Journalism and cycling

Arcade_Tryer · 23-07-2018 11:17PM

It's a classic case of a driver giving a cyclist less space than it would a car on the road. That driver is leaving no room for error on the part of either the cyclist or the driver; recipe for disaster. And completely the fault of the driver.

It's like when a cyclist keeps left in the lane but has the audacity to swerve right to avoid a pot hole or glass and ends up nearly being killed by a driver choosing to operate on the margins of the life of said cyclist.

accensi0n · 23-07-2018 11:24PM

I think it was also a stupid overtake by the cyclist, I see it everyday on my cycle to/from work, cyclists moving out of the cycle lane to overtake another cyclist without checking at all whether there might be a bus or articulated lorry just behind them.

P_1 · 23-07-2018 11:25PM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I’d be taking the lane in that scenario

Oh as would I but I'd be bloody sure to look over my shoulders first.

Arcade_Tryer · 23-07-2018 11:26PM

accensi0n wrote: »

I think it was also a stupid overtake by the cyclist, I see it everyday on my cycle to/from work, cyclists moving out of the cycle lane to overtake another cyclist without checking at all whether there might be a bus or articulated lorry just behind them.

It should not constitute a stupid overtake. The car is simply too close, and shows no signs of taking any evasive action either. Reckless, irresponsible and dangerous driving.

accensi0n · 23-07-2018 11:32PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The car is simply too close, and shows no signs of taking any evasive action either. Reckless, irresponsible and dangerous driving.

Agree. But I'm also of the opinion that the cyclist should be more aware and do some checks to make sure he doesn't have an incident.

check_six · 24-07-2018 12:21AM

Why on earth did the car not take some evasive action, like y'know braking or something? It wasn't a high speed manoeuvre. The driver had to be looking directly at the cyclist as they were trying to overtake them, right? They couldn't just be following the car in front and not paying any attention to their surroundings, right?

The cyclist needed to do some kind of shoulder check (Always do a shoulder check!), but the driver should be alive to the possibilities when they are so close to vulnerable people.

Cookie_Monster · 24-07-2018 12:38AM

did the driver even stop? Doesn't look like it.

Muahahaha · 24-07-2018 12:54AM

accensi0n wrote: »

I think it was also a stupid overtake by the cyclist, I see it everyday on my cycle to/from work, cyclists moving out of the cycle lane to overtake another cyclist without checking at all whether there might be a bus or articulated lorry just behind them.

Tend to agree, the entire incident would have been avoided by the cyclist doing a lifesaver. I see the same every day myself, unfortunately it seems a large number of cyclists dont know to look over their shoulder before moving out into the lane. The motorist seems to be asleep too but cyclists should be treating every motorist as if they are asleep and he put himself in unnecessary danger when a lifesaver would have made him cancel the overtake move.

Lumen · 24-07-2018 06:15AM

Looks like the cyclist only moved a couple of inches off his line before being hit.

buffalo · 24-07-2018 08:09AM

Lumen wrote: »

Looks like the cyclist only moved a couple of inches off his line before being hit.

You're right. When I saw this before, I thought he moved out to overtake the other cyclist and therefore a few feet, but he only moves a little more than the width of the line of the yellow box.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

did the driver even stop? Doesn't look like it.

They stop a little further up.

magicbastarder · 24-07-2018 08:30AM

he moved out about a foot or so, i'd say.

Tenzor07 · 24-07-2018 09:08AM

The guy on the bike was trying to get past the other cyclists... The woman/man in the car was racing against the other car on his/her right(and trying to get ahead before the parked cars/bus lane)..

However, the car driver was the one who clipped the cyclist and is therefore liable....

monument · 24-07-2018 11:51AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Piece on Fitzwilliam cycle route, might want a mug of tea it's a long one.

http://irishcycle.com/2018/07/22/cycle-route-to-be-dublins-first-with-parking-protection-and-junction-segregation/

A bit of a shorter article today:

“Strong opposition” to Dublin’s first cycle route with Dutch-like junctions http://irishcycle.com/2018/07/24/strong-opposition-to-dublins-first-cycle-route-with-dutch-like-junctions/

AndrewJRenko · 24-07-2018 12:34PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

did the driver even stop? Doesn't look like it.

From the reports at the time, the driver did stop and speak to the cyclist.

Lumen · 24-07-2018 01:34PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

he moved out about a foot or so, i'd say.

How wide are those lines?

Given that handlebar extent is about 20cm right of the wheel, it looks to me that even if the cyclist had held a perfect line, the passing distance would have been sqrt(f'all).

Screen_Shot_2018-07-24_at_13.30.08.png

Duckjob · 24-07-2018 05:07PM

Lumen wrote: »

How wide are those lines?

Given that handlebar extent is about 20cm right of the wheel, it looks to me that even if the cyclist had held a perfect line, the passing distance would have been sqrt(f'all).

+1

In an ideal world that driver would have some serious questions to answer to police about why he/she thought it was ok to squeeze past an unprotected road user with 2 tonnes of metal (did they even slow down? - did they f*ck).

Typical selfish, dangerous dick manoeuver you see happening every day. Could easily have gone another way and we would be posting RIP to another cyclist :mad:

magicbastarder · 24-07-2018 05:17PM

looking at it from above, i'm guessing the motorist had a 'once i hold my line, i don't have to pay as much attention' approach to driving.
but any overtaking manouevre from the cyclist should have involved a shoulder check - especially when the cyclist should have realised they were pulling out of the cycle lane to do so.

the road there is quite tight for carrying a cycle lane plus two normal lanes of traffic anyway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3322328,-6.2752037,49m/data=!3m1!1e3

Muahahaha · 24-07-2018 08:26PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

looking at it from above, i'm guessing the motorist had a 'once i hold my line, i don't have to pay as much attention' approach to driving.
but any overtaking manouevre from the cyclist should have involved a shoulder check - especially when the cyclist should have realised they were pulling out of the cycle lane to do so.

yeah no doubt the motorist has to shoulder blame here. Though I would imagine if it came up in court and the video was produced the judge would rule contributory negligence by the cyclist for not doing a shoulder check. I know he *only* moved about a foot or 15 inches out into the road but that was enough to get himself into trouble that was avoidable.

On a motorbike test if you make any change of position in your lane, either to the left or the right, without first shoulder checking your blindspot then you fail the test. As I once found out

Thargor · 24-07-2018 08:49PM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Curious though how a cyclist could kill people on a tram. Sounds like a bit of wanton hyperbole to me.

amcalester · 31-07-2018 08:08AM

Front page of the Daily Mail today

CRACKDOWN ON ROGUE CYCLISTS

Surge in number of fines doled out to bike menaces

I think it's to be welcomed that cyclists are being fined for breaking the law, no issues with that at all but in typical daily mail fashion it's been sensationalized as much as possible.

The author even appears to quote the same source twice

A senior security source told the Mail there has been a "renewed focus" by the Garda Traffic Corp on catching dangerous cyclists since 2017

and again

A senior security source yesterday confirmed "the force is focused" on "clamping down on dangerous cyclists"

Notice that the senior source called it the Traffic Corp and not the Roads Policing Unit.

Quote from Charlie Flanagan is a bit more levelled though

Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan said that the Roads Policing Unit is being "beefed up" as part of the force's Modernisation and Renewal Programme 2016 - 2021 but added that he wanted to see a "culture change" in how offending motorists were treating cyclists in particular

"I have formally written to the gardaí and I am keen to ensure cities in particular are safer for cyclists" he told Times Ireland yesterday

magicbastarder · 31-07-2018 10:04AM

same story in the IT:
Over 2,000 on-the-spot fines for cyclists in three years
Breaking red light the most common offence, accounting for 1,546 fixed-charge notices
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-2-000-on-the-spot-fines-for-cyclists-in-three-years-1.3580196

just to compare to motorists:
"In 2014 there were 4,970 detections for cars breaking a red light"
http://www.thejournal.ie/red-lights-gardai-cars-2364065-Oct2015/

What Username Guidelines · 31-07-2018 10:26AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

same story in the IT:
Over 2,000 on-the-spot fines for cyclists in three years
Breaking red light the most common offence, accounting for 1,546 fixed-charge notices
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-2-000-on-the-spot-fines-for-cyclists-in-three-years-1.3580196

just to compare to motorists:
"In 2014 there were 4,970 detections for cars breaking a red light"
http://www.thejournal.ie/red-lights-gardai-cars-2364065-Oct2015/

“Tuesday evening’s road death brings to three the number of cyclists who have lost their lives on Irish roads so far this year”

Where did that happen? Couldn’t see an article on it.

magicbastarder · 31-07-2018 10:29AM

i suspect they've reused a stock photo while also reusing the caption.

Steoller · 31-07-2018 10:32AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

i suspect they've reused a stock photo while also reusing the caption.

Yup, seeing as it's at least twice that for the year. Paper of record my foot.

31-07-2018 10:33AM

Final line of the IT piece "Seven cyclists have died on Irish roads this year."

Yeah, how many of those ran a red light.

Macy0161 · 31-07-2018 10:42AM

I think this is a positive story for cycling. For too long the narrative has been no enforcement on cyclists, while "shooting fish in a barrel" with motorists*. I also don't have an issue with enforcement on any/ all road users.

*obviously that's a whole different narrative, about how some illegal and dangerous behaviours are so normalised for motorists that they feel they can give out about enforcement

Borderfox · 31-07-2018 12:48PM

Following up about the 2000 on the spot fines given to cyclists on Lunchtime Live, all the usual strawman arguments being rolled out by the callers

Bernard sounded like a taxi driver I heard on Liveline

eclipsechaser · 31-07-2018 03:09PM

Dr Paul Corcoran, chairman of the Dublin Cycling Campaign, said breaking red lights was an issue “among a small percentage of cyclists”.

Seven cyclists have died on Irish roads this year.

That is unbelievably insensitive to the families of those who died. I'm pissed enough to cancel my subscription for that line.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We need to have a list of every fatal cycling incident and publicly publish the findings of the cause. Only then will it become clear that light-breaking is not why cyclists are dying. Cyclists can also learn when they are at most risk and be appropriately educated. They do such a database for Scuba - they should do it for fatal RTA's.

Corca Baiscinn · 31-07-2018 03:36PM

eclipsechaser wrote: »

That is unbelievably insensitive to the families of those who died. I'm pissed enough to cancel my subscription for that line.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We need to have a list of every fatal cycling incident and publicly publish the findings of the cause. Only then will it become clear that light-breaking is not why cyclists are dying. Cyclists can also learn when they are at most risk and be appropriately educated. They do such a database for Scuba - they should do it for fatal RTA's.

I have seen Dr Mike McKillen of the Dublin Cycling Campaign say something similar re the publicatiion of thorough and painstaking results of Air Accident Investigations versus RTA's.

Agree with you re the sloppy, insensitive journalism, there is no evidence at all of any connectiion between the 7 fatalities this year and RLJ. However, I wouldn't cancel my subscription as I still want to know what they're saying about cycling as well as everythig else

ED E · 31-07-2018 03:39PM

eclipsechaser wrote: »

That is unbelievably insensitive to the families of those who died. I'm pissed enough to cancel my subscription for that line.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We need to have a list of every fatal cycling incident and publicly publish the findings of the cause. Only then will it become clear that light-breaking is not why cyclists are dying. Cyclists can also learn when they are at most risk and be appropriately educated. They do such a database for Scuba - they should do it for fatal RTA's.

Big problem there is the glacial speed of the system. Inquests typically only start 18mo after the incident with findings often closer to 2yrs after. Thats another 30 deaths and 2900 serious injuries before we get to learn from it.

Journalism and cycling

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