre than that. According to him enet would hire eir as a sub-contractor to build out their network. They would be paid upfront for the work but would have no long term ownership of the network. So essentially they would be cannibalising their own business (how many people in intervention areas are paying line rental and broadband subscriptiona to eir) for whatever they would be getting paid to build the infrastructure.

Call me cynical but I wonder who enet are paying for some creative journalism

tsue921i8wljb3 · 06-08-2018 04:45AM

The proposed legislation to allow access to, presumably, eir's network in relation to the NBP is apparently going to be put before the Dail during the next term.

The government has approved the drafting of a bill to ensure access to infrastructure, such as ducts and poles, needed for the planned rollout of high-speed broadband to 540,000 rural homes and businesses. The legislation will also set out the costs of accessing it.

A Department of Communications spokesman said that the bill was aimed at “facilitating the efficient and effective delivery” of the plan (NBP). “It seeks to provide certainty in relation to access to critical infrastructure required to deliver the NBP and the terms and conditions including cost, of that access,” he said. “It provides that disputes in relation to access and/or terms and conditions of access will be determined by the Commission for Communications Regulation. The proposed provisions would apply only in relation to the NBP and are not limited to the infrastructure of any one provider. The bill is being drafted by the Office of the Attorney-General and it is anticipated that it will be brought to government for approval to initiate in the Oireachtas during the autumn term.”

It will be interesting to see how eir react if the new legislation undercuts the already regulated access prices.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/planned-laws-will-guarantee-broadband-network-access-n96jsvnv7?t=ie

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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