Build up to Berlin European Championships

Testosterscone · 25-07-2018 7:33pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Am a bit rusty on the IAAF eligibility rules, but i can't see any obvious reasons why this appeal should be turned down. Surely he meets all the necessary requirements. Regardless of whether its a good or bad thing, if an athlete can run for Northern Ireland, then should it not logically follow that he can run for Ireland? Maybe I'm missing something here though.

Hi Represented UK right through Juvenile and Juniors. The issue was due to the IAAF transfer freeze moreso than the validity of his application should go through but this was a major point during the early stages of Coe's Presidency (the influx of East African's representing European countries etc)

DONTMATTER · 25-07-2018 7:35pm

He'd be competitive in the 200 at European level.

Joe_ Public · 25-07-2018 7:36pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Hi Represented UK right through Juvenile and Juniors. The issue was due to the IAAF transfer freeze moreso than the validity of his application should go through but this was a major point during the early stages of Coe's Presidency (the influx of East African's representing European countries etc)

Oh yeah, I'm aware of the backstory and context. I'm just curious as to what grounds they could refuse the transfer.

Testosterscone · 25-07-2018 7:39pm

DONTMATTER wrote: »

He'd be competitive in the 200 at European level.

Currently ranked 9th fastest in Europe this year and has proven he can run rounds (Commonwealth medal earlier this year)

Testosterscone · 25-07-2018 7:45pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Oh yeah, I'm aware of the backstory and context. I'm just curious as to what grounds they could refuse the transfer.

Criteria here

- a minimum three-year waiting period for athletes wanting to transfer from one country to another
- the establishment of a review panel that will determine the credibility of applications
- evidence that countries are offering full citizenship and associated rights
- the provision that an athlete can transfer only once in their career, and
- that no transfers take place before the age of 20.

Credibility should be fine however one possible (albeit weak) argument against could be residency given he lives in Bath however given all circumstances I think it would be very hard to claim it as a non credible application.

Joe_ Public · 25-07-2018 7:55pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Criteria here

Credibility should be fine however one possible (albeit weak) argument against could be residency given he lives in Bath however given all circumstances I think it would be very hard to claim it as a non credible application.

I suppose if they have a specific residency rule in place that could be one impediment, but still struggling to see it. He's already entitled to an Irish passport so cant be any issue there. Seems a determined young chap, so i imagine if decision tomorrow goes against him, this would go to appeal and, if necessary, to CAS.

Testosterscone · 25-07-2018 8:08pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I suppose if they have a specific residency rule in place that could be one impediment, but still struggling to see it. He's already entitled to an Irish passport so cant be any issue there. Seems a determined young chap, so i imagine if decision tomorrow goes against him, this would go to appeal and, if necessary, to CAS.

Doubt it would come to that to be honest especially when you see cases like Zharnel Hughes as a comparison (though he was transferred due to ineligibilty to run in Olympics)

Chivito550 · 26-07-2018 9:37am

Having a look at the AAI A and B standards here:

The difference between A and B are as follows:

Men:

100m: 0.05
200m: 0.20
400m: 0.70
800m: 0.50
1500m: 1.00

Women:

100m: 0.10
200m: 0.20
400m: 0.90
800m: 0.50
1500m: 3.60

I'd love to know the logic behind the relative difficulty of hitting an A Standard for 400m compared to 200m and 800m. How is there only a 0.50 gap between A and B for 800m, while for a distance which is half the length, the gap is 0.70 for men and 0.90 for women?

Also, why is the A standard for women's 1500m so far ahead of the B, while for men it isn't?

Why is the difference for men's 200m 4 times that of the difference for men's 100m, but for women's it is just twice the difference?

https://athleticsireland.app.box.com/s/a3g7sex2j99surpvrx3lv4wfvezbl7tc

Testosterscone · 26-07-2018 10:04am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Having a look at the AAI A and B standards here:

The difference between A and B are as follows:

Men:

100m: 0.05
200m: 0.20
400m: 0.70
800m: 0.50
1500m: 1.00

Women:

100m: 0.10
200m: 0.20
400m: 0.90
800m: 0.50
1500m: 3.60

I'd love to know the logic behind the relative difficulty of hitting an A Standard for 400m compared to 200m and 800m. How is there only a 0.50 gap between A and B for 800m, while for a distance which is half the length, the gap is 0.70 for men and 0.90 for women?

Also, why is the A standard for women's 1500m so far ahead of the B, while for men it isn't?

Why is the difference for men's 200m 4 times that of the difference for men's 100m, but for women's it is just twice the difference?

https://athleticsireland.app.box.com/s/a3g7sex2j99surpvrx3lv4wfvezbl7tc

Just a guess but the events that have the toughest standard seem to be the ones where European Athletes are currently performing quite well on a World stage

Take a look at the mens ranked by range

400m (Traditionally Borlee's + GB 4x400 team)
200m (Giuliev WC 2017 + Mitchell Blake 4th)
1500m (2017 1/2 the WC finalists were European)
800m (Bosse WC + strong final presence)
100m (Weakest European presence)

Similarly the Womens 1500m looks strongest with the likes of Muir, Hassan, Weightman's performances

Similarly Schippers performance over short sprints making them comparable

Chivito550 · 26-07-2018 10:32am

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just a guess but the events that have the toughest standard seem to be the ones where European Athletes are currently performing quite well on a World stage

Take a look at the mens ranked by range

400m (Traditionally Borlee's + GB 4x400 team)
200m (Giuliev WC 2017 + Mitchell Blake 4th)
1500m (2017 1/2 the WC finalists were European)
800m (Bosse WC + strong final presence)
100m (Weakest European presence)

Similarly the Womens 1500m looks strongest with the likes of Muir, Hassan, Weightman's performances

Similarly Schippers performance over short sprints making them comparable

The A standards are set by AAI though, not by European Athletics. European Athletics only set one standard, which AAI are using as its B standard.

Not sure why AAI would care about the strength of a certain event in Europe when determining their A standards.

Testosterscone · 26-07-2018 10:37am

Chivito550 wrote: »

The A standards are set by AAI though, not by European Athletics. European Athletics only set one standard, which AAI are using as its B standard.

Not sure why AAI would care about the strength of a certain event in Europe when determining their A standards.

Medal/top 8 prospects in said event I would imagine, why else would there be a improved standard in the first place? Imagine AAI derive qualifications from top lists much like IAAF/EAA do

Chivito550 · 26-07-2018 10:49am

Testosterscone wrote: »

Medal/top 8 prospects in said event I would imagine, why else would there be a improved standard in the first place? Imagine AAI derive qualifications from top lists much like IAAF/EAA do

If the A standards are of differing difficulty, then surely the B standards should be of differing difficulty. Yet they are not. They have been kept as the EAA Standard. In some events the difference between A and B is not that significant. In the women's 400m it is a huge margin, that it is far far easier to just run 2 B standards and not need to push on hugely for an A.

Personally, I don't see the need for A and B. It's likely a budget thing, to cut down on costs. I think it is universally agreed that European Championships should be a place for people to gain experience, as well as for those competing for medals, top 8, semi finals etc. The argument has been made in the past that the Olympic Games are not the place to gain experience, which I can see the logic to. But somewhere has to be a place for experience, and the European Championships should be that place, and be open to anyone who hits the EAA standard? It's not like we are a big country with depth and can have the luxury of increasing standards and still filling 3 spots in each event.

It also seems ludicrous to have athletes running around Europe looking for 2 B standards, when they could plan to peak for Berlin having nailed 1 B standard, and hopefully have their second great run when it matters, rather than ending up over the top by the time the championships come around.

In any case, I suspect they could end up relaxing the whole A and B thing again. They'll want Gina Akpe Moses there. Unless they make some rule that anyone on a relay team only needs one B, not two.

Testosterscone · 26-07-2018 10:58am

Chivito550 wrote: »

It also seems ludicrous to have athletes running around Europe looking for 2 B standards, when they could plan to peak for Berlin having nailed 1 B standard, and hopefully have their second great run when it matters, rather than ending up over the top by the time the championships come around.

In any case, I suspect they could end up relaxing the whole A and B thing again. They'll want Gina Akpe Moses there. Unless they make some rule that anyone on a relay team only needs one B, not two.

That was the very same argument people made against the A before the 2b standard rule came in eventually you have to draw a line and I don't necessarily thing that is a bad thing. Yes it is unfortunate for those on the fringe but its not like these standards weren't listed well in advance. Many US athletes often have to go chasing times after the qualify from there trials if they don't have the qualifier prior to finishing top 3 in trials.

Regarding Moses, she will be there she will get the experience of a Senior championships and the team around her, she also had the World Juniors which is to gain experience as well. It would be easy to change the rules for her given she will already be there with no extra expense but that is a convenience move rather than an active change of policy regarding strategy.

Will be interesting to see the Sports Ireland Announcements yesterday and how they will affect things going forward.

Chivito550 · 26-07-2018 11:07am

Testosterscone wrote: »

That was the very same argument people made against the A before the 2b standard rule came in eventually you have to draw a line and I don't necessarily thing that is a bad thing. Yes it is unfortunate for those on the fringe but its not like these standards weren't listed well in advance. Many US athletes often have to go chasing times after the qualify from there trials if they don't have the qualifier prior to finishing top 3 in trials.

Regarding Moses, she will be there she will get the experience of a Senior championships and the team around her, she also had the World Juniors which is to gain experience as well. It would be easy to change the rules for her given she will already be there with no extra expense but that is a convenience move rather than an active change of policy regarding strategy.

Will be interesting to see the Sports Ireland Announcements yesterday and how they will affect things going forward.

I think to for their system to have credibility they are going to have to stick with it. If they do another U-turn like they did with Amsterdam, then they will have to scrap the separate A standards going forward for future European Championships.

Will be interesting to see what they do.

Testosterscone · 30-07-2018 8:13am

TheBigGreen · 30-07-2018 10:13am

Scullion is with Clonliffe Harriers AC ?

youngrun · 30-07-2018 7:51pm

TheBigGreen wrote: »

Scullion is with Clonliffe Harriers AC ?

Yes
He is going well .

Claire Mccarthy out from original mara selection

Good to see Michelle Finn get the standard at Nationals yesterday some determination

footing · 31-07-2018 9:26am

TheBigGreen wrote: »

Scullion is with Clonliffe Harriers AC ?

As is Dara Kerwick. And Breege Connolly is with one of the Derry clubs.

TheBigGreen · 31-07-2018 10:15am

Down as North Belfast AC

footing · 31-07-2018 11:38am

TheBigGreen wrote: »

Down as North Belfast AC

"Kinlough's Breege Connolly has been selected for the European Championships ... Now running for City of Derry Spartans AC," from Leitrim Observer.

Chivito550 · 31-07-2018 5:26pm

Full entry list announced:

http://www.european-athletics.org/mm/Document/EventsMeetings/General/01/28/47/53/ECH2018-FinalEntriesListforWebsite(1)_English.pdf

Only 3 per country can compete in track and field events, but countries can enter up to 5 (I guess to cover possible injuries). GB have 4 down for the women's 1500m for example but only 3 will run. The only instance where 4 can compete for a country is if that country has the defending champion, and if that defending champion is one of the 4.

In the marathon it is maximum 6 per country.

RayCun · 03-08-2018 12:44pm

Leon Reid's transfer of allegiance has been approved

yerwanthere123 · 03-08-2018 1:08pm

Is Thomas Barr our only realistic medal hope? Any chance for Ciara Mageean?

Chivito550 · 03-08-2018 1:22pm

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Is Thomas Barr our only realistic medal hope? Any chance for Ciara Mageean?

Mageean has a shot I think. No Hassan, no Bahta, the third Brit isn't a huge threat. Having said that it will still be an outside shot with Muir, Weightman, the 2 Poles and Klosterhalfen.

Barr is a good shot but he's fighting for silver max, likely bronze.

Reid has a chance too, though he didn't beat Marcus by much at nationals, so it is an outside shot.

fishy21 · 03-08-2018 3:35pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Mageean has a shot I think. No Hassan, no Bahta, the third Brit isn't a huge threat. Having said that it will still be an outside shot with Muir, Weightman, the 2 Poles and Klosterhalfen.

Barr is a good shot but he's fighting for silver max, likely bronze.

Reid has a chance too, though he didn't beat Marcus by much at nationals, so it is an outside shot.

Yeah i agree, Barr needs to run a season best for bronze I think. If Warholm started at 450m he probably would still win. But I see he is doubling up on the flat so hopefully that tires him out.
I couldnt see Mageean doing much damage. A slow race would suit her.
I would love to see Paul Pollock hit his full potential.

Safiri · 05-08-2018 12:31pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Mageean has a shot I think. No Hassan, no Bahta, the third Brit isn't a huge threat. Having said that it will still be an outside shot with Muir, Weightman, the 2 Poles and Klosterhalfen.

Barr is a good shot but he's fighting for silver max, likely bronze.

Reid has a chance too, though he didn't beat Marcus by much at nationals, so it is an outside shot.

Klosterhalfen is running the 5000m instead of the 1500m so it opens up Mageean chances a little more.

DONTMATTER · 06-08-2018 3:37pm

Monday (August 6th) - PM Irish time/ Venue time
Adam McMullen (Crusaders) Long Jump Qualifying 15:35 16:35

Phil Healy (Bandon) 100m Heats 16:45 17:45

Gina Akpe-Moses (Blackrock-Louth) 100m heats 16:45 17:45

Today's action for the Irish. What do people think? If McMullen jumps close to his pb he should make the final and will be close to a bronze if he breaks his pb in the final.
Healy should make the semi final but is the 200 her better bet for a final?
Akpe-Moses should gain some valuable experience but we shouldn't expect too much just yet.

wgtomblin · 06-08-2018 4:55pm

Healy should make semi, but yes... I think that main hopes will lie in in the 200m for a final place.

Akpe-Moses run out of it in Heat 1. Will hope for fastest qualifier place. Looked like Stuy was taken out by sniper.

On a tangent, I applaud the recent move to schedule Euro's for Rowing, Swim, Track Cycling and athletics at around the same time. And plenty of Irish involvement - and couple of medals so far - across the various disciplines.

wgtomblin · 06-08-2018 5:02pm

Healy safely qualified after a relatively poor start. Job done.

Strazdas · 06-08-2018 5:04pm

Unlucky for Gina Akpe Moses to miss out on time, but she has huge potential for the future.

Build up to Berlin European Championships

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