Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Nox · 27-07-2018 9:40am

I love it when the left keeps screaming collusion. First, no collusion proved. Second, collusion is not a crime. Third, the lemmings on the left will keep on following the Pied Piper (yeah, I know rats were in the original story, but overly sensitive left lemmings would cry to a mod about being offended if I called them rats) and believe that there was a crime, when there was not.

It's also quite interesting that regardless of the positive financial news, the haters find some way to try to denigrate it. Under the former administration … GDP slogged along at a whopping 1% … for multiple YEARS. Now we are tripling or even quadrupling that and the lefties try to demean it by saying that 'it is not sustainable' and 'the economy will collapse'. Yep ,,, 1% is sustainable … and it might even lead to collapse.

Speaking of economic collapse, anyone besides me remember a certain college paper written about how to collapse the US via economy?

Hande hoche! · 27-07-2018 9:43am

North Korea transferred war remains to the US. Bit later than expected. Still probably a bit of closure to the families. Hopefully a precursor to further positive developments.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1022672567302270978

Wanderer78 · 27-07-2018 9:48am

Nox wrote:

I love it when the left keeps screaming collusion....

What are you fecken talking about? Economic downturns occur periodically, fact, one is on the way, but nobody knows the exact details, it may occur under trumps watch, and it may not, it may be a serious one, and it may not be

Christy42 · 27-07-2018 9:49am

Err. The previous administration had to bring it up from - 2.8%....

Obama did plenty to increase the US gdp.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/#0

But hey let's pretend the economy was a mess so we can pretend Trump has done great.

Second I feel like the son of a sitting us president who is heavily involved in his campaigns potentially going towards a mandatory jail sentence for lying about his Dad's campaign under oath is big news.

Peregrinus · 27-07-2018 10:00am

Nox wrote: »

I love it when the left keeps screaming collusion. First, no collusion proved. Second, collusion is not a crime. Third, the lemmings on the left will keep on following the Pied Piper (yeah, I know rats were in the original story, but overly sensitive left lemmings would cry to a mod about being offended if I called them rats) and believe that there was a crime, when there was not.[/font][/size][/color]

It's also quite interesting that regardless of the positive financial news, the haters find some way to try to denigrate it. Under the former administration … GDP slogged along at a whopping 1% … for multiple YEARS. Now we are tripling or even quadrupling that and the lefties try to demean it by saying that 'it is not sustainable' and 'the economy will collapse'. Yep ,,, 1% is sustainable … and it might even lead to collapse. [/font][/size][/color]

Speaking of economic collapse, anyone besides me remember a certain college paper written about how to collapse the US via economy?[/font][/size][/color]

Anybody remember GDP growth rates? Nox doesn't, because he says that they were "slogging along at a whopping 1% for multiple years", which is not the case. Friday's yet-to-be-published quarterly GDP figure is predicted to be 4.2%, which is nice because it's the highest since . . . . Q3 of 2014. Nox can't remember that far back.

In fact the last time there was "multiple years" (I.e. two years in a row) of GDP growth in the US of 1% or less was 2008-09, and we know whose fault that was, don't we, boy and girls? 2009 excepted, throughout the Obama administration annual GDP growth in the US was within the range 3.1% to 4.8%.

Nox can't remember any of this, however. Scorn not his simplicity, but rather try to love him all the more.

StringerBell · 27-07-2018 10:03am

everlast75 wrote: »

Yeah.

So anyway, apparently Cohen is ready to confirm to Mueller that Trump knew in advance about the Trump Tower meeting. If this is true, and lordy if there are tapes, its close to checkmate!?

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1022648867224014849?s=19

May be true, hell I'd go so far as to say it's likely true but there seems to be no evidence to support Cohen's claim. No tapes or documents, apparently he says other people can corroborate this. His word isn't going to mean anything so hopefully there are others who can corroborate if true.

Mueller has been so good at keeping out leaks that they actually may already have had access to these corroborating witnesses and we don't know Cohen is desperately shopping for immunity from somewhere, whether it's from the SC or whether it's a plea to Trump for protection in exchange for silence I'm not sure.

One thing I am sure of is that Cohen would have a lot of information that is surely of use to an investigation, his credibility is the biggest issue. Mueller doesn't seem to have come to him, cohrn has gone to them. It's possible Mueller doesn't actually feel like he really needs Cohen or possibly that he just isn't a credible source and wants to avoid any potential issue going forward.

Plenty to run on the story anyway.

Leroy42 · 27-07-2018 10:03am

Nox wrote: »

I love it when the left keeps screaming collusion. First, no collusion proved. Second, collusion is not a crime. Third, the lemmings on the left will keep on following the Pied Piper (yeah, I know rats were in the original story, but overly sensitive left lemmings would cry to a mod about being offended if I called them rats) and believe that there was a crime, when there was not.

You know what is really strange? You could raise exactly the same arguments about the 'rights' position on HC.

StringerBell · 27-07-2018 10:06am

Nox wrote: »

color=#000000][font=Times New RomanI love it when the left keeps screaming collusion. First, no collusion proved. Second, collusion is not a crime. Third, the lemmings on the left will keep on following the Pied Piper (yeah, I know rats were in the original story, but overly sensitive left lemmings would cry to a mod about being offended if I called them rats) and believe that there was a crime, when there was not.[/font][/color]

[size=3It's also quite interesting that regardless of the positive financial news, the haters find some way to try to denigrate it. Under the former administration … GDP slogged along at a whopping 1% … for multiple YEARS. Now we are tripling or even quadrupling that and the lefties try to demean it by saying that 'it is not sustainable' and 'the economy will collapse'. Yep ,,, 1% is sustainable … and it might even lead to collapse. [/size]

Speaking of economic collapse, anyone besides me remember a certain college paper written about how to collapse the US via economy?

RIGOLO had the same font/size/color issues didn't it?

Funny coincidence that

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-07-2018 10:08am

Christy42 wrote: »

Does it not still rely on Republicans caring enough? I don't see it. Nor do I see enough of his base flipping to force the issue in November over collusion the Russians.

I mean it absolutely would be a smoking gun in terms of proof but not sure anything will be done.

The pessimist in me would tend to agree sadly.
The average voter will look no further than their own slice of the pie.
As long as they are better off, or perceived better off, they may not want to take the risk and vote for someone else.
November and 2020 will show us how many people in the US will be willing to wipe their arse with concerns about other people and belong to the "Me! Me! Me!" generation.
Sadly a phenomenon also inflicting Europe at the time.

pixelburp · 27-07-2018 10:10am

Nox wrote: »

I love it when the left keeps screaming collusion. First, no collusion proved. Second, collusion is not a crime. Third, the lemmings on the left will keep on following the Pied Piper (yeah, I know rats were in the original story, but overly sensitive left lemmings would cry to a mod about being offended if I called them rats) and believe that there was a crime, when there was not.

It's utterly hypocritical to affect superiority over the discussion, when 'the right' fell over themselves to prosecute Clinton, be it for real controversies (Benghazi) or imagined (Pizzagate). Or let's not forget Trump definitively promising during one of the 2016 debates that he'd open an investigation on Clinton - I guess another broken promise. He keeps talking about email servers, yet where is the dogged investigation? He's the most powerful man in the world, with both houses in his pocket, so ... where are the smoking guns?

Or indeed let's observe the last President, where a noisy minority continuously tried to imply he was either a foreign citizen, or a secret muslim. Or both. Does it even need saying who was the biggest noisemaker behind the Birther movement? Where he boasted of bombshell info, just to keep the continuous bullsh*t conspiracy alive. If it wasn't tan suits, it was his choice of mustard and Fox News attacked nearly constantly.

So yeah, don't bring the snark about 'the left' when it only demonstrates a complete lack of self-awareness that politics in the US is so irredeemably partisan there's muck on both sides of the aisle - but at least in this case there is a continuous drip of evidence ranging from circumstantial to damning. But sure if you bothered to read other threads on this site, you'd soon find that regular contributors here don't neatly fit into the box marked 'the left'. Anti-Trump does not equal 'the left' and frankly it shouldn't even need pointing out.

Leroy42 · 27-07-2018 10:20am

StringerBell wrote: »

May be true, hell I'd go so far as to say it's likely true but there seems to be no evidence to support Cohen's claim. No tapes or documents, apparently he says other people can corroborate this. His word isn't going to mean anything so hopefully there are others who can corroborate if true.

It a strange time we live in when Trump, a known liar, is calling out others as having no credibility.

Trump, who continued to support Flynn even after it was shown he had lied to both the FBI and the VP, had very little issues with Cohen until this point. I don't recall him ever bringing up that Cohen was a liar. I would have thought he might have mentioned it during the Stormy Daniels issue, but not a peep.

If Cohen has no credibility then where does that leave Trump's level of credibility?

B0jangles · 27-07-2018 10:21am

Question for Nox: if Clinton's crimes are so multifarious and obvious why have no charges been brought against her?

The republicans control the White House, the Senate and Congress - they haven't managed to produce a single sustainable charge against her when they literally control every arm of the government.

On the flipside, evidence and charges just keep on piling up against Team Trump in the face of constant obfuscation from the same republican-controlled senate, congress and White House.

Oh, yeah, it's all the 'Deep State', isn't? The shadowy organisation with complete control over the entire apparatus of the state that somehow couldn't prevent Trump being elected.

Captain Obvious · 27-07-2018 10:24am

Nox wrote: »

I love it when the left keeps screaming collusion. First, no collusion proved. Second, collusion is not a crime. Third, the lemmings on the left will keep on following the Pied Piper (yeah, I know rats were in the original story, but overly sensitive left lemmings would cry to a mod about being offended if I called them rats) and believe that there was a crime, when there was not.

It's also quite interesting that regardless of the positive financial news, the haters find some way to try to denigrate it. Under the former administration … GDP slogged along at a whopping 1% … for multiple YEARS. Now we are tripling or even quadrupling that and the lefties try to demean it by saying that 'it is not sustainable' and 'the economy will collapse'. Yep ,,, 1% is sustainable … and it might even lead to collapse.

Speaking of economic collapse, anyone besides me remember a certain college paper written about how to collapse the US via economy?

This is just pathetic. Can't argue the points raised so we have a clear copy/paste full of all the buzz words of the propaganda machine. But let's take your rant bit by bit.

Cohen's claim that Trump knew about the meeting with Russians is proof of collusion.

You're likely right in that there is no specific offence of collusion. But that does not mean what was done during that collusion is not illegal. Although, if Trump's best defence is that it is not specifically illegal to collude with a hostile foreign government, he's in trouble. I mean, it's not illegal for me to make a phone call but if during that phone call I ask the other person to kill someone I have committed a crime. The call itself is still legal though.

What you call positive financial news most people see for what it actually is, spin. It's like throwing all the homeless in jail and then saying you have successfully tackled the homeless crisis. And I'm sorry if you don't like it when economists and financial experts don't look at a single quarter's figures and celebrate. They tend to look at things more long term and that's a bleak outlook if Trump keeps doing what he is doing.

The previous administration had positive GDP of between 1.5% and 2.5% growth every year didn't they? They also created jobs every year and reduced unemployment by about 6%. That's aside from the benefits they brought to so many in need using things like the ACA. And, of course, there is the diplomatic status they fostered throughout the world, a status that has been decimated by Trump, who is now seen as an idiot by those who have to deal with him. And he's only been at it a year and a half.

And, no, I have no idea what college paper you are talking about.

Captain Obvious · 27-07-2018 10:25am

B0jangles wrote: »

Question for Nox: if Clinton's crimes are so multifarious and obvious why have no charges been brought against her?

The republicans control the White House, the Senate and Congress - they haven't managed to produce a single sustainable charge against her when they literally control every arm of the government.

On the flipside, evidence and charges just keep on piling up against Team Trump in the face of constant obfuscation from the same republican-controlled senate, congress and White House.

Oh, yeah, it's all the 'Deep State', isn't? The shadowy organisation with complete control over the entire apparatus of the state that somehow couldn't prevent Trump being elected.

Don't forget all the Republican Trump appointees heading up the law enforcement agencies.

StringerBell · 27-07-2018 10:39am

Leroy42 wrote: »

It a strange time we live in when Trump, a known liar, is calling out others as having no credibility.

Trump, who continued to support Flynn even after it was shown he had lied to both the FBI and the VP, had very little issues with Cohen until this point. I don't recall him ever bringing up that Cohen was a liar. I would have thought he might have mentioned it during the Stormy Daniels issue, but not a peep.

If Cohen has no credibility then where does that leave Trump's level of credibility?

Trump has no credibility either, nobody (other than Giuliani) would dispute that.

You know it's not going to matter one little bit, Cohen is a potential landmine for Mueller which is my hunch as to why Mueller has not approached him. If Cohen can provide real evidence, his word is not going to be enough, then great! If not then Mueller is too smart to try to use him in any meaningful way.

Trump has zero credibility. Cohen is in the same boat and him going to the press rather than just taking what he has to Mueller isnt a good sign. It is a sign that Cohen recognises how much of a credibility problem he has alright.

TL;DR when one liar accuses another liar without solid evidence you are not going to get past reasonable doubt. Cohens word alone isn't going to be enough

mcmoustache · 27-07-2018 11:53am

Avenatti's at it again. At a panel in California, he announced that:

"There are three additional female clients of mine that have not been disclosed that were paid hush money prior to the 2016 election, whether it be from Michael Cohen on behalf of the president, an entity that Michael Cohen formed, or AMI," he said.

He added that one of the women claimed to be pregnant at the time, and that he is in the process of getting clearance from his clients to release more details related to the payments. It was unclear if they may have been over affairs with Trump.

At this point, this is just his claim. It's not proven but whatever his game is regarding these payments from Trump, he seems to know what he's doing. We already know that he paid off Stormy and Cohen recorded him discussing payments to Karen McDougal. If the pregnancy turns out to be true, there's either a child, a miscarriage or an abortion. I would guess that since the allegation isn't about a child that that there was a miscarriage or and abortion.

If Trump was paying hush-money to a pregnant woman, I wonder what he would want in return?

Kiith · 27-07-2018 12:03pm

Nox wrote: »

Wow … a new thread on President Donald J Trump and all of the haters of the POTUS are ringing their bells again. I notice that virtually every day the MSM have a new 'scandal d' jour' … among them, Helsinki, security clearances, Cohen tapes, missing questions and answers, NOKO missile dismantling (which can be instantly reassembled), and myriad others. Seems to me that something like the Friday GDP numbers and the EU tariff discussions should be paramount but alas they are not. So let us spend more time on the meaningless Cohen tapes and/or the next investigation of the tweets by the useless Special Counsel and see how many more pages of tripe we can add to this new topic.

Yeah, lets not talk about the things that show Trump to be a liar, cheat and possible pawn for Russia (willingly or not), and only talk about the things that could possibly show him in a good (or at least not bad) light :rolleyes:

Leroy42 · 27-07-2018 12:07pm

And lest we forget, Trump, SHS, Guiliani and all the others have been telling us that this will all be wrapped up by..when was it the last time they said it?

And yet Trump still refuses to give an interview to Mueller.

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-07-2018 12:30pm

Christy42 wrote: »

Err. The previous administration had to bring it up from - 2.8%....

Obama did plenty to increase the US gdp.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/#0

But hey let's pretend the economy was a mess so we can pretend Trump has done great.

Second I feel like the son of a sitting us president who is heavily involved in his campaigns potentially going towards a mandatory jail sentence for lying about his Dad's campaign under oath is big news.

And a lot of people are ignoring this point so hard, you'd worry they'd pop a bloodvessel.
I find the way they view the economy simply astounding.

Any Republican has any growth: Masterful command of economics and sheer genius politics
Any (or every) Republican has a massive crash: Cyclical market forces that yield inevitable results, was completely unforseable and could not have been prevented by anyone.
Any Democrat has growth: Riding on the coattails of the previous administration (if Republican), cyclical market forces, nothing to do with government, wasn't that great or "real" growth anyway.
Any Democrat has a crash: Brought on 100% by the Democrats and nothing else, utterly preventable and nothing but ineptitude.

mcmoustache · 27-07-2018 12:35pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

And lest we forget, Trump, SHS, Guiliani and all the others have been telling us that this will all be wrapped up by..when was it the last time they said it?

I think that at this point, I can safely say that the three that you mentioned are full of shít. They're consistently wrong about everything.

pixelburp · 27-07-2018 12:37pm

It's galling to listen to these pronouncements of supreme growth from some users, given it took 10 years for our own economy to recover from The Crash of 2008 - and many argue we are still struggling for a variety of reasons - a decade probably being a reasonable time period for any first world country to recover (albeit via painful austerity). Economies fail fast and take longer to recover.

Yet to hear some you'd swear Trump singlehandedly rescued the US economy in 18 months. I don't pretend to be an economics expert but the fawning is patently absurd, the selective memory and refusal to grant the previous administration the merest sliver of praise fairly pathetic, to be blunt.

Christy42 · 27-07-2018 12:46pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's galling to listen to these pronouncements of supreme growth from some users, given it took 10 years for our own economy to recover from The Crash of 2008 - and many argue we are still struggling for a variety of reasons - a decade probably being a reasonable time period for any first world country to recover (albeit via painful austerity). Economies fail fast and take longer to recover.

Yet to hear some you'd swear Trump singlehandedly rescued the US economy in 18 months. I don't pretend to be an economics expert but the fawning is patently absurd, the selective memory and refusal to grant the previous administration the merest sliver of praise fairly pathetic, to be blunt.

Ah sure didn't they have 40% unemployment a few months before he took office? Kind of weird how they all stopped talking about the "real" unemployment rate and what number to use.

Zubeneschamali · 27-07-2018 12:48pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Trump is trump and whenever he leaves the White House he'll probably go back to New York I'd assume. It's the other people in his administration that I'm curious about. These people who are younger than he is and will have to have lives outside of Washington after this.

If you mean people in Trump's cabinet, they don't care. Betsy DeVos was in the news recently because her $40m yacht got scratched. Her family own 10 such yachts.

If you mean lower level staffers - experience in the White House is still experience. It is not their fault that Trump is six cans short of a sixpack. The next Republican administration will hire them again, and in the meantime they will work for the Republican party, republican congresscritters, or right wing think tanks.

26000 Elephants · 27-07-2018 3:13pm

Nox wrote: »

Under the former administration … GDP slogged along at a whopping 1% … for multiple YEARS.

Now we are tripling or even quadrupling that and the lefties try to demean it by saying that 'it is not sustainable'

In your fantasy world Trump has indeed done great things.

However, here in the real world, the reality is a little different: GDP actually *slogged* along at over 2% for multiple YEARS. Despite that we suffered the biggest financial collapse in 07/08. Trump can massage his figures temporarily by essentially gifting 10% of GDP to the wealthy, but that is not, like.... sustainable?

(graphic from above link)

Dog Man Star · 27-07-2018 3:28pm

OFF TOPIC

Nox/Rigolo:

It's pretty clear that this poster is dumping text into this forum under at least two names, and is presumably dumping text into many other forums too.

I don't know why this is being tolerated here.

ancapailldorcha · 27-07-2018 3:38pm

Dog Man Star wrote: »

OFF TOPIC

Nox/Rigolo:

It's pretty clear that this poster is dumping text into this forum under at least two names, and is presumably dumping text into many other forums too.

I don't know why this is being tolerated here.

If you have a problem with a post, report it please.

mcmoustache · 27-07-2018 3:40pm

It looks like Putin invited Trump over to Moscow. There's nothing too unusual about that, to be fair. The only unusual thing is that, like a lot of what happens between Trump and Putin, the information comes from Putin or the Kremlin.

“Regarding our meetings, I understand very well what President Trump said. He has a desire to have further meetings,” Putin said.

“I am ready for that. We need for the appropriate conditions to exist, to be created, including in our countries,” Putin told a news conference.

“We are ready for such meetings. We are ready to invite President Trump to Moscow. Be my guest. He has such an invitation, I told him that.”

As I said, a US president being invited to Russia isn't that unusual but there are already lots of silly jokes about asylum, exfiltrating assets and performance reviews doing the rounds.

Chips Lovell · 27-07-2018 4:11pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If you have a problem with a post, report it please.

Just to add to this, if people are reporting posts alleging that someone's posts are being copied/pasted from elsewhere, could you please include a link of where they're being copied from.

Thanks.

MadYaker · 27-07-2018 4:31pm

You’d wonder what people like Sarah Huckabee Sanders and all the others who have repeatedly lied for trump are going to do after his presidency is over. They lie to the public then s few months later the truth comes out leaving them with zero credibility. Not that I’d have any sympathy for him. Write a book I suppose. Trump seems to be edging closer to having broken campaign finance laws. Giuliani has destroyed his credibility as well. It’s pretty clear that you can hear trump saying “cash” on the tape. I’m guessing you guys heard his attempt to spin that.

Trump supporters heads will explode if it’s campaign finances that bring him down as it has nothing to do with Russia. I’m impressed by their ability to swallow lie after lie though. Every time he gets caught out lieing they just say they don’t care. I’ve never seen any politician get cut so much slack from his supporters.

pixelburp · 27-07-2018 4:37pm

Don't underestimate the size, reach and wealth of the Conservative political bubble; there are adequate pressure groups, quangos, think tanks, slush funds etc. that'd be more than happy to hire the likes of Sanders to make speeches or fill seats at conferences. Assuming the Trump Presidency doesn't completely crash n' burn, and Republicans are happy enough to keep their colours pinned to that particular mast in later years, all associated with the administration will do very nicely I'd wager.

Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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