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Why the north outside EU changes everything for the island

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    #62
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Taytoland wrote: »
    The EU "money" is British money. It's British tax payers pumping money into it.

    A hard Brexit is estimated to cost Britain 10% of its economy. Let's see if the damage to Britain's economy is greater than 350 million a week and then we'll see if it's worth it.


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    #63
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    The EU "money" is British money. It's British tax payers pumping money into it.

    A hard Brexit is estimated to cost Britain 10% of its economy. Let's see if the damage to Britain's economy is greater than 350 million a year and then we'll see if it's worth it.
    You mean a week and let's wait and see.


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    #64
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    We'd get to vote on the North rejoining the South wouldnt we? Other than the romantic notions of an United Ireland, I really don't see why we'd want them.


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    #65
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    titan18 wrote: »
    We'd get to vote on the North rejoining the South wouldnt we? Other than the romantic notions of an United Ireland, I really don't see why we'd want them.

    Both sides have to agree.


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    #66
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    bear1 wrote:
    Both sides have to agree.


    Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.


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    #67
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    titan18 wrote: »
    Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

    Referendum.


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    #68
    kingbhome
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭kingbhome


    titan18 wrote: »
    We'd get to vote on the North rejoining the South wouldnt we? Other than the romantic notions of an United Ireland, I really don't see why we'd want them.

    Because our people have been fighting for independence for over 800 years. Its just not about short term economic gains or losses!!!!! It sickens me reading crap from fellow Irish men and women about "wanting them". They are us and we are them. Not this crap about wanting them!!!!


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    #69
    kingbhome
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭kingbhome


    titan18 wrote: »
    Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

    There would be a massive yes vote all over this island when it happens!


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    #70
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    kingbhome wrote:
    Because our people have been fighting for independence for over 800 years. Its just not about short term economic gains or losses!!!!! It sickens me reading crap from fellow Irish men and women about "wanting them". They are us and we are them. Not this crap about wanting them!!!!


    So, those are the romantic notions.


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    #71
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    The passport controls at the border will be pure entertainment gold.

    There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

    The CTA predates the EU and will still exist after brexit. Worst case will be checks like you get on a Dublin - Holyhead ferry.

    The only way passport checks will happen on the NI border is if the ROI rolls over to EU demands/threats and joins the Shengen area.


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    #72
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

    The CTA predates the EU and will still exist after brexit. Worst case will be checks like you get on a Dublin - Holyhead ferry.

    The only way passport checks will happen on the NI border is if the ROI rolls over to EU demands/threats and joins the Shengen area.

    I wish they did tbh


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    #73
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    bear1 wrote: »
    I wish they did tbh

    I predict it will happen in the next 10 years if the migrant situation in Italy/Austria/Germany has not killed Schengen first.

    The EU will bully/threaten or blackmail the ROI into it even although it do the Isle of Ireland more harm than good.

    And nobody here will have the balls to tell Brussels to feck off.


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    #74
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    I predict it will happen in the next 10 years if the migrant situation in Italy/Austria/Germany has not killed Schengen first.

    The EU will bully/threaten or blackmail the ROI into it even although it do the Isle of Ireland more harm than good.

    And nobody here will have the balls to tell Brussels to feck off.

    Couple of weeks ago i drove through Austria up towards Munich and on the German side there were checks on the border.
    Hungary already doing it too so it's a matter of time I think as well.


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    #75
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    Wasn't there once a time when the repubic was the backwater?

    Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
    It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
    If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
    The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.


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    #76
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
    It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
    If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
    The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.

    Load of ****e.


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    #77
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This is ahistorical drivel, albeit popular among people on Boards.ie who enjoy all that right-on ahistorical drivel where de Valera is equivalent to the Great Satan.

    It takes a very special kind of genius to start a trade war with your country's by far the largest trading partner in the middle of the Great Depression.

    Then in the 50s and early 60s he was hanging around with the smell of death off him when it was clear he didn't have a clue in what direction to lead the country, so he did nothing for years basically. Hundreds of thousands saw no future here and emigrated, when the rest of Europe was seeing the greatest boom in history our economy was stagnating for years.

    Yes he kept us out of the Second World War but anyone could have done the same, and that was Dev's favourite kind of decision - inaction. He did great damage to the country with most of the few actions he did take.

    Taytoland wrote: »
    The detail was put to the Scottish people in 2014 and the Scottish Independence argument on the economy didn't stand up and it got destroyed in the poll. It wasn't even close. Leaving the EU will not change the fundamental issues on Scottish Independence and how they would be able to do it without implementing huge austerity measures and currency issues by leaving the pound. 

    At the time I remember someone saying it would take years and years for any transforming from the Act of Union to Scottish Independence. Economically it's just not there. I think this talk of Scottish Independence is lalaland.

    This post is at odds with reality. The Scottish independence vote was close enough. Shouldn't a 45% vote to break up the UK worry you? If 45% of people in any part of my country voted to leave, I'd be bloody worried.

    One of the main arguments used against Scottish independence was the threat that they might not be allowed to stay in the EU. Vote No to stay in the EU, they said... how's that worked out?

    The pound sterling is not some sort of guarantee of wealth. Looking at the equivalent euro exchange rate, the old Irish pound is now worth substantially more than sterling - in 1978 they were equal.

    Says it all about the decline of the UK over the last 40 years, which will now only accelerate.

    People used to say that Irish independence was lalaland, too.

    Incredible that the Tories, not content with almost breaking up the UK in 2014, then went on to vote to wreck their economy in 2016. You'd be forgiven for thinking that Cameron was some sort of Russian or Chinese agent. Proof that the finest English education that money can buy is no guarantee against being a complete idiot. But what does the likes of him or Boris or Rees-Mogg care? They'll still be rich whatever happens.

    Taytoland wrote: »
    Scotland leaving the Union would also be leaving the EU. They have no guarantees they would get back in relatively soon whatsoever.

    No but the desire to be a member goes a long way, plus they will have the goodwill of the EU27, and the acquis (European community law) is already in place, which is much more than any new entrant to the EU has ever had before.
    They would also be changing from the pound to the Euro.

    Only if they want to. You can't stop anyone from using a currency. We used the pound sterling (in effect) for 56 years without being part of the UK. There are countries using the euro today which are not members of the EU. Zimbabwe uses US dollars as legal tender, it is not part of the USA. Why would changing to the euro be a bad thing for Scotland, anyway?
    One of the key foundations of the Scottish Independence movement in 2014 was North sea oil. What they didn't tell you is it is rapidly disappearing. By 2030s -2050s it will be finished. They put a lot of emphasis on something which in a few generations time won't matter a jot as it will be gone.

    They still have vast amounts of hydro power and great potential with wind and tidal power. Scotland is and will remain an exporter of energy (and water - something the increasingly populous and dry SE of England might want to consider)

    Taytoland wrote: »
    The EU is notoriously inflexible. They have clear lines on many issues and rarely if ever budge on them. So absolutely no guarantees on Scotland joining the EU.

    Really, because in the run-up to the referendum and since the brexiteers have been saying how weak and therefore flexible the EU is. How's that working out for you?

    prinzeugen wrote: »
    There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

    Try flying into Dublin Airport from Britain sometime soon. For years there have been passport controls to prove that you are a CTA citizen who doesn't need to go through passport controls...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #78
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    It takes a very special kind of genius to start a trade war with your country's by far the largest trading partner in the middle of the Great Depression.

    Then in the 50s and early 60s he was hanging around with the smell of death off him when it was clear he didn't have a clue in what direction to lead the country, so he did nothing for years basically. Hundreds of thousands saw no future here and emigrated, when the rest of Europe was seeing the greatest boom in history our economy was stagnating for years.

    Yes he kept us out of the Second World War but anyone could have done the same, and that was Dev's favourite kind of decision - inaction. He did great damage to the country with most of the few actions he did take.




    This post is at odds with reality. The Scottish independence vote was close enough. Shouldn't a 45% vote to break up the UK worry you? If 45% of people in any part of my country voted to leave, I'd be bloody worried.

    One of the main arguments used against Scottish independence was the threat that they might not be allowed to stay in the EU. Vote No to stay in the EU, they said... how's that worked out?

    The pound sterling is not some sort of guarantee of wealth. Looking at the equivalent euro exchange rate, the old Irish pound is now worth substantially more than sterling - in 1978 they were equal.

    Says it all about the decline of the UK over the last 40 years, which will now only accelerate.

    People used to say that Irish independence was lalaland, too.

    Incredible that the Tories, not content with almost breaking up the UK in 2014, then went on to vote to wreck their economy in 2016. You'd be forgiven for thinking that Cameron was some sort of Russian or Chinese agent. Proof that the finest English education that money can buy is no guarantee against being a complete idiot. But what does the likes of him or Boris or Rees-Mogg care? They'll still be rich whatever happens.




    No but the desire to be a member goes a long way, plus they will have the goodwill of the EU27, and the acquis (European community law) is already in place, which is much more than any new entrant to the EU has ever had before.



    Only if they want to. You can't stop anyone from using a currency. We used the pound sterling (in effect) for 56 years without being part of the UK. There are countries using the euro today which are not members of the EU. Zimbabwe uses US dollars as legal tender, it is not part of the USA. Why would changing to the euro be a bad thing for Scotland, anyway?



    They still have vast amounts of hydro power and great potential with wind and tidal power. Scotland is and will remain an exporter of energy (and water - something the increasingly populous and dry SE of England might want to consider)




    Really, because in the run-up to the referendum and since the brexiteers have been saying how weak and therefore flexible the EU is. How's that working out for you?




    Try flying into Dublin Airport from Britain sometime soon. For years there have been passport controls to prove that you are a CTA citizen who doesn't need to go through passport controls...

    The SNP wanted the referendum in 2014 and it was allowed by the coalition government. It failed as we know.

    The SNP will be wiped out in the next lot of elections as the majority of Scots are sick of the bullcrap that they keep spouting.

    And if you fly Ryanair, yes you need a passport. I fly Aer Lingus and my full Irish driving licence is enough. Irish licence, place of birth, UK. Quick glance and a on you go sir in Dublin airport.

    And flights from Ireland to the UK and back are treated as domestic flights anyway.


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    #79
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,988 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    I laugh at the fools being sold a free border for movement, are these people thick?


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    #80
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    The SNP will be wiped out in the next lot of elections as the majority of Scots are sick of the bullcrap that they keep spouting.

    That's a fantastic crystal ball you have there.
    And flights from Ireland to the UK and back are treated as domestic flights anyway.

    As far as Dublin Airport is concerned, there is no such thing as domestic flights. You wouldn't have had to go through immigration if there was, but you did.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #81
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    I laugh at the fools being sold a free border for movement, are these people thick?

    Its happened since the CTA came into being. Are you one of the thicks that think a hard Britex means walls, barbed wire and watch towers like they had on the inner German border before socialism/communism failed in the East in 1989?

    Get a grip and get real. That twat Tony Connolly on RTE would have people think a new Berlin wall is about to go up.

    Not one of the Irish media outlets has mentioned the CTA. Just the "EU good, Britex bad", "Hard border" etc.


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    #82
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    That's a fantastic crystal ball you have there.

    Save this because I will quote when the next elections are on in the UK.

    I buy British crystal balls. The one you have must be faulty and subject to a product recall if its from lidly aldi lee.

    They only predict a good outcome for the EU while my faulty ball says the UK will win.


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    #83
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    I laugh at the fools being sold a free border for movement, are these people thick?
    I hear the Eu is going to Pay people just to cross the border ....just because it can !


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    #84
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Big question is will a hard border keep the dirty Shinners and the crazy Prods up north where they belong?

    One can only hope. .


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    #85
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Big question is will a hard border keep the dirty Shinners and the crazy Prods up north where they belong?

    One can only hope. .
    The Eu is going to send them South in their Totality for Retraining .


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    #86
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,494 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Save this because I will quote when the next elections are on in the UK.

    I buy British crystal balls. The one you have must be faulty and subject to a product recall if its from lidly aldi lee.

    They only predict a good outcome for the EU while my faulty ball says the UK will win.

    Do you really expect posts like this to be taken seriously?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #87
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    titan18 wrote: »
    Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

    Obvs a referendum - aren't pretty much all of the partys in D.E singing off the same hymn sheet ref their desire to see a united Ireland some day?


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    #88
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
    It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
    If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
    The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.

    TRoL.


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    #89
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,988 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Its happened since the CTA came into being. Are you one of the thicks that think a hard Britex means walls, barbed wire and watch towers like they had on the inner German border before socialism/communism failed in the East in 1989?

    Get a grip and get real. That twat Tony Connolly on RTE would have people think a new Berlin wall is about to go up.

    Not one of the Irish media outlets has mentioned the CTA. Just the "EU good, Britex bad", "Hard border" etc.


    There will have to be border checks at every crossing point, either UK or EU manned, otherwise a plane can just arrive from Kerblackistan and those onboard can simply get buses up north to arrive in the UK with no check whatsoever entering the UK. The Unionists will not stand for passport checks at NIRL ports/airports for people travelling to Scotland/Wales/England.


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    #90
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Save this because I will quote when the next elections are on in the UK.

    I buy British crystal balls. The one you have must be faulty and subject to a product recall if its from lidly aldi lee.

    They only predict a good outcome for the EU while my faulty ball says the UK will win.

    Last poll I just googled sees the SNP at 41%.


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    #91
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    There will have to be border checks at every crossing point, either UK or EU manned, otherwise a plane can just arrive from Kerblackistan and those onboard can simply get buses up north to arrive in the UK with no check whatsoever entering the UK. The Unionists will not stand for passport checks at NIRL ports/airports for people travelling to Scotland/Wales/England.

    Post Brexit it’s people fleeing Britain we would have to worry about. I can see Ireland imposing borders.


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