Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

54and56 · 05-08-2018 11:16PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United, as a club, aren't bothered about city. As long as they get top 4 it doesn't matter. The club has no ambition of winning the title anymore.

We needed a huge summer to compete. The club haven't pushed for a big summer (as Liverpool did cause they want to win the title) because they don't care.

It sounds total PR and a bit cringy but this is what Liverpool's principle owner John Henry said shortly after acquiring the club:-

"It gives me goosebumps to think we could deliver a Premier League title to Liverpool - it's what we are there for, we have no other agenda than that."

Have any of the Glazers doubled down with a similar statement since SAF retired?

limnam · 05-08-2018 11:20PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

It sounds total PR and a bit cringy but this is what Liverpool's principle owner John Henry said shortly after acquiring the club:-

"It gives me goosebumps to think we could deliver a Premier League title to Liverpool - it's what we are there for, we have no other agenda than that."

Have any of the Glazers doubled down with a similar statement since SAF retired?

Oh, if the Glazers came out and said they were getting goosebumps we'd be grand?

What sort of rubbish is that.

The glazers forked out for record breaking signings.

But forgot to discuss their goosebumps.

The last number of years make sense now.

Mitch Connor · 05-08-2018 11:23PM

limnam wrote: »

Horse poo.

It's true.

If United wanted to win the title we'd see evidence of it.

We'd have seen United look to address the needs to get up to the level of city and Madrid. We've signed a cm (needed) and a back up right back.

We'll see another year of no width on either side and mistakes costing is at the back cause the appetite isn't there to do enough about it. They don't want to pay the fees needed to improve the squad enough.

But sure, this will be the season Shaw does ok and Jones leads us to a title. 5th time lucky, eh?

J. Marston · 05-08-2018 11:24PM

limnam wrote: »

Horse poo.

I think he's right. We finished second to a City side who swept all before them in the league. You can either look at that ambitiously and say that's a good finish behind a great team but now we need to strengthen to close the gap and push on or you can be unambitious and say that's a good finish, we're in a comfortable spot with what we have.

Liverpool took the first option with Keita, Fabinho, Alisson and Shaqiri.

We took the second.

Trigger · 05-08-2018 11:25PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

It sounds total PR and a bit cringy but this is what Liverpool's principle owner John Henry said shortly after acquiring the club:-

"It gives me goosebumps to think we could deliver a Premier League title to Liverpool - it's what we are there for, we have no other agenda than that."

Have any of the Glazers doubled down with a similar statement since SAF retired?

Why would they need to do it since SAF retired.. they took over in 2005 not 2013.. since 2005 United have won 5 leagues 1 Champions League 1 Europa League 3 league cups and 1 FA cup.. they have got their fair share of being at the top.. they through their CEO’s allowed for record breaking transfers throughout their ownership, also pushing the club on to being one of the most valued in the world.

limnam · 05-08-2018 11:30PM

J. Marston wrote: »

I think he's right. We finished second to a City side who swept all before them in the league. You can either look at that ambitiously and say that's a good finish behind a great team but now we need to strengthen to close the gap and push on or you can be unambitious and say that's a good finish, we're in a comfortable spot with what we have.

First of all, the window is not closed.

We have strengthened. Look at the amount of money provided to Jose over the last 2 years. You think Pogba was brought in so we can scrape top 4? Sanchez? Luk? This is a team designd to sneak into top 4?

Get out of it.

J. Marston wrote: »

Liverpool took the first option with Keita, Fabinho, Alisson and Shaqiri.

We took the second.

They replaced a goalkeeper who wouldn't get into a league 1 side.

Shaqiri? Really? You'd be jumping for joy if we brought him in?

I'm finding it hard to take this post serious

54and56 · 05-08-2018 11:32PM

limnam wrote: »

Oh, if the Glazers came out and said they were getting goosebumps we'd be grand?

What sort of rubbish is that.

The glazers forked out for record breaking signings.

But forgot to discuss their goosebumps.

The last number of years make sense now.

I thought the Glazers piled up a ton of debt on the club and were happy with top 4 on a continuous basis?

I said what JH said was cringy but the thing is his actions in terms of investment in players, management and the stadium is absolutely consistent with his statement and his track record owning the Boston Red Sox.

Anyway, I was responding to Mitch's statement (which does seem to ring true to some extent) not looking to pick a fight!!

54and56 · 05-08-2018 11:35PM

astradave wrote: »

Why would they need to do it since SAF retired.. they took over in 2005 not 2013.. since 2005 United have won 5 leagues 1 Champions League 1 Europa League 3 league cups and 1 FA cup.. they have got their fair share of being at the top.. they through their CEO’s allowed for record breaking transfers throughout their ownership, also pushing the club on to being one of the most valued in the world.

No one disputes the past achievements. The observations by Mitch related to their current ambition.

TitianGerm · 05-08-2018 11:35PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It's true.

If United wanted to win the title we'd see evidence of it.

We'd have seen United look to address the needs to get up to the level of city and Madrid. We've signed a cm (needed) and a back up right back.

We'll see another year of no width on either side and mistakes costing is at the back cause the appetite isn't there to do enough about it. They don't want to pay the fees needed to improve the squad enough.

But sure, this will be the season Shaw does ok and Jones leads us to a title. 5th time lucky, eh?

Mitch you've paid a world record fee for a midfielder(Pogba), bought two very promising CBs (Bailey and Lindelof), signed two of the best attackers in the league (Lukaku and Sanchez) and one of the best DMs in the league in Matic since Jose came in. You can't buy a whole new first 11 in 3 years.

At some stage Jose has to start getting more from his players. He has some great individual talent but it seems he can not get them gelling as a team.

Rather than fans blaming Woodward, blaming a lack of signings, or blaming Pogba they should be asking why can Jose not get the squad pulling together and fighting for each other.

There seems to be very little cohesion and players don't look like they know what they should be doing. Is it a coaching problem or are all the players disinterested?

It's hard to know what's going on.s

Mitch Connor · 05-08-2018 11:36PM

limnam wrote: »

First of all, the window is not closed.

We have strengthened. Look at the amount of money provided to Jose over the last 2 years. You think Pogba was brought in so we can scrape top 4? Sanchez? Luk? This is a team designd to sneak into top 4?

Get out of it.

They replaced a goalkeeper who wouldn't get into a league 1 side.

Shaqiri? Really? You'd be jumping for joy if we brought him in?

I'm finding it hard to take this post serious

I think United, previously, were haply to fund what they thought would be needed.

City have raised the bar and I feel united have decided the title is not worth the money required to improve the squad to that level. So this summer we are seeing United not willing to fund the transfers needed to compete. This summer.

City have changed things, and united. Have decided its too much. Buying Pogba or Lukaku were transfers they were comfortable with from an investment RoI perspective. Now, the sums have changed and United aren't interested.

pjohnson · 05-08-2018 11:36PM

limnam wrote: »

First of all, the window is not closed.

We have strengthened. Look at the amount of money provided to Jose over the last 2 years. You think Pogba was brought in so we can scrape top 4? Sanchez? Luk? This is a team designd to sneak into top 4?

Get out of it.

They replaced a goalkeeper who wouldn't get into a league 1 side.

Shaqiri? Really? You'd be jumping for joy if we brought him in?

I'm finding it hard to take this post serious

What LB or RW have they bought?

Citing Lukaku, Sanchez, Pogba isn't worth a shíte tbf. You need a top class starting XI to challenge. We have not under Joses reign provided him with either a starting LB or RW. Its not like Jose is demanding replacements for players he has signed. Our full backs are from Fergies time and Mata is from Moyes'.

Mitch Connor · 05-08-2018 11:37PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Mitch you've paid a world record fee for a midfielder(Pogba), bought two very promising CBs (Bailey and Lindelof), signed two of the best attackers in the league (Lukaku and Sanchez) and one of the best DMs in the league in Matic since Jose came in. You can't buy a whole new first 11 in 3 years.

At some stage Jose has to start getting more from his players. He has some great individual talent but it seems he can not get them gelling as a team.

Rather than fans blaming Woodward, blaming a lack of signings, or blaming Pogba they should be asking why can Jose not get the squad pulling together and fighting for each other.

There seems to be very little cohesion and players don't look like they know what they should be doing. Is it a coaching problem or are all the players disinterested?

It's hard to know what's going on.s

Pep bought 20 players in that time. Nearly two first 11s.

duffman13 · 05-08-2018 11:38PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Funny, if anything the Seville games opened my eyes to the fact that we just have not got a league winning team, we got as good a result as you could expect away from home and the players were told to go and win the match at OT and we got outclassed, simple as that, this is where the Mourinho criticism falls short for me. We are a top 4 team but we will not be a league winner in the foreseeable future, there is a massive gap between the two.

Sevilla 2nd leg opened my eyes but in the opposite way to you. I agree Jose gets credit for the way he sets up to lose away from home but i disagree that it was as good a result as we could get.

The 2nd leg shows me that when we need to be more expensive and win a game, the team and manager haven't got a style or a system to do that.

Sevilla by the way who finished 7th in La Liga, sacked there manager and conceded plenty of goals. They were terrible and we made them look great. Is that down to the players? Yes, but it's also m massively down to the ****e set job and system we employed in the two games. That rests on the manager.

Even if we aren't a title winning team in the short term, we can at least have an expectation to see the team progress in terms of style and results. Style under Jose has been nothing special although I'll still give him credit for a slight increase in the results bracket.

Mitch Connor · 05-08-2018 11:39PM

pjohnson wrote: »

What LB or RW have they bought?

Citing Lukaku, Sanchez, Pogba isn't worth a shíte tbf. You need a top class starting XI to challenge. We have not under Joses reign provided him with either a starting LB or RW. Its not like Jose is demanding replacements for players he has signed. Our full backs are from Fergies time and Mata is from Moyes'.

To be fair, while looking for a first team cb he is looking to replace lindelof or bailly.

TitianGerm · 05-08-2018 11:40PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Pep bought 20 players in that time. Nearly two first 11s.

And Pep buying 20 players excuses Jose failing to get the best out of the players he has?

pjohnson · 05-08-2018 11:42PM

And posting about previous windows spending is equally pointless. James Maddison moved for 20m, Danny Ward cost 12m, Angus Gunn 13.5m.....players who had ONE good season in the second tier of English football.

We are looking for players who have/are ready for Champions League. Transfer Valuations get worse each year, that isn't changing, if we dont want to pay to compete then we wont compete.

pjohnson · 05-08-2018 11:43PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

And Pep buying 20 players excuses Jose failing to get the best out of the players he has?

Ah come off it Titian, are you spouting this about Klopp for not getting the best out of Karius/Mignolet?

Trigger · 05-08-2018 11:45PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

No one disputes the past achievements. The observations by Mitch related to their current ambition.

You used a statement by John Henry when he took over about bringing the PL to Liverpool, which hasn’t happened by the way

"It gives me goosebumps to think we could deliver a Premier League title to Liverpool - it's what we are there for, we have no other agenda than that."

I’m pointing out that the Glazers took over in 2005. And United have achieved way more than just a PL title. Look they don’t need to “double down” just look at the amount of money that has been spent since Ferguson retired of course they have an ambition for United to be the best. While I have criticism of the way Woodward has handled this window they have shown they are not afraid to spend the money on big names. It just hasn’t worked out as such yet,

Mitch Connor · 05-08-2018 11:45PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

And Pep buying 20 players excuses Jose failing to get the best out of the players he has?

Did I say it did? You said you can't buy an 11 on 3 years. Pep bought 20. Including buying a keeper to replace the keeper he wanted brought in to replace the (at the time) England no. 1.

I don't get why it should be considered unreasonable to want to replace young or Shaw at left back this summer. Or why signing a winger for a team that doesn't have one is too much to want.

limnam · 05-08-2018 11:45PM

pjohnson wrote: »

What LB or RW have they bought?

They don't need one imho.

Young was the best lb in the league last year.
They have Shaw coming up the back of him.
You could argue all night about Valencia

pjohnson wrote: »

Citing Lukaku, Sanchez, Pogba isn't worth a shíte tbf. You need a top class starting XI to challenge. We have not under Joses reign provided him with either a starting LB or RW. Its not like Jose is demanding replacements for players he has signed. Our full backs are from Fergies time and Mata is from Moyes'.

Yeah citing some of the best and most expensive players in the league.

Pure sh|te.

Jose not demanding has nothing to do with United's owners ambitions.

TitianGerm · 05-08-2018 11:48PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah come off it Titian, are you spouting this about Klopp for not getting the best out of Karius/Mignolet?

Two players, not 11. And Karius and Mig were individual errors costing the team, through lack of concentration/confidence after a few mental errors.

Klopp has tried to address the issue by dropping both at various stages but unfortunately both players are error prone.

pjohnson · 05-08-2018 11:54PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Two players, not 11. And Karius and Mig were individual errors costing the team, through lack of concentration/confidence after a few mental errors.

Klopp has tried to address the issue by dropping both at various stages but unfortunately both players are error prone.

And have you not noticed the amount of players we have had play RW with limited success from pretty much all of them?

Yet when Jose identifies it as a weakness the answer from some is "He spent big money on Pogba and Lukaku and he should get better from what he has"

Would ye have really swallowed having Karius as number one for the season because ye "spent big money on VVD and Klopp should get better from what he has?

TitianGerm · 05-08-2018 11:56PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Did I say it did? You said you can't buy an 11 on 3 years. Pep bought 20. Including buying a keeper to replace the keeper he wanted brought in to replace the (at the time) England no. 1.

I don't get why it should be considered unreasonable to want to replace young or Shaw at left back this summer. Or why signing a winger for a team that doesn't have one is too much to want.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to get more in, I'm saying he should be able to get more from what's available.

RW is a weak spot. So why not switch to a diamond and take that problem away?

A diamond last season post Christmas with Matic, Pogba, Herrera (McTominy/Felanai) and Sanchez/Mata would have helped a lot. Then you'd have two up top from Martial, Lukaku and Rashford.

Surely this would have helped overcome the weak RW spot? I'm nearly sure I saw plenty of lads post similar teams here during the season?

Mitch Connor · 05-08-2018 11:58PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to get more in, I'm saying he should be able to get more from what's available.

RW is a weak spot. So why not switch to a diamond and take that problem away?

A diamond last season post Christmas with Matic, Pogba, Herrera (McTominy/Felanai) and Sanchez/Mata would have helped a lot. Then you'd have two up top from Martial, Lukaku and Rashford.

Surely this would have helped overcome the weak RW spot? I'm nearly sure I saw plenty of lads post similar teams here during the season?

OK, switch to a diamond and put all the width on valencia (rubbish crossing) and young (cuts inside to his right, offering no width.

So we need new first choice full backs like Sandro, who the club won't go for. Cool.

TitianGerm · 06-08-2018 12:02AM

pjohnson wrote: »

And have you not noticed the amount of players we have had play RW with limited success from pretty much all of them?

Yet when Jose identifies it as a weakness the answer from some is "He spent big money on Pogba and Lukaku and he should get better from what he has"

Would ye have really swallowed having Karius as number one for the season because ye "spent big money on VVD and Klopp should get better from what he has?

I was up for keeping Karius as number 1 this season until his mad moment in pre season, now I think he needs to go on loan to rebuild his confidence or he won't have a career as a professional because his confidence is shot.

I'm not sure about Allison to be honest but I haven't seen enough of him last season to have a proper opinion.

See my reply to Mitch about the RW problem for yourselves. Unfortunately you can't play without a keeper but in a few games last season if we played with 11 outfield players instead of a keeper we might have won a few more points :pac:

Trigger · 06-08-2018 12:02AM

TitianGerm wrote: »

I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to get more in, I'm saying he should be able to get more from what's available.

RW is a weak spot. So why not switch to a diamond and take that problem away?

A diamond last season post Christmas with Matic, Pogba, Herrera (McTominy/Felanai) and Sanchez/Mata would have helped a lot. Then you'd have two up top from Martial, Lukaku and Rashford.

Surely this would have helped overcome the weak RW spot? I'm nearly sure I saw plenty of lads post similar teams here during the season?

You can’t play a diamond with ineffective fullbacks

Edit: well you can but it won’t work

pjohnson · 06-08-2018 12:04AM

TitianGerm wrote: »

I was up for keeping Karius as number 1 this season until his mad moment in pre season, now I think he needs to go on loan to rebuild his confidence or he won't have a career as a professional because his confidence is shot.

I'm not sure about Allison to be honest but I haven't seen enough of him last season to have a proper opinion.

See my reply to Mitch about the RW problem for yourselves. Unfortunately you can't play without a keeper but in a few games last season if we played with 11 outfield players instead of a keeper we might have won a few more points :pac:

Ok lets play midfield diamond.

Now we need an attacking RB instead of a RW........dont understand how that really fixes anything.

TitianGerm · 06-08-2018 12:06AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

OK, switch to a diamond and put all the width on valencia (rubbish crossing) and young (cuts inside to his right, offering no width.

So we need new first choice full backs like Sandro, who the club won't go for. Cool.

In a diamond your strikers and the 10 will run the channels the vast majority of the time. You have the players to have a very very strong diamond with Martial/Rashford/Lukaku/Sanchez drifting wide.

Trigger · 06-08-2018 12:09AM

TitianGerm wrote: »

In a diamond your strikers and the 10 will run the channels the vast majority of the time. You have the players to have a very very strong diamond with Martial/Rashford/Lukaku/Sanchez drifting wide.

Nah in a diamond the fullbacks push up to create the width and your DM falls back creating basically a 3at the back as cover for those while in attack.

TitianGerm · 06-08-2018 12:12AM

astradave wrote: »

Nah in a diamond the fullbacks push up to create the width and your DM falls back creating basically a 3at the back as cover for those while in attack.

If your WBs are cutting in you can have you 10 and 2nd striker run wide as well though.

Just solve all problems by getting Lingard and Pogba to score 40 yard screamers!!

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Comments