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Death of the rim brake looming?

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13

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    #62
    NeedMoreGears
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    I went through two sets of wheels in 50,000km, about 75% of which was commuting. Primary cause for getting rid of them was rim wear ( I had replaced freehubs on both at around 15k).

    I recently got a new bike which came with discs (great big discount on a 2017 model that made it cheaper than a rim-brake 2018 model). Braking feels noticeably more assured and certain in both wet and dry conditions - even compared to new pads on the rim brakes. The only real drawbacks for me are (i) they don't look as good and (ii) the squeal a bit. I do my own maintenance and wouldn't see any real difference between the two types in terms of effort. The discs are a bit heavier of course but I probably have the weight of an entire bike sitting on my belly anyway.

    All in all, I'm very happy with them and I would expect that I'll be looking for discs on any future purchases, assuming the manufacturers stop overcharging for them.


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    #63
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    NeedMoreGears wrote: »
    I went through two sets of wheels in 50,000km, about 75% of which was commuting. Primary cause for getting rid of them was rim wear ( I had replaced freehubs on both at around 15k).

    I recently got a new bike which came with discs (great big discount on a 2017 model that made it cheaper than a rim-brake 2018 model). Braking feels noticeably more assured and certain in both wet and dry conditions - even compared to new pads on the rim brakes. The only real drawbacks for me are (i) they don't look as good and (ii) the squeal a bit. I do my own maintenance and wouldn't see any real difference between the two types in terms of effort. The discs are a bit heavier of course but I probably have the weight of an entire bike sitting on my belly anyway.

    All in all, I'm very happy with them and I would expect that I'll be looking for discs on any future purchases, assuming the manufacturers stop overcharging for them.


    Disc brake pads never seem to last that long for me , what sork of distance are you getting from yours before they need replacement.


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    #64
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Still, it would be a huge loss for cycling if the disc brake were to take over completely. Instead, we should strive for a state of peaceful coexistence, because the humble rim brake—be it cantilever, linear pull, or caliper—is a sublimely simple yet profoundly effective bit of technology that should always be an option for the rider who puts ease of maintenance first. There are very few situations in which a properly adjusted rim brake won’t provide you with all the stopping power you need and then some. Plus, they make for faster wheel changes, they’re easier to travel with, and you’ve always got an unobstructed view of the current state of your brake pads.

    Most importantly, rim brakes don’t always work that great with carbon rims, which discourages you from wasting money on carbon rims.
    https://www.outsideonline.com/2330416/praise-wonderfully-retro-bike-tech


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    #65
    NeedMoreGears
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Disc brake pads never seem to last that long for me , what sork of distance are you getting from yours before they need replacement.

    Sorry Chiparus only saw this now. I only have about 2000km on the disc bike and that’s mostly long runs. So I haven’t had to replace anything yet


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    #66
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Why are so many bikes still made with rim brakes? Are they a lot cheaper to make?


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    #67
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Cheap rim brakes are cheaper to produce and install than cheap disc brakes. Mechanical discs are good, but they still have more moving parts than a pair of cantilevers or V-brakes, and take longer to install properly. Wheel-wise, you have a hub and a rim anyway, so adding bosses and a disc just increases your expense.

    In terms of road bikes aimed at the starter level - i.e. cost effective, but still quality - cheap discs have a bigger weight and performance hit than cheap calipers. They'll look good, but people won't like using them.


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    #68
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Why are so many bikes still made with rim brakes? Are they a lot cheaper to make?

    Because they've performed perfectly well for a long, long time, and will continue to do so.


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    #69
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    andy69 wrote: »

    If only we could get to a point where they didn't need heat guns, baking in an oven, balancing, bleeding, decontaminating, kid gloves when your wheel is out and bike's in your car in case the lever got pushed and the pads stuck together... :eek:

    Why isnt this causing a massive issue for all the downhillers and mountain bikers so?

    They take much more abuse than a road bike and somehow manage to survive.


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    #70
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,639 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect - based on my own experience - that the dirt you deal with on pads mountainbiking, is a lot less dirty (in the contamination sense) than the dirt you deal with on the roads.
    i went out on a wet muddy day on the bike a few months back, and my brakes were performing better at the end of it than the start. i suspect the grit on the roads actually cleaned my pads a little for me.


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    #71
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I have to say, now I've used them, I rather like roller brakes. They're not as good as disc(*) or rim brakes by a country mile, but a squirt of grease once or twice a year is a pretty relaxed maintenance schedule. You don't even have to wipe rims or anything.

    Anyway, if roller brakes are doing ok, despite being complicated, heavy, somewhat expensive and being not especially good at braking, because of ease of maintenance, I reckon the rim brake, which is simple, light, cheap and good at braking, will be ok for a good while to come.

    (*) I haven't used disc brakes, so I'm assuming they're as good as everyone says they are.


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    #72
    saccades
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭saccades


    I'm old enough to remember discs coming to the Mtb world, it's like déjà vu in here.


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    #73
    xxyyzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭xxyyzz


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Why isnt this causing a massive issue for all the downhillers and mountain bikers so?

    They take much more abuse than a road bike and somehow manage to survive.

    There's so much fake news in this thread it would make Donald Trump blush :D


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    #74
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    I took the plunge and bought a commuter/gravel bike with discs (hydraulics). Of course when I did unbox the bike (ordered it online) and spun up the wheels, the dreaded disc rubbing sound could be heard all around Dublin, straight away I was out of my comfort zone. Thankfully a 3 min youtube video put me right and I was able to sort it out myself.


    I suspect they will need a few miles to fully bed in but so far so good!


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    #75
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭C3PO


    Maybe it's because I've come from a mountain bike rather than a road bike background but give me setting up disc brakes all day over canti's!!


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    #76
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    Let me be the first to offer maybe €100 for all them aul obsolete Zipp DuraAce Campag Bora etc. rim braked wheels, shur they'll only be cluttering up the house or shed.

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #77
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Why isnt this causing a massive issue for all the downhillers and mountain bikers so?

    They take much more abuse than a road bike and somehow manage to survive.

    When I use to do a bit of mountain biking I often found that in really wet conditions in the Ballyhouras I wouldn't get much more than a single day out of a set of pads. I seemed to be always fiddling with and replacing them.

    Realize road is different but reckon I'll be one of the last to make the switch. Many roadies are so paranoid about weight, I cannot imagine them going for discs as they are now. You're adding several hundred grams and asking yourself why...


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    #78
    xxyyzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭xxyyzz


    harringtonp wrote: »
    When I use to do a bit of mountain biking I often found that in really wet conditions in the Ballyhouras I wouldn't get much more than a single day out of a set of pads. I seemed to be always fiddling with and replacing them.

    Realize road is different but reckon I'll be one of the last to make the switch. Many roadies are so paranoid about weight, I cannot imagine them going for discs as they are now. You're adding several hundred grams and asking yourself why...

    Then you were using the wrong pads, Resin pads are designed for dry dusty conditions. Irish wet muck wears them down very quickly. Sintered pads will last months, I ride mtb all year round and use maybe 2 sets of pads a year.


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    #79
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,946 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    harringtonp wrote:
    When I use to do a bit of mountain biking I often found that in really wet conditions in the Ballyhouras I wouldn't get much more than a single day out of a set of pads. I seemed to be always fiddling with and replacing them.


    Something a little odd there, still have the original pads on my enduro, even though they're probably coming to the end of their life now, and the bikes three years old, bike gets used and abused a lot, on trails far more intense than ballyhoura


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    #80
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Something a little odd there, still have the original pads on my enduro, even though they're probably coming to the end of their life now, and the bikes three years old, bike gets used and abused a lot, on trails far more intense than ballyhoura

    From memory they were soft wearing pads and when grit got caught in between, the wearing down process was very quick when braking a lot.


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    #81
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,946 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    harringtonp wrote:
    From memory they were soft wearing pads and when grit got caught in between, the wearing down process was very quick when braking a lot.


    Maybe I've gotten lucky over the years with brakes and pads, I've never had major issues with them, did go through a dreadful period with gearing problems though on my hardtail, my bike needs a bit of tlc though, looks like I've just wrecked a dropper post due to lack of care. It's interesting to watch the development of disk brakes for road cycling, a little surprised the change over is slowly happening


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    #82
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    xxyyzz wrote: »
    Then you were using the wrong pads, Resin pads are designed for dry dusty conditions. Irish wet muck wears them down very quickly. Sintered pads will last months, I ride mtb all year round and use maybe 2 sets of pads a year.

    You are correct, checked back through orders and see that what I generally bought was

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-deore-m515-m05-disc-brake-pads/rp-prod27245?

    Not sure if CRC spelt out back then that they were designed for dry conditions


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    #83
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    C3PO wrote: »
    Maybe it's because I've come from a mountain bike rather than a road bike background but giving me setting up disc brakes all day over canti's!!

    It's precisely why I am going to Discs for the touring frame. My cantis when set up properly would be flawless, (even Tektro Oryx), but then after a few weeks they start to perform terribly and no amount of my tinkering can help.


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    #84
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    I'm running canti front and disc rear on my Thorn. Cantis are Avid Shorty Ultimate, disc is Avid BB7 mechanical. They've been pretty much flawless and stopping power on the rear is very good.


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    #85
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    seamus wrote: »
    Cheap rim brakes are cheaper to produce and install than cheap disc brakes. Mechanical discs are good, but they still have more moving parts than a pair of cantilevers or V-brakes, and take longer to install properly. Wheel-wise, you have a hub and a rim anyway, so adding bosses and a disc just increases your expense.

    In terms of road bikes aimed at the starter level - i.e. cost effective, but still quality - cheap discs have a bigger weight and performance hit than cheap calipers. They'll look good, but people won't like using them.

    What exactly is the weight difference?


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    #86
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    They still haven't sorted the time it takes to change a Disc brake wheel, there were a good few demonstrations in the Tour of how long it takes compared to a Rim Brake wheel, before the whole Peloton starts using them I think they will need to resolve that issue. If you get a puncture within 10km of the finish, and before the 3km rule kicks in, the extra time it takes to change a Disc wheel is enough to leave you unable to chase back on in time, you are talking at least 30 seconds extra or so, and we saw a lot of faffing trying to get them on from time to time as well.


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    #87
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Inquitus wrote: »
    They still haven't sorted the time it takes to change a Disc brake wheel, there were a good few demonstrations in the Tour of how long it takes compared to a Rim Brake wheel, before the whole Peloton starts using them I think they will need to resolve that issue. If you get a puncture within 10km of the finish, and before the 3km rule kicks in, the extra time it takes to change a Disc wheel is enough to leave you unable to chase back on in time, you are talking at least 30 seconds extra or so, and we saw a lot of faffing trying to get them on from time to time as well.

    Maybe it's a case of changing the whole bike?


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    #88
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Maybe it's a case of changing the whole bike?

    Aye but that's not always possible, and takes its own time too, but it does seem when available to be the quickest way to get back on the road again!


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    #89
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Maybe it's a case of changing the whole bike?

    And where do these spare bikes magically materialise from? You could have a team car up the road following an early break age your gc person gets a flat. Moving around the cavalcade is a very strictly regulated thing. Plus time lost. And there are only so many bikes the team car can carry. Then what?

    They need a standard too imo.

    I'll eventually have to disc up cos I don't want to be caught on the wrong side of a two speed braking bunch. I resent it though. I've never found my rim brakes lacking, and think discs are hideous on a sleek road bike too, but inevitable. I did think they look good on touring bikes, cx/ gravel and adventure bikes though. Seen a gorgeous disced out Thorn yesterday.
    They're not all bad and clearly an improvement by all accounts, although I've never ridden a disc braked bike.


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    #90
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Inquitus wrote: »
    They still haven't sorted the time it takes to change a Disc brake wheel, there were a good few demonstrations in the Tour of how long it takes compared to a Rim Brake wheel, before the whole Peloton starts using them I think they will need to resolve that issue. If you get a puncture within 10km of the finish, and before the 3km rule kicks in, the extra time it takes to change a Disc wheel is enough to leave you unable to chase back on in time, you are talking at least 30 seconds extra or so, and we saw a lot of faffing trying to get them on from time to time as well.

    maybe they just need to start using proper tyres that don't get a puncture just by being looked at in the wrong way?


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    #91
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    maybe they just need to start using proper tyres that don't get a puncture just by being looked at in the wrong way?

    While it's called the Tour de France they are actually racing


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