BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Stephen15 · 27-07-2018 7:15pm

SPDUB wrote: »

The current 17 doesn't go into the city centre so I'm not sure what you are talking about .

What I was saying was that it's quicker to change in the city centre to get from Rialto or Dolphins Barn to UCD than get the 17. Now people doing this commute can change in Leeson Street or Donnybrook instead of the city centre.

LeinsterDub · 27-07-2018 10:01pm

SPDUB wrote: »

Well it wouldn't matter remembering them since as I said some of them are historic routes and you can get on any bus that passes by

Which is great when you're a local. Try telling that to a tourist or a northsider. Also all these buses land in different places in town so you've 2 sets of buses to remember the ones that get you into to town and the one that get you out along with a list of bus stops too.

SPDUB · 28-07-2018 1:06am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Try telling that to a tourist or a northsider.

I have and they found it easy to understand

LeinsterDub · 28-07-2018 1:14am

SPDUB wrote: »

I have and they found it easy to understand

https://www.livescience.com/2493-mind-limit-4.html
Actual science disagrees with you

dfx- · 28-07-2018 2:08am

SPDUB wrote: »

That's easy cause I have done it for my area

Walk to Crumlin Rd and get on any bus that comes along

Walk to Dolphins Barn and have even more choice .

Very easy to explain though not fair to other parts of the city

It really is not difficult. The concept of many routes all going through one place is not a problem.

SPDUB · 28-07-2018 2:12am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.livescience.com/2493-mind-limit-4.html
Actual science disagrees with you

So explain to me how the words Get on any bus is more than one concept/idea/task

Stephen15 · 28-07-2018 2:28am

SPDUB wrote: »

So explain to me how the words Get on any bus is more than one concept/idea/task

While I agree that bus numbers aren't the biggest deal as what I want as a passenger is an efficient service I don't really care what number my bus has however I do agree that for a tourist it is important to have a simple to understand system rather than listing out about 10 bus routes to get from town to an inner suburban destination like Crumlin or Drumcondra.

If someone asks you in the city centre "what bus do you take to Crumlin?" and you respond "Any bus" from x location you are wrong because not every bus goes to Crumlin from x location. Much easier to say any D bus than list all the numbers going to Crumlin.

Stephen15 · 28-07-2018 2:30am

SPDUB wrote: »

So explain to me how the words Get on any bus is more than one concept/idea/task

You can only say that to someone in Crumlin who wants to go to town you can't say it to someone in town who wants to go to Crumlin.

dfx- · 28-07-2018 3:02am

Stephen15 wrote: »

You can only say that to someone in Crumlin who wants to go to town you can't say it to someone in town who wants to go to Crumlin.

So you ask where do you want to go in Crumlin, it doesn't have to be answered in one question. Walker's 'Drumcondra' soundbite is overthinking it...

SG317 · 28-07-2018 6:55am

The problem is not the route numbers, because in this plan there are still numerous routes numbers and letters serving the same area i.e in the proposed plans the 16, 20, 250, 254, A2, W2, S8, S6, S7, W4 and W8 all go to The Square. What actually makes the syatem easier to use is when each bus stop has a map of where all the routes serving that bus stop go, as then someone can take a look at it and say okay in the current network if you want to get from Tallaght to Liffey Valley you take the 76 or 76A, if you want to get to Dame Street you take any of the 27, 49, 54A, 56A, 65 or 77A. This is not complicated.

The same logic can be achieved by renumbering some routes while keeping the historical significance of most of the routes. At the end of the day it is not the route numbers at fault, it is the lack of maps at bus stops that outline roughly where each route goes that is the problem. Changing all the route numbers is an unnecessary excercise.

CatInABox · 28-07-2018 8:48am

SG317 wrote: »

The problem is not the route numbers, because in this plan there are still numerous routes numbers and letters serving the same area i.e in the proposed plans the 16, 20, 250, 254, A2, W2, S8, S6, S7, W4 and W8 all go to The Square. What actually makes the syatem easier to use is when each bus stop has a map of where all the routes serving that bus stop go, as then someone can take a look at it and say okay in the current network if you want to get from Tallaght to Liffey Valley you take the 76 or 76A, if you want to get to Dame Street you take any of the 27, 49, 54A, 56A, 65 or 77A. This is not complicated.

The same logic can be achieved by renumbering some routes while keeping the historical significance of most of the routes. At the end of the day it is not the route numbers at fault, it is the lack of maps at bus stops that outline roughly where each route goes that is the problem. Changing all the route numbers is an unnecessary excercise.

Well, on the spines, the numbers definitely had to change as the route itself has changed. Routes no longer go into town and turn around, they go straight through the city centre and out the other side. Which number should the bus use then?

sharper · 28-07-2018 8:49am

SG317 wrote: »

The problem is not the route numbers, because in this plan there are still numerous routes numbers and letters serving the same area i.e in the proposed plans the 16, 20, 250, 254, A2, W2, S8, S6, S7, W4 and W8 all go to The Square. .

How many of those go through the same stop? i.e. if you are at a given stop what do you need to take to get to The Square? You listed all a number of western and sourthern orbitals for example and I can't imagine they converge much unless you're already very close to Tallaght.

I think the current numbering system is hard to defend. The new system at least prepends each route with a letter telling you something approximate about where it's going. Under the current system even the same route number doesn't always bring you to the same place, you have to check the destination listed on the bus itself.

bk · 28-07-2018 9:14am

SPDUB wrote: »

That's easy cause I have done it for my area
......

Very easy to explain though not fair to other parts of the city

Actually I literally had this issue again just this week.

My sister and two nephews were coming too visit a few days ago. We tried to explain to them how to get to ours. We were like you can get the 13 from OCS or the 1 or 16 from the next bus stop up, oh ****, you have a buggy and it is 6pm the buses will be mad, better to get the 41 from Abbey St!

As someone not from Dublin, she was completely confused. Of course in the end she got here, but it would have been so much easier just to tell her, get any A bus from any A stop, so much simpler. So much easier for new people to the system to understand.

But let me give you two other even more important reasons, that will benefit long time users like you and me.

1) The 1, 16, 44, 11, 13, 41 are all spread across different bus stops in the city center. Incredibly stupid. Almost every day you will see people running between the 16 and 13 stop on OCS as they see a different bus coming sooner! And of course you have little hope of taking the 41 over on Abbey St despite it stopping at the same places in Drumcondra as all the above!

Just having one A stop where everyone can go from will be much simpler.

2) But the above reason they are leaving from different stops is even stupider. All the routes are scheduled as completely different routes and often are actually scheduled to overlap! So that the 13 and 16 could be leaving at exactly the same time, thus causing bunching right from the start and possibly big gaps in the schedule in between! Stupid.

Under Jarrett's plan, all the A buses will now be scheduled as one, so that at least they aren't scheduled to overlap and hopefully will reduce bunching. So it will be scheduled like: A1 at 4:00, A2 at 4:02, A3 at 4:05, A4 at 4:07, A1 at 4:10, etc.

Those of us on these routes will greatly benefit from these changes. They make far more sense. Reducing the confusion and making it simpler is just the cherry on top.

devnull · 28-07-2018 10:31am

SPDUB wrote: »

I have and they found it easy to understand

It's easy to understand because you have the experience that you have of the bus service and the areas it serves over many years, this is why you find it simple.

I know colleagues who have come to Dublin from abroad and those who have never used the bus and they all find it confusing.

Best way of testing how easy to understand a system is to get people who have never experienced it and have no knowledge of it and see how they get on unaided.

So you ask where do you want to go in Crumlin, it doesn't have to be answered in one question. Walker's 'Drumcondra' soundbite is overthinking it...

My old lecturer always said that any sign that needs another sign to explain the sign has failed it's purpose.

Walker is looking at it through the eyes of current car users and people who have never used the bus service to try and attract modal shift to help our congestion problems.

If you look at everything through the eyes of existing users all the time only, you'll never get people out of their cars, because existing users are the already converted.

antoinolachtnai · 28-07-2018 12:18pm

Well this comes down to whether these claims for the new design stand up:

The number of people living within 400m of a bus service that operates every 10 minutes or better, will increase by 35 per cent from 480,000 to 650,000. The number of people living within 400m of a bus service that operates every 15 minutes or better, will increase by 31 per cent from 765,000 to almost 1,000,000.

The number of jobs or college places situated within 400m of a bus service operating every 10 minutes or better will increase by 18 per cent from 540,000 to 640,000.

In the end that seems like a massive improvement for 240,000 odd people.

CatInABox · 28-07-2018 2:05pm

Good news for more clarity.

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1023189469174755328

LeinsterDub · 28-07-2018 2:09pm

SPDUB wrote: »

So explain to me how the words Get on any bus is more than one concept/idea/task

I've already explained. It might be easy going in but no going out of town. You've also picked the best case for your example. It's rarely so simple

ThunbergsAreGo · 28-07-2018 2:10pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well this comes down to whether these claims for the new design stand up:

In the end that seems like a massive improvement for 240,000 odd people.

A bus is only useful if it goes where you want to go though.

Multiple people are closer to "a bus" but need to swap to get to their destination .

I would like a stat on the percentage that have a route to the city centre. Everywhere north of Swords seems to have lost it

ThunbergsAreGo · 28-07-2018 2:12pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Good news for more clarity.

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1023189469174755328

This would be very welcome

LeinsterDub · 28-07-2018 2:25pm

SG317 wrote: »

The problem is not the route numbers, because in this plan there are still numerous routes numbers and letters serving the same area i.e in the proposed plans the 16, 20, 250, 254, A2, W2, S8, S6, S7, W4 and W8 all go to The Square. What actually makes the syatem easier to use is when each bus stop has a map of where all the routes serving that bus stop go, as then someone can take a look at it and say okay in the current network if you want to get from Tallaght to Liffey Valley you take the 76 or 76A, if you want to get to Dame Street you take any of the 27, 49, 54A, 56A, 65 or 77A. This is not complicated.

The same logic can be achieved by renumbering some routes while keeping the historical significance of most of the routes. At the end of the day it is not the route numbers at fault, it is the lack of maps at bus stops that outline roughly where each route goes that is the problem. Changing all the route numbers is an unnecessary excercise.

Too add to this the system is designed to help interchange. Expect to hear. Ballymun Road alight here for interchange with the E and the stop will be right across the road if its not the same stop

Stephen15 · 28-07-2018 4:55pm

Regarding the 90 min commuter line transfers

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1023229459854282752?s=19

cgcsb · 28-07-2018 6:45pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

A bus is only useful if it goes where you want to go though.

A fundamentally untrue statement.

ThunbergsAreGo · 28-07-2018 6:56pm

cgcsb wrote: »

A fundamentally untrue statement.

I'll correct it, only useful to YOU if it gets you to where you want to go

LeinsterDub · 28-07-2018 7:47pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

I'll correct it, only useful to YOU if it gets you to where you want to go

A bus is useful if it get you part of the part to where you want to go

Dyr · 28-07-2018 7:53pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Too add to this the system is designed to help interchange. Expect to hear. Ballymun Road alight here for interchange with the E and the stop will be right across the road if its not the same stop

Maybe add a useful addendum at this time of year wishing you luck finding a bus on the Ballymun road that hasn't been seconded to DCUs language school

Another phenomenon Jarret might not be familar with.:)

LeinsterDub · 28-07-2018 8:41pm

Bambi wrote: »

Maybe add a useful addendum at this time of year wishing you luck finding a bus on the Ballymun road that hasn't been seconded to DCUs language school

Another phenomenon Jarret might not be familar with.:)

Public transport used by the public shocker?

Dyr · 28-07-2018 9:43pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Public transport used by the public shocker?

Its the opposite, the public ( y'know the people who's money you're spending on this bus project to try coax them out of their cars) can't use the public service because a commercial group are using that public service in lieu of a commercial one to save money. Actually if you check with Dublin Bus you might find they have a limit on the size of the group that they will accept on a bus, if anyone from Dublin Bus posted here they could probably confirm or deny that.

For the same reason that DCU and other private companies can't just swamp Alberts College Park with their customers to run events when they please.

Anyway Jarret is all for coaxing people out of their cars so I'm sure he's fully aware of the situation and the plan will address such issues, otherwise his transfers are up the creek.

Stephen15 · 28-07-2018 10:06pm

Bambi wrote: »

Its the opposite, the public ( y'know the people who's money you're spending on this bus project to try coax them out of their cars) can't use the public service because a commercial group are using that public service in lieu of a commercial one to save money. Actually if you check with Dublin Bus you might find they have a limit on the size of the group that they will accept on a bus, if anyone from Dublin Bus posted here they could probably confirm or deny that.

For the same reason that DCU and other private companies can't just swamp Alberts College Park with their customers to run events when they please.

Anyway Jarret is all for coaxing people out of their cars so I'm sure he's fully aware of the situation and the plan will address such issues, otherwise his transfers are up the creek.

Have you used public transport in other countries?

AlekSmart · 28-07-2018 10:22pm

Bambi wrote: »

Maybe add a useful addendum at this time of year wishing you luck finding a bus on the Ballymun road that hasn't been seconded to DCUs language school

Another phenomenon Jarret might not be familar with.:)

It's an addendum alright,but a somewhat mean spirited one I suggest.

The language students I carry on a daily basis are 100% welcome aboard my bus.
They are travelling on Leap Cards,some on Ramblers,others on the Purse,but they ARE paying a fare.
They also travel on journeys largely off peak,on which the natives have become accustomed to plenty of leg room and thinking space,whereas now,they have to share this space with loud,boisterous,good humoured but almost totally benign foreign adolescents.

I would be far more wary of similar groups of native chizzlers,than of my Foreign student friends.

It may also be worth noting that a major reason why BAC "Summer Schedules" were reduced in number this year,was the demand for space due to the Language Students.

Are we now to accuse the young Forreners of stealing our Jobs,Women,Overtime AND Public Transport Space as well ?

We need more Foreign Students,not less !

Dyr · 28-07-2018 10:44pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's an addendum alright,but a somewhat mean spirited one I suggest.

The language students I carry on a daily basis are 100% welcome aboard my bus.
They are travelling on Leap Cards,some on Ramblers,others on the Purse,but they ARE paying a fare.
They also travel on journeys largely off peak,on which the natives have become accustomed to plenty of leg room and thinking space,whereas now,they have to share this space with loud,boisterous,good humoured but almost totally benign foreign adolescents.

I would be far more wary of similar groups of native chizzlers,than of my Foreign student friends.

It may also be worth noting that a major reason why BAC "Summer Schedules" were reduced in number this year,was the demand for space due to the Language Students.

Are we now to accuse the young Forreners of stealing our Jobs,Women,Overtime AND Public Transport Space as well ?

We need more Foreign Students,not less !

Not your bus, it's mine. Tax payer vs employee

. The horde doesn't actually affect me, I'm on the bus before these guys and I have really good headphones. Hate to disappoint.

The punters you're flying past on griffith avenue and drumcondra road might feel differently though. The people who couldn't get off at their stop because the saloon and stairs were blocked by students might also want a word with you.

But yeah, good luck luring the public out of cars onto meat wagons, credible strategy that.

They're most certainly are not just travelling off peak, there was a trend last year for that but not this year. Bit suspicious of your credentials now tbh.

Interesting to note that the hordes around Trinity are mostly using private transport, perhaps Trinity has that bit more classs.

We need less bottom tier tourists not more, Dublin is at peak tourist, as are many european cities. Quality not quantity required.

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Comments