Would you stand by him?

GreeBo · 29-07-2018 09:56PM

JayRoc wrote: »

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

How do you know it was a false accusation?

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-07-2018 10:05PM

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Naydy · 29-07-2018 10:12PM

JayRoc wrote: »

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

It absolutely ruined her life. The amount of hoops someone has to go through to get a conviction for rape in this country would make me sorely question why anyone would put themselves through it. Even on the rare occasion there is a conviction,you will still have people casting aspersions on the victim's character. I'm sure there are some cases where it happens but i would think it would be rare. If someone is found guilty beyond reasonable doubt of false allegations? Yep, throw the book at them. If there is simply lack of evidence? No i don't agree and think it would be a frightening precedent to set.

soups05 · 29-07-2018 10:48PM

i am amazed at the amount of human lie detectors on this site. so many say they would know if someone was lying to them. sorry but i call bs on that. if it was so easy to tell when someone is lying the world would be a much better place.

I have been with my wife since 1989 and can sometimes tell what she is thinking, but if she lied to me i would believe her. why would i doubt her? in these cases i believe you would believe the accused just cos you know him, your own bias would ensure that.

as to the op, it would depend on the circumstances as to if i would stand by him.

JayRoc · 29-07-2018 10:54PM

GreeBo wrote: »

How do you know it was a false accusation?

Fair question.

My own judgement of the friend in question aside (I was already sure he was innocent) it was quickly established by physical evidence that her entire accusation was false.

The DPP however decided against prosecuting her for her false accusation and anecdotally this seems to be standard. I am a loss as to why.

wakka12 · 29-07-2018 11:19PM

Id find it hard not to stand by a family member or close friend even if they committed a crime. Even if they were guilty..even if they admitted, Id find it so hard to associate a person I love, trust and admire with a horrible crime like that unless I had actually seen it occurring

29-07-2018 11:38PM

JayRoc wrote:

The DPP however decided against prosecuting her for her false accusation and anecdotally this seems to be standard. I am a loss as to why.

I can't claim to hear everything but I have honestly never ever heard of prosecuting a woman for making false claims like that. They should become mud sticks. There will always be someone who thinks he did it when it never happened at all

downwithpeace · 30-07-2018 12:02AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If a man in your life was accused of rape and it ended up in court. Be it a partner/friend/brother/son/friend/etc. Would you stand by him?
I ask this because I have heard some people say no woman would put themselves through a trial if it didn't happen.
Well obviously it would depend on the person but if they told me they didn't do it. I'd believe them. If there was a lot of evidence I might change my mind and some people I might be more dodge of than others.
I know this question can be turned the other way also.

If the person told me they didn't do it and they were a person I trust then I would take their word but suspect I would always have some doubt.

I would then stand by the person and if the Garda or courts asked me for my opinion or relationship/history about the person I would freely give all information I could.

If the person was charged and convicted and the evidence convinced me then I would hold my hands up and say I was incorrect and break all ties. If the person wasn't convicted then I would probably keep up the connection but doubt might still be there.

Hector Bellend · 30-07-2018 12:08AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If a man in your life was accused of rape and it ended up in court. Be it a partner/friend/brother/son/friend/etc. Would you stand by him?
I ask this because I have heard some people say no woman would put themselves through a trial if it didn't happen.
Well obviously it would depend on the person but if they told me they didn't do it. I'd believe them. If there was a lot of evidence I might change my mind and some people I might be more dodge of than others.
I know this question can be turned the other way also.

Anyone who believes this has issues.

Keyman123 · 30-07-2018 12:18AM

My first first reaction is have nothing do do with them, cut them out completely but all cases are different as are all relationships. Are all cases of rape on the same level? Could I disown a son who denies it? Difficult one. Nobody knows what they would do until they are in that situation.

Hector Bellend · 30-07-2018 12:28AM

whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty

Keyman123 · 30-07-2018 12:36AM

My apologies. I’ve jumped the gun. It would be my position on a guilty verdict.

Donald Trump · 30-07-2018 12:45AM

JayRoc wrote: »

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

There are two broad categories of "false accusation"

One is "what are you on about, I never touched her"
Other is "yeah we had sex but she consented"

There will always be a bit of doubt there in the second one. Especially if drink is involved.

I don't even mean doubt as to whether something legally wrong was done.

Mousewar · 30-07-2018 11:29AM

With regards my children and my wife I'd stand by them regardless of anything they'd done. That's as long as we agree on what 'stand by' means. That is, I would continue to love and support them in the hope that they would repent of their crimes and seek to repair the damage they had done to their victims and to themselves. It would not include helping them cover up their crimes or evading the law.
To that end, there is no crime they could commit that would cause me to forsake them.

Katgurl · 30-07-2018 12:27PM

That is a tough question and would depend entirely on the individuals involved.

Focusing on men; if my brother or my boyfriend were accused and outright denied it to me then yes I would believe them. They are very respectful to women and see them as equals, no question. My father on the other hand is extremel mysoginistic and I would weigh it all up. Similar with a few friends. The question mark would be that they assumed there was consent.

Regarding female claims I would consider what I knew about the person in question and listen to what they had to say. I can think of two very dramatic headmelters who have already bandied stupid claims about while looking for attention or getting revenge on someone. I'm not saying these women couldn't be raped but in these two particular situations it was driven by a transparent desire to cause trouble. Thankfully nobody paid them a blind bit of attention.

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 12:50PM

My best friend of 20 years is a man. I'm a woman.

Under no circumstances - bar his explicit admission of guilt that he forced an unwilling woman into sex - would I believe him.

No way. It's not in him. He says he didn't do it - he did not do it.

Having said that, if he did confess ? Yes I would 100% stand by him at trial, personally, character witness - whatever was needed.

Criticise away but that's my position.

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 12:54PM

Katgurl wrote: »

That is a tough question and would depend entirely on the individuals involved.

Focusing on men; if my brother or my boyfriend were accused and outright denied it to me then yes I would believe them. They are very respectful to women and see them as equals, no question. My father on the other hand is extremel mysoginistic and I would weigh it all up. Similar with a few friends. The question mark would be that they assumed there was consent.

Regarding female claims I would consider what I knew about the person in question and listen to what they had to say. I can think of two very dramatic headmelters who have already bandied stupid claims about while looking for attention or getting revenge on someone. I'm not saying these women couldn't be raped but in these two particular situations it was driven by a transparent desire to cause trouble. Thankfully nobody paid them a blind bit of attention.

Once when temping there was a young receptionist - one Saturday we were on overtime and she was nowhere to be seen.

Panicked phone calls, people out looking and we eventually persuaded the bar manager of the local pub to look at the CCTV, we showed her a picture.

She noted that the kid in question was with a man that no one recognised. We're about to call the police and in she walks. Hugs, etc etc.

Her first question was "is **** in ?" - the big boss. When told no, her reply was "shame, I had a whole story about being raped to cover. Keep that for next time".

This was a real man, a person with a family and he will never know how close he came to being falsely accused. Because an admittedly scary boss had take a weekend off.

....... · 30-07-2018 12:57PM

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PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 12:59PM

....... wrote: »

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Just a Devil's Advocate comment here - I worked for some time in the Child Support Agency. Horrifically there have been parents who make up sexual abuse of their children to win custody or punish an absent parent.

It is thankfully rare but it does happen.

volchitsa · 30-07-2018 01:02PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Once when temping there was a young receptionist - one Saturday we were on overtime and she was nowhere to be seen.

Panicked phone calls, people out looking and we eventually persuaded the bar manager of the local pub to look at the CCTV, we showed her a picture.

She noted that the kid in question was with a man that no one recognised. We're about to call the police and in she walks. Hugs, etc etc.

Her first question was "is **** in ?" - the big boss. When told no, her reply was "shame, I had a whole story about being raped to cover. Keep that for next time".

This was a real man, a person with a family and he will never know how close he came to being falsely accused. Because an admittedly scary boss had take a weekend off.

TBF that sounds very hard to believe. People panicked in an office because a receptionist had cleared off instead of doing overtime? That must be a very strange atmosphere to work in. I wonder how old the receptionists were. And you talk about showing a photo of a kid to a barman - do you mean the receptionist? Wasn't she at least 18, if she was doing overtime?

....... · 30-07-2018 01:03PM

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amdublin · 30-07-2018 01:08PM

That fella - actor from Galway- found guilty of rape recently. He told his wife the night before the trial about the charges. That was nice of him eh? Don't know if she stood by him.

Graham O'Dwyer. I believe his wife left him the day he was charged with the murder of Elaine O'Hara.

Marilyn Rynn/David Lawlor raped and killed her in 1995. His wife stuck around and I believe had another baby with him. The mind boggles.

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 01:13PM

volchitsa wrote: »

TBF that sounds very hard to believe. People panicked in an office because a receptionist had cleared off instead of doing overtime? That must be a very strange atmosphere to work in. I wonder how old the receptionists were. And you talk about showing a photo of a kid to a barman - do you mean the receptionist? Wasn't she at least 18, if she was doing overtime?

Why automatically go with someone is lying ?

We were out the night before, she was flitting around different people and we worried. She was over 18 but not by much.

It's called compassion.

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 01:15PM

amdublin wrote: »

That fella - actor from Galway- found guilty of rape recently. He told his wife the night before the trial about the charges. That was nice of him eh? Don't know if she stood by him.

Graham O'Dwyer. I believe his wife left him the day he was charged with the murder of Elaine O'Hara.

Marilyn Rynn/David Lawlor raped and killed her in 1995. His wife stuck around and I believe had another baby with him. The mind boggles.

I genuinely have problems with that case. Any case convicted largely on circumstancial evidence and what my nan would say "well if he's into that he's capable of anything".

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 01:15PM

....... wrote: »

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Fair point, thank you.

amdublin · 30-07-2018 01:16PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Why automatically go with someone is lying ?

We were out the night before, she was flitting around different people and we worried. She was over 18 but not by much.

It's called compassion.

That's an ironic question considering the big old lie the receptionist was going to come out with.

Seriously it sounded like a ridiculously convuluted story from the get go

volchitsa · 30-07-2018 01:17PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Why automatically go with someone is lying ?

We were out the night before, she was flitting around different people and we worried. She was over 18 but not by much.

It's called compassion.

Ok fair enough, but it sounded like she went missing from work. Like at lunchtime or something. If you actually mean she didn't turn up the next day then fair enough, but that's not how I read it. But things do get misunderstood on the Internet, I accept that.

amdublin · 30-07-2018 01:17PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I genuinely have problems with that case. Any case convicted largely on circumstancial evidence and what my nan would say "well if he's into that he's capable of anything".

I have no problems with it. Their emails, their text messages, the cctv of him in her apartment. What he said he would do to her that day (I'll be stabbing you with a knife). Surprise surprise she's dead and gone after interacting with him.

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 01:18PM

amdublin wrote: »

That's an ironic question considering the big old lie the receptionist was going to come out with.

Seriously it sounded like a ridiculously convuluted story from the get go

Hang on - you accused me of lying. She was and I have no doubt still is - a complete liar.

But YOU accused ME of telling a tall tale. So as usual with most people, the use of "ironic" is completely wrong.

PlaneSpeeking · 30-07-2018 01:19PM

amdublin wrote: »

I have no problems with it. Their emails, their text messages, the cctv of him in her apartment. What he said he would do to her that day (I'll be stabbing you with a knife). Surprise surprise she's dead and gone after interacting with him.

And I guarantee if someone texted me that they were going to stab me I'd not be saying "thank you Sir, see you at 7".

Would you stand by him?

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