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Peak Trans

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Comments

  • #692
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Of course, there's no blurring of the lines at all. No crossover between men and women's hairstyles at all. That's why unisex hairdressers don't exist.

    I actually don’t know of any unisex hairdressers nor have I ever heard one man saying he went to a hair dresser.


  • #693
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Doctor Jimbob wrote:
    Of course, there's no blurring of the lines at all. No crossover between men and women's hairstyles at all. That's why unisex hairdressers don't exist.

    That's why the person should have gone to a unisex salon perhaps.


  • #694
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm glad you acknowledge deliberate misgendering is essentially being a prick.

    There is a difference between being polite and cordial with someone face to face and then saying what you really think on an anonymous forum.


  • #695
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    There is a difference between being polite and cordial with someone face to face and then saying what you really think on an anonymous forum.

    Like you know as wibbs put it you can be a prick about it online basically

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #696
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Like you know as wibbs put it you can be a prick about it online basically

    In your opinion it is prickish. You take the moral high ground. Pour out compassion so everyone else can’t make a point because we are all pricks.


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  • #697
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    In your opinion it is prickish. You take the moral hugh ground. Pour out compassion so everyone else can’t make a point because we are all pricks.

    In Wibbs opinion.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #698
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    In Wibbs opinion.

    In a hypotethical siutiiation of him being face to face with the customer.


  • #699
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm glad you acknowledge deliberate misgendering is essentially being a prick.
    No, it's unmannerly. Maybe you aren't quite up to speed with the difference. Society may decide to circumscribe how I may act, and that's fine, but I take a dim view when the same society - and a small minority at that - decide how I should think.
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    In Wibbs opinion.
    You ---- country mile ---- point. But, hey whatever floats your particular boat.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #700
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,337 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    Apparently he had an agreement with a sister hair dressers not to give women cheap haircuts as it would take business off them.

    Not to give women cheap haircuts or not to give women haircuts at all? Bottom line to me seems to be that since it’s illegal to refuse to provide a person with a service because they are a certain gender he should have done his job, regardless of any bullish!t gender issue. Agreements like that between businesses are asking for trouble. I’d be skeptical that they had anything in the business lease that says they can’t cut women’s hair as I’m fairly sure that wouldn’t be legal. The barber in question was quite capable of providing the requested haircut so he should have just got on with it. How dumb do you have to be in this day and age to refuse to serve someone because of their gender?


  • #701
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Have to say the agreement the barbers had with the hairdressers is most odd. Surely that also must breach several anti discrimination and anti competition laws.

    As an aside, Dublin is having a Trans Pride March on Saturday. I'm not gonna lie, I am wondering what sort of a reaction that is going to get both on the streets and online.


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  • #702
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,687 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I think the fine was a bit much. 5K is a lot of haircuts.


  • #703
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    P_1 wrote: »
    Have to say the agreement the barbers had with the hairdressers is most odd. Surely that also must breach several anti discrimination and anti competition laws.

    As an aside, Dublin is having a Trans Pride March on Saturday. I'm not gonna lie, I am wondering what sort of a reaction that is going to get both on the streets and online.

    Apparently the agreement is something done when both service providers have the same landlord. If both are competing with each other one may go out of business and landlord looses rental income.

    It will be interesting alright, i would have thought that it would be covered by pride. One of the things that will determine the reaction is the policy changes they are pushing for it.


  • #704
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    AllForIt wrote: »
    I think the fine was a bit much. 5K is a lot of haircuts.

    especially to a barber...


  • #705
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    P_1 wrote: »
    As an aside, Dublin is having a Trans Pride March on Saturday. I'm not gonna lie, I am wondering what sort of a reaction that is going to get both on the streets and online.

    I'd be interested to know how many actual trans people attend, as opposed to LGBT..., genderqueer, allies, etc.


  • #706
    FurBabyMomma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭FurBabyMomma


    So basically this post started off with most people saying "I don't care what consenting adults do, but leave the children out of it" and has now come full circle to "I don't care what consenting adults do, I get to decide their gender for them based on how I perceive their masculinity/femininity."


  • #707
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    because men and women are looking for a different service.

    In general, sure. But there are exceptions. Plenty of men have long hair that might need more care, and plenty of women have shorter hair that might just need a quick trim, and that's before even mentioning trans people. It makes sense as a general rule, but it seems a bit daft to actually refuse a customer over it.
    You are acting as if it is black and white. Plenty of women cut mens hair all the time, other men prefer to go to a traditional barber as female hairdressers often over rely on sissors and because of the atmosphere in barbers. It is their right too. The real issue is can a person with boobs and a vagina expect to be treated as a man. Of course such people deserve compassion and respect but they are not men. 
    This absurd issue has to be highlighted. Please could a trans woman with a penis and stubble eho is jacked apply as a female under the TD party gender nomination system.


  • #708
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    urBabyMomma wrote: »
    So basically this post started off with most people saying "I don't care what consenting adults do, but leave the children out of it" and has now come full circle to "I don't care what consenting adults do, I get to decide their gender for them based on how I perceive their masculinity/femininity."
    Some ones identiy  is a contract with society at large. If this person had transtioned it literally would have never been an issue.
    Youre also conflating thegender and sex, understandably as its very contradictory.


  • #709
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    FurBabyMomma wrote: »
    So basically this post started off with most people saying "I don't care what consenting adults do, but leave the children out of it" and has now come full circle to "I don't care what consenting adults do, I get to decide their gender for them based on how I perceive their masculinity/femininity."

    Well there was a lot of discussion in the middle...

    But when people on this side of the Atlantic are now getting sued and fined for failing to recognise a woman as a man despite the fact that he’s a biological woman, then we have clearly got to a bit of an impasse..


  • #710
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,029 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    How the hell would the barber know that?

    He made a perfectly reasonable assumption that she is a woman, which she is. Like it or not.

    And it cost the barber 5k. Its lunacy.

    When asked about redress at the hearing, Mr McLoughlin responded that the case ‘was not about money’.

    Didn't leave the money after him/her/whatever though... nice payout for a bit of offence.


  • #711
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    When asked about redress at the hearing, Mr McLoughlin responded that the case ‘was not about money’.

    Didn't leave the money after him/her/whatever though... nice payout for a bit of offence.

    That's what I thought after reading the story.

    Why not donate the money then to a good cause?
    The story has a tinge of the gay cake incident in the North, and seems to be a bit of a setup. McLoughlin couldn't wait to see his/her/whatever solicitor after the event.

    For a very small minority in the country, we certainly do hear a lot about trans offence lately ...... even with all the other offence that's going on.


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  • #712
    Malayalam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    Joe Rogan talks to Debra Soh and the first half hour of podcast is regarding trans children and gender ideology in particular. Soh is very sex positive and accepting but she has serious issues with children being transitioned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zere8WRepGo


    This extract deals with the advantages the Y chromosome gives in contact sports, and the difficulties for girls in sports when it is insisted that there is no difference...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQpQmNhya14


    To Fur Baby Momma, I am concerned only regarding minors in this case. The whole gender queer and trans adult scene and activism is completely outside my arena of interest. It's a whole other topic.


  • #713
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know how many actual trans people attend, as opposed to LGBT..., genderqueer, allies, etc.

    Tbf it is a large umbrella. Like not everyone identifies as trans and not everyone identifies a the gender they were born as. Quite a few people identify within the large spectrum between the two


  • #714
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I can't fault the barber here. He seemed genuinely confused by the situation and felt obliged to honour the agreement with the ladies hairdresser - can't see anything wrong with that.

    McLoughlin looks like a woman, barber took her as such. Again, nothing wrong with that.

    There was no deliberate malice or "transphobia"/discrimination here. The barber (likely the first time he's encountered such a situation) reacted the way most people would IMO in such a situation. The real issue is that he had to pay 5k for a genuine misunderstanding and McLoughlin's hurt feelings.

    Not surprised at the verdict though given Ireland Inc's obsession with being on the bleeding edge of social trends/justice and virtue-signalling long before it became a term (the Irish "need" to be liked/approved of)


  • #715
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    P_1 wrote: »
    ?.................

    As an aside, Dublin is having a Trans Pride March on Saturday. I'm not gonna lie, I am wondering what sort of a reaction that is going to get both on the streets and online.

    Will there now be separate marches for each of the groups on the LGBTIQ spectrum?

    (As a matter of interest, when will the Hetrosexual Pride March take place?)


  • #716
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,029 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Wonder how this issue would go down with men-only golf clubs and ladies-only gyms?


  • #717
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Many decades ago (like early 1800s), legend has it that my 3 x great grandfather had a bit of a wedge to give away.

    He put it in a will or document that said "it goes to my eldest son".

    He never had sons, only my great great nan. The money was lost.

    Like I said, loooong time ago and could easily be bo**ocks but what would stop her saying "I identify today as a man" - getting the cash and going back to crinolines and the vapours the next day ???

    Give that there are still titles etc that pass to male heirs, could a younger sister declare as a man - given nowadays all you need is to say "I'm a man" and you are to some people. No changing of appearance needed - just a few words - and take a title ?


  • #718
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Will there now be separate marches for each of the groups on the LGBTIQ spectrum?

    (As a matter of interest, when will the Hetrosexual Pride March take place?)

    Think of it as the gay couple down the road, they have to have a fire engine permanently stationed outside the house in case of arson.

    You do not.

    Because you don't have this, you're not missing in anything - just be glad you don't need it!

    Same with Pride. No one's ever been beaten up, sacked or murdered for being straight.


  • #719
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Wonder how this issue would go down with men-only golf clubs and ladies-only gyms?

    The former are "evil places of toxic masculinity" and the latter are "spaces where women can freely express themselves without the judgment of men".

    Or so I was told!!!


  • #720
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    P_1 wrote: »
    Quite a few people identify within the large spectrum between the two
    TBH this stuff does my head in with its ever increasing set of meaningless personalised labels. Facebook has over 50 options for gender. And it's all self indulgent identity politics ballsology.

    For me there are three genders: Male, Female, Intersex. Three sexualities: Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual*. Now an individual might want to feel they fit into a particular subjective self described label, but objectively they will fit into those definitions above. Don't feel you fit into such narrow boxes? Fine, but you do.








    *Asexual another possibility, though folks who are asexual tend to fall into the above three existing sexualities and genders, even when they don't want to act on it. I also leave out those sexually attracted to children or animals or objects. They're mental dysfunctions.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #721
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,948 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Give that there are still titles etc that pass to male heirs, could a younger sister declare as a man - given nowadays all you need is to say "I'm a man" and you are to some people. No changing of appearance needed - just a few words - and take a title ?

    Well we don't have titles in this country.

    In the UK where they do have titles, the proposed legislation will allow anyone to self identify as they like, when they like, be that part time or full time. However they drew the line at primogeniture. So the powers that be have decided that you can, to all intents and purposes identify as the opposite sex to the extent that you don't need to have had any surgeries or hormone treatment, and legally you must be treated accordingly, and that it's even illegal to ask or imply that they are anything other than the gender they state.

    Except when it comes to inheriting your Da's title and all that goes with it.


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