Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Cotts72 · 25-07-2018 10:42AM

More vidal chatter in the papers that hes available for 26-30mill. As he shares the same agent as sanchez they think United have the advantage. Am i right in saying that him and Sanchez dont actually get on though?

brinty · 25-07-2018 10:42AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The teams in Europe have until August 31st. They're in no rush. Expect to see the most frantic English deadline day in years with English clubs paying European clubs way over the odds thanks to the PLs stupid decision to close their window early.

Sorry had totally forgotten that part... yep premier league could be left with a right mess on its face..

Trigger · 25-07-2018 10:45AM

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bangkok · 25-07-2018 10:45AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

"2 signings"? While I think Dalot should be decent long term, he is not going to help close the gap on City at all.

So we've made one signing. A good one, that should boost Pogba too.

But if you think we're closing a 19 point gap by buying Fred.....

I've said I'll judge the window when it closes, but the vibes seem to be we're going to our third or forth choices now, and part of it isn't due to being turned down, it's due to Woody basically not backing the manager.

Id nearly include sanchez as a new signing as he was very poor when he signed and now he has a full pre season behind him.

Also there is no reason why we cant close the gap. The likes of bailly lindelof shaw dalot (who jose rates as the best young rb in europe) pogba sanchez rashford and lukaku all step in up this year there is no reason why we cant challenge city this season

yabadabado · 25-07-2018 10:47AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Duncan Castles (press mouth of Mendes/Mourinho, imo) on his podcast:

Would go along with exactly what I was reading to be the goals for the summer, towards the end of last season. And would go along exactly with how things are looking now.

That makes sense and I'd say the majority of fans would have pinpointed those 5 positions as needing work in the close season.

Bar RW there was/is easily identified players for all those positions and players who it seems are realistic signings.

Hopefully a few signings are made in the next 2 weeks or it will be a long hard slog .

ericzeking · 25-07-2018 10:47AM

Drumpot wrote: »

This “Jose should stop whinging” begs the question what exactly is Jose saying. Shows how fickle things are still getting that people will use whatever crap they can to air their negative bias against a manager if they think the main point is that Jose is just whinging to absolve himself of blame if the team fails.

If he said he is delighted with the squad and doesn’t mind if the club gets more players some fans would complain he’s not addressing deficiencies or he doesn’t care.

I think he’s just being honest and it shines a not so positive light on the club. We have a manager with targets on the pitch (league or champions league success) and owners who have their own agenda that isn’t clear. Other then making massive profits I couldn’t say for certain how committed the owners are to overtaking city or other major euro clubs.

I think a lot of fans have deluded themselves that United’s owners actually give a fk about success. There comes a point when it’s not financially viable to target higher. 1st-4th in league equates to same money. Knockouts if champions league is more then enough cause it’s only potentially an extra 25mil or so if you actually win the trophy. With a turnover of over 700mil that’s pennies.

So then you have “well fans expect success”! Do they? United’s worst period in 3 decades still sees the club as the most valuable in the world. The owners put f**k all into the club and prob made a couple of billion in the process, they literally can’t lose at this stage. They don’t care about success , they just care about doing enough to keep united in the hunt and not lose massive profits from Sponcorship clauses and loss of profits from not being in champions league.

This is why people shouldn’t turn on Jose and defend Woodward. What we know without doubt is that Jose wants to win trophies. He is publically telling the fans of the the owners/Woodward haven’t provided him with the resources to meet his standards.

I also think some fans are easily riled up by rival fans and bollox talk on radio. You do know off the ball and other pundits are effectively barstool fans on radio? So when they say that Jose is a moaner or give any sort of hyperbolic commentary on the club it’s literally no different to the stuff we chat about here?

Take a deep breath and step back. It’s clear Jose wants to succeed at united , even those who don’t like him have to admit that. It’s not clear exactly what limitations or resources the owners are putting towards this success.

All very fair analysis but, if Jose needs even more vast sums to spend on 29 and 30 year olds to succeed while discarding young players who also cost vast sums then that is not necessarily a desirable way for the club to 'succeed', for many fans.
And all the while not playing very adventurously.

Sure anyone could go out and spend it all on the proven big names....what we need is a manager to do his job and coach the players he has, develop them and make them better, make a couple of signings per season and progress. 5 or 6 players every window is a cod.
We have plenty excellent players, Ferguson would not be 19 points behind with this squad, NAP.

His carry on yesterday again is his usual deflection of responsibility.

bangkok · 25-07-2018 10:47AM

brinty wrote: »

right folks, I'm not buying any of this tbh. Woodward has never interfered on the football side of things at all. He knows his place is business and lets the manager do his job. I'll judge things in two weeks when the season has started and the transfer window is closed.

City have bought Mahrez and that's it. Doesn't particularly strengthen or weaken them. They wanted Fred and we got him. They also wanted Alexis and we got him. Liverpool have improved but spent almost 300m on 5/6 in 8 months doing so. Jose has spent 360 in two years signings at least 12 players!! That team will take time to gel together no matter what Klopp does. They had very poor depth but lost some players out too and these signings are replacing Coutinho and Can in Klopp's first choice 11. Arsenal needed a massive overhaul as it is and haven't massively closed the gap on spurs never mind the rest. Chelsea have stagnated by managerial indecision and only got their one signing done based on player following manager. They're still looking at losing multiple top talents in Willian, Hazard and Courtouis and no big name replacements coming in.

Its going to be a busy 16 days for all teams in Europe and England. It only takes a couple of dominoes to fall and it will all kick off. Real will be the big players in everything so until something happens there we all need to relax a little.

City also nearly signed jorginho and he went to chelsea

brinty · 25-07-2018 10:47AM

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Drumpot · 25-07-2018 10:49AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Duncan Castles seems to get a lot of mentions not only from here but around other fan groups.

On the above it's hard for me to judge. Castles bias towards Mourinho is well-known. I find it odd that Mourinho would tell Castles information such as that and be willing to let him quote him on it. Such as not wanting Shaw or Young, and feeling the board don't care about winning the title. So I'm torn on the legitimacy of all that is being said, whether the words of Mourinho or just those of Castles.

There are only two reasons in my mind why a manager would allow comments like that to occur, they eyeing up the door and building foundations for the reasons behind it winning the support of the fans, or are using a freelance journalist as a mouthpiece to get their way, something Castles has before discussed. I can't see the above comments working in his advantage however if true.

brinty wrote: »

right folks, I'm not buying any of this tbh. Woodward has never interfered on the football side of things at all. He knows his place is business and lets the manager do his job. I'll judge things in two weeks when the season has started and the transfer window is closed.

City have bought Mahrez and that's it. Doesn't particularly strengthen or weaken them. They wanted Fred and we got him. They also wanted Alexis and we got him. Liverpool have improved but spent almost 300m on 5/6 in 8 months doing so. Jose has spent 360 in two years signings at least 12 players!! That team will take time to gel together no matter what Klopp does. They had very poor depth but lost some players out too and these signings are replacing Coutinho and Can in Klopp's first choice 11. Arsenal needed a massive overhaul as it is and haven't massively closed the gap on spurs never mind the rest. Chelsea have stagnated by managerial indecision and only got their one signing done based on player following manager. They're still looking at losing multiple top talents in Willian, Hazard and Courtouis and no big name replacements coming in.

Its going to be a busy 16 days for all teams in Europe and England. It only takes a couple of dominoes to fall and it will all kick off. Real will be the big players in everything so until something happens there we all need to relax a little.

Tell you what, please help me understand your confidence in Woodward and the United owners.

Facts: United is the most valuable club in the world. Its value has constantly risen even without winning leagues or qualifying for the champions league. The owners leveraged the club with debt it didn't have before they took ownership. The owners priority is profits , not necessarily success on the pitch with the last 5 years proving that success on pitch isn't vital for the clubs value to rise.

So What evidence do you have that Both Woodward and the board have the same targets and standards that Man City have set ? I mean they are our rivals and the team we want to surpass, so what have they done in the previous 5 seasons in comparison to City to deserve your confidence and support ?

As for Jose, I can say confidently that he wants to win leagues, champions leagues and trophies. I can also say factually that he has gotten that success at every club he has joined. I think its prudent to listen and respect what he says when he publically suggests the owners, who we have absolutely no reason to trust, are not necessarily getting him what he needs to meet his targets.

If a person "trusts" non footballing people like Woodward and the Glazers have a better idea then Jose on what it takes to win leagues then good luck to you.

clubberlang12 · 25-07-2018 10:52AM

Premiership clubs have known about the earlier deadline for the best part of nearly a year i believe.I think they will have informed agents of players in no uncertain terms that should foreign clubs try to pull a fast one and disrupt players to sign them, the selling club will just stick their heels in and say no.

On the earlier point about players not being "manager type" players......of course they are. People only talk about "Man Utd" players because Fergie was there so long and his type of players is associated with being a Man Utd type player. If Pep went to Chelsea, would Chelsea sign "Chelsea type" players or players to fit the managers system and ideals. Klopp has his type players.....not Liverpool type players. And so on and so on at every club.

Mitch Connor · 25-07-2018 10:56AM

bangkok wrote: »

Id nearly include sanchez as a new signing as he was very poor when he signed and now he has a full pre season behind him.

Also there is no reason why we cant close the gap. The likes of bailly lindelof shaw dalot (who jose rates as the best young rb in europe) pogba sanchez rashford and lukaku all step in up this year there is no reason why we cant challenge city this season

While you might nearly include Sanchez, Jose would not (apparently).

The story says he was targeting 5 positions for this summer. Sanchez was signed in January so is not part of that, whether you would count him or not.

As for why we couldn't close the gap, of course we can, but if the manager identifies weaknesses that need to be addresses, and the club refuse to address them, then it certainly doesn't help.

As for Bailly and Lindelof - sure, I would love them to come good. But we also have to consider the possibility that Jose has looked at them week in/week out and decided they are not good enough.

Pep didn't like hart - replaced him with an expensive keeper.
Turned out that keeper wasn't good enough - did Man City say 'No, you signed him now stick with him'. No they didn't. It was identified they needed to try again cause their initial pick didn't work out - and they replaced him with Ederson.

Man City had league winning full backs (who won the league as first choice full backs) and then went out and bought 3 more, and tried to buy a 4th, with 2 of those being world record buys. City trusted their manager that improvements were needed and backed him to get them in.

United are telling Jose that Valencia, Young and Shaw are good enough for him, regardless of what he thinks.

Trigger · 25-07-2018 10:58AM

I personally would count Sanchez as part of the 4 he wished to sign last season, signing Sanchez instead of going back for Perisic in January

Drumpot · 25-07-2018 11:00AM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Premiership clubs have known about the earlier deadline for the best part of nearly a year i believe.I think they will have informed agents of players in no uncertain terms that should foreign clubs try to pull a fast one and disrupt players to sign them, the selling club will just stick their heels in and say no.

On the earlier point about players not being "manager type" players......of course they are. People only talk about "Man Utd" players because Fergie was there so long and his type of players is associated with being a Man Utd type player. If Pep went to Chelsea, would Chelsea sign "Chelsea type" players or players to fit the managers system and ideals. Klopp has his type players.....not Liverpool type players. And so on and so on at every club.

Zlatan was not a Pep Guardiola player . Jose. Hes not perfect but people will selectively choose to use things against him when it suits.

Jose: "I am happy with my squad"
Fans/hyperbloe: "That team finished 19 points behind city, rabble rabble rabble"

Jose: " I feel we need more quality"
Fans/hyperbole: "Jose is already making excuses, rabble rabble rabble"

Jose: "I thought the officials were poor and cost us the game"
Fans/hyperbole: "Jose is already making excuses, rabble rabble rabble"
Ferguson attacks officials - Fans = "Ha, suck it to them Fergie"

Its clear some people didn't and/or don't want or like Jose so they will interpret anything to the default negative. He is not perfect, nobody is saying he is, but he deserves more respect and support then he is getting by some people here presuming the negative on things we don't know for certain.

As I said, I know for certain Jose wants to win trophies for United so I choose to believe he has a greater interest in the first team squad being stronger then Woodward or the owners.

brinty · 25-07-2018 11:00AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Tell you what, please help me understand your confidence in Woodward and the United owners.

Facts: United is the most valuable club in the world. Its value has constantly risen even without winning leagues or qualifying for the champions league. The owners leveraged the club with debt it didn't have before they took ownership. The owners priority is profits , not necessarily success on the pitch with the last 5 years proving that success on pitch isn't vital for the clubs value to rise.

So What evidence do you have that Both Woodward and the board have the same targets and standards that Man City have set ? I mean they are our rivals and the team we want to surpass, so what have they don't in 5 seasons to deserve your confidence and support ?

As for Jose, I can say confidently that he wants to win leagues, champions leagues and trophies. I can also say factually that he has gotten that success at every club he has joined. I think its prudent to listen and respect what he says when he publically suggests the owners, who we have absolutely no reason to trust, are not necessarily getting him what he needs to meet his targets.

If a person "trusts" non footballing people like Woodward and the Glazers have a better idea then Jose on what it takes to win leagues then good luck to you.

I'm not sure what you're going at there mate I said Woodward doesn't involve himself in the football side of things, that's all on Jose. Where have I said I trust Woodward with footballing matters?

You're stating facts and opinions and contradicting yourself in most of what you say...?? are you saying we're aspiring to be City?? Are you David Moyes???

What proof have you the Woodward hasn't gotten Jose what he wants? In his first summer he wanted Zlatan,Bailly, Mkhitaryan and Pogba. Woodward delivered. Last season he wanted another centre back, centre midfielder and striker. Woodward provided. Two players our closest rivals wanted were signed in the last six months. There's two weeks left before the window closes, who says Woodward doesn't deliver what Jose wants again??

Is it then woodward's job to manage the team.. is it fcuk. Jose has been backed and supported and now need's to deliver on things. You can't keep throwing fuel on a fire if you want to quell it...

Adamocovic · 25-07-2018 11:00AM

Drumpot wrote: »

This “Jose should stop whinging” begs the question what exactly is Jose saying. Shows how fickle things are still getting that people will use whatever crap they can to air their negative bias against a manager if they think the main point is that Jose is just whinging to absolve himself of blame if the team fails.

If he said he is delighted with the squad and doesn’t mind if the club gets more players some fans would complain he’s not addressing deficiencies or he doesn’t care.

I think he’s just being honest and it shines a not so positive light on the club. We have a manager with targets on the pitch (league or champions league success) and owners who have their own agenda that isn’t clear. Other then making massive profits I couldn’t say for certain how committed the owners are to overtaking city or other major euro clubs.

I think a lot of fans have deluded themselves that United’s owners actually give a fk about success. There comes a point when it’s not financially viable to target higher. 1st-4th in league equates to same money. Knockouts if champions league is more then enough cause it’s only potentially an extra 25mil or so if you actually win the trophy. With a turnover of over 700mil that’s pennies.

So then you have “well fans expect success”! Do they? United’s worst period in 3 decades still sees the club as the most valuable in the world. The owners put f**k all into the club and prob made a couple of billion in the process, they literally can’t lose at this stage. They don’t care about success , they just care about doing enough to keep united in the hunt and not lose massive profits from Sponcorship clauses and loss of profits from not being in champions league.

This is why people shouldn’t turn on Jose and defend Woodward. What we know without doubt is that Jose wants to win trophies. He is publically telling the fans of the the owners/Woodward haven’t provided him with the resources to meet his standards.

I also think some fans are easily riled up by rival fans and bollox talk on radio. You do know off the ball and other pundits are effectively barstool fans on radio? So when they say that Jose is a moaner or give any sort of hyperbolic commentary on the club it’s literally no different to the stuff we chat about here?

Take a deep breath and step back. It’s clear Jose wants to succeed at united , even those who don’t like him have to admit that. It’s not clear exactly what limitations or resources the owners are putting towards this success.

The reason I imagine why a number of fans are siding against Mourinho like you mentioned above his due to his track record. He has a history of falling out with players and clubs, and a well-documented history of making excuses.

Now I do believe he wants to succeed at United, but can fully believe the argument that he is covering himself in the event of failure.

Mourinho seems to have an effect of dividing fan-bases. Here has been no different. I will say I'm a bit surprised how so many have turned on Woodward and the board, and accused them of, as you say "Putting **** all into the club". I do not agree with that at all.

I'm hopeful that we have a good season but the sort of divide being created within the fanbase of Manager vs Board could lead to a very toxic environment for the season ahead.

Cookiemunster · 25-07-2018 11:02AM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Premiership clubs have known about the earlier deadline for the best part of nearly a year i believe.I think they will have informed agents of players in no uncertain terms that should foreign clubs try to pull a fast one and disrupt players to sign them, the selling club will just stick their heels in and say no.

.

Knowing when the old deadline day was didn't stop clubs panic buying previously. The difference now is that European clubs know that they can hold out until August 9th without lowering their price knowing that they then have 3 week to sign replacements.

bangkok · 25-07-2018 11:03AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

While you might nearly include Sanchez, Jose would not (apparently).

The story says he was targeting 5 positions for this summer. Sanchez was signed in January so is not part of that, whether you would count him or not.

As for why we couldn't close the gap, of course we can, but if the manager identifies weaknesses that need to be addresses, and the club refuse to address them, then it certainly doesn't help.

As for Bailly and Lindelof - sure, I would love them to come good. But we also have to consider the possibility that Jose has looked at them week in/week out and decided they are not good enough.

Pep didn't like hart - replaced him with an expensive keeper.
Turned out that keeper wasn't good enough - did Man City say 'No, you signed him now stick with him'. No they didn't. It was identified they needed to try again cause their initial pick didn't work out - and they replaced him with Ederson.

Man City had league winning full backs (who won the league as first choice full backs) and then went out and bought 3 more, and tried to buy a 4th, with 2 of those being world record buys. City trusted their manager that improvements were needed and backed him to get them in.

United are telling Jose that Valencia, Young and Shaw are good enough for him, regardless of what he thinks.

So he got 2 of 5. If he gets 4 of 5 by the time the window closes he will have done very well, bit he needs to motivate the players he already has and get us playing better football. At the end of the day its not stoke or burnley players he is managing

Drumpot · 25-07-2018 11:08AM

brinty wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're going at there mate I said Woodward doesn't involve himself in the football side of things, that's all on Jose. Where have I said I trust Woodward with footballing matters?

You're stating facts and opinions and contradicting yourself in most of what you say...?? are you saying we're aspiring to be City?? Are you David Moyes???

What proof have you the Woodward hasn't gotten Jose what he wants? In his first summer he wanted Zlatan,Bailly, Mkhitaryan and Pogba. Woodward delivered. Last season he wanted another centre back, centre midfielder and striker. Woodward provided. Two players our closest rivals wanted were signed in the last six months. There's two weeks left before the window closes, who says Woodward doesn't deliver what Jose wants again??

Is it then woodward's job to manage the team.. is it fcuk. Jose has been backed and supported and now need's to deliver on things. You can't keep throwing fuel on a fire if you want to quell it...

I don't know if I am reading you right Brinty, I don't get the Moyes comment.

Woodward is the connection between the owners and the running of the club. This includes hiring firing and selling players/managers. This will determine the quality that the first team has to challenge for honour's. A manager can only work within the parameters his backers provide.

City are the top team in England right now, how is wanting to surpass them warrant a mention of David Moyes ? I don't get the mention of him at all to be honest.

What has Woodward and the owners done to give you confidence that they want United to overtake City ? That they want to win the league ? Who are you comparing the club to ? How are you concluding that they want United to win leagues and champions league ? What benchmark or variables are you using to come to this deduction ?

deaddonkey15 · 25-07-2018 11:09AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Zlatan was not a Pep Guardiola player . Jose. Hes not perfect but people will selectively choose to use things against him when it suits.

Jose: "I am happy with my squad"
Fans/hyperbloe: "That team finished 19 points behind city, rabble rabble rabble"

Jose: " I feel we need more quality"
Fans/hyperbole: "Jose is already making excuses, rabble rabble rabble"

Jose: "I thought the officials were poor and cost us the game"
Fans/hyperbole: "Jose is already making excuses, rabble rabble rabble"
Ferguson attacks officials - Fans = "Ha, suck it to them Fergie"

Its clear some people didn't and/or don't want or like Jose so they will interpret anything to the default negative. He is not perfect, nobody is saying he is, but he deserves more respect and support then he is getting by some people here presuming the negative on things we don't know for certain.

As I said, I know for certain Jose wants to win trophies for United so I choose to believe he has a greater interest in the first team squad being stronger then Woodward or the owners.

Like yourself.

pjohnson · 25-07-2018 11:09AM

So its our turn to be the "new arsenal" of the last few years. Top 4 and happy out. No more required. Jose should walk if thats the shíte hes dealing with.

Drumpot · 25-07-2018 11:12AM

bangkok wrote: »

So he got 2 of 5. If he gets 4 of 5 by the time the window closes he will have done very well, bit he needs to motivate the players he already has and get us playing better football. At the end of the day its not stoke or burnley players he is managing

Why is a club that supposedly wants to surpass City getting the manager less then his entire shopping list when Pep seems to get everything he wants ?

No perisic last year . . And people are happy to say "ah well he got most of what he wanted" but then complain about the lack of width in the team. That was all Woodward..

This year, all clubs knew the same story. Jose had targets, wanted certain players offloaded and now people will expect the same results as Pep when Jose is putting up with some amount of resistance and possible negligence by Woodard.

We cant expect Pep like results with less resources put into the team and less competency at discarding players the manager doesn't want.

brinty · 25-07-2018 11:18AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Tell you what, please help me understand your confidence in Woodward and the United owners.

Facts: United is the most valuable club in the world. Its value has constantly risen even without winning leagues or qualifying for the champions league. The owners leveraged the club with debt it didn't have before they took ownership. The owners priority is profits , not necessarily success on the pitch with the last 5 years proving that success on pitch isn't vital for the clubs value to rise.

So What evidence do you have that Both Woodward and the board have the same targets and standards that Man City have set ? I mean they are our rivals and the team we want to surpass, so what have they done in the previous 5 seasons in comparison to City to deserve your confidence and support ?

As for Jose, I can say confidently that he wants to win leagues, champions leagues and trophies. I can also say factually that he has gotten that success at every club he has joined. I think its prudent to listen and respect what he says when he publically suggests the owners, who we have absolutely no reason to trust, are not necessarily getting him what he needs to meet his targets.

If a person "trusts" non footballing people like Woodward and the Glazers have a better idea then Jose on what it takes to win leagues then good luck to you.

Drumpot wrote: »

I don't know if I am reading you right Brinty, I don't get the Moyes comment.

Woodward is the connection between the owners and the running of the club. This includes hiring firing and selling players/managers. This will determine the quality that the first team has to challenge for honour's. A manager can only work within the parameters his backers provide.

City are the top team in England right now, how is wanting to surpass them warrant a mention of David Moyes ? I don't get the mention of him at all to be honest.

What has Woodward and the owners done to give you confidence that they want United to overtake City ? That they want to win the league ? Who are you comparing the club to ? How are you concluding that they want United to win leagues and champions league ? What benchmark or variables are you using to come to this deduction ?

Re Moyes comment :
Highlighted in your original post.. we want to surpass city.. cry me a river.. 5 years and a billion pounds and suddenly their the benchmark...

We've seen this all before - Blackburn in the 90's, where are they now, Chelsea in the mid noughties and who are really on the slide now.... now its city.... We've stood up to them all and it might take a couple of years but we've regained supremacy.

Everything is cyclical and we're in a bad period right now, but to suggest we need to surpass City who are one of the biggest failures ever given their outlay... don't make me laugh... a couple of leagues, never retained and no impact in the champions league

You're saying everyone has a moan about Mourinho and having his excuses ready... Pep lasted 4 years at Barca and the pressure got to him and he walked away... The pressure got to him in his first year in England, he moaned and whinged and did so last year too, when everything was going right...

Jose might be readying his excuses but watch Pep do the same when cracks show in City.. City managers have been backed to the hilt and yet they've been gone in no time too.. The same fate could befall Pep too..

Drumpot · 25-07-2018 11:21AM

brinty wrote: »

Re Moyes comment :
Highlighted in your original post.. we want to surpass city.. cry me a river.. 5 years and a billion pounds and suddenly their the benchmark...

We've seen this all before - Blackburn in the 90's, where are they now, Chelsea in the mid noughties and who are really on the slide now.... now its city.... We've stood up to them all and it might take a couple of years but we've regained supremacy.

Everything is cyclical and we're in a bad period right now, but to suggest we need to surpass City who are one of the biggest failures ever given their outlay... don't make me laugh... a couple of leagues, never retained and no impact in the champions league

You're saying everyone has a moan about Mourinho and having his excuses ready... Pep lasted 4 years at Barca and the pressure got to him and he walked away... The pressure got to him in his first year in England, he moaned and whinged and did so last year too, when everything was going right...

Jose might be readying his excuses but watch Pep do the same when cracks show in City.. City managers have been backed to the hilt and yet they've been gone in no time too.. The same fate could befall Pep too..

Since you keep skirting around the main point I will ask again, What have the owners/Woodward done to give you confidence that they want to be the top club in England on the pitch?

brinty · 25-07-2018 11:27AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Why is a club that supposedly wants to surpass City getting the manager less then his entire shopping list when Pep seems to get everything he wants ?

No perisic last year . . And people are happy to say "ah well he got most of what he wanted" but then complain about the lack of width in the team. That was all Woodward..

This year, all clubs knew the same story. Jose had targets, wanted certain players offloaded and now people will expect the same results as Pep when Jose is putting up with some amount of resistance and possible negligence by Woodard.

We cant expect Pep like results with less resources put into the team and less competency at discarding players the manager doesn't want.

Did Pep get sanchez and fred... no
where are they...
So city don't get Pep everything they want

Inter priced us out of Perisic but we got Sanchez in January instead.. is woodward deserving of no credit there

Did we sell on Blind? are we trying to sell Darmian? JOse has changed his mind multiple times on Shaw and Martial. Who else are we trying to offload.

Have clubs been willing to pay a price the club deems acceptable for the players. Because sure as heck that'll be used on woodward if he sells players for below what people deem an acceptable fee...

brinty · 25-07-2018 11:29AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Since you keep skirting around the main point I will ask again, What have the owners/Woodward done to give you confidence that they want to be the top club in England on the pitch?

Backed jose with signings. Gave him every facility he needs. Got him staff around him that he wants. Improved our scouting network. Improved our youth structure. Provided the best medical facilities in the country.

Are you saying its there job to deliver success on the field too cos i'm pretty sure that's on Jose as manager.

Drumpot · 25-07-2018 11:30AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

The reason I imagine why a number of fans are siding against Mourinho like you mentioned above his due to his track record. He has a history of falling out with players and clubs, and a well-documented history of making excuses.

Now I do believe he wants to succeed at United, but can fully believe the argument that he is covering himself in the event of failure.

Mourinho seems to have an effect of dividing fan-bases. Here has been no different. I will say I'm a bit surprised how so many have turned on Woodward and the board, and accused them of, as you say "Putting **** all into the club". I do not agree with that at all.

I'm hopeful that we have a good season but the sort of divide being created within the fanbase of Manager vs Board could lead to a very toxic environment for the season ahead.

I still cant understand why anybody sides with the board. What have they done, Post Ferguson, to deserve to be trusted that they are doing everything they cant to get united back to the top of the league/CL ?

What exactly are people using to determine that its fairly clear they want the club to be the best in the world ? What examples or evidence are we seeing that the club, the most valuable in the world, is doing the most it can to get the team on the pitch back to the top ?

Jose - Won either Leagues and/or Champions leagues at every club he has managed and is one of the most successful managers of his generation

Woodward/Glazers - Made hundreds of millions out of the club by leveraging the club that could of bankrupt it and have superbly marketed United

So who do I trust/support for on field requirements. . Let me see . .

Trigger · 25-07-2018 11:30AM

Hang on a sec Brinty, are you suggesting that we shouldnt look to surpass City?

threein99 · 25-07-2018 11:33AM

brinty wrote: »

Backed jose with signings. Gave him every facility he needs. Got him staff around him that he wants. Improved our scouting network. Improved our youth structure. Provided the best medical facilities in the country.

Are you saying its there job to deliver success on the field too cos i'm pretty sure that's on Jose as manager.

What evidence do you have of any of that ?

1. I'd imagine our facilities were top class before Jose joined.
2. Jose brought his own staff
3. Improved our scouting ? name 3 successful signings since Woodward took over ?
4. As for the medical side see point 1

Woodward is a terrible CEO, his last two managerial appointments have been poor (admittedly Jose could still turn it around but looks very bleak), he's wasted millions on ego trip signings, Falcao, Di Maria, Pogba(he needs to perform this season, zero excuses).

The whole club setup is depressing, owners more interested in making money than winning trophies, a CEO who knows nothing about the game. A manager who sounds like he would rather be anywhere else.

Can we get the Green and Gold campaign going again ?

brinty · 25-07-2018 11:35AM

astradave wrote: »

Hang on a sec Brinty, are you suggesting that we shouldnt look to surpass City?

No i'm saying City should aim to emulate our sustained success which they haven't done as yet. They've thrown limitless cash and resources at it but are nowhere close to be where they should be.

This whole we should aim to surpass city. What a small minded attitude. Moyes said that with us as league champions after beating city.

yes they're better than us on the pitch now.. but lets see them sustain it over the years and then we can talk about trying to surpass them after they've won multiple leagues and champions leagues but until that day comes they'll always be in our shadow.

Drumpot · 25-07-2018 11:38AM

brinty wrote: »

Backed jose with signings. Gave him every facility he needs. Got him staff around him that he wants. Improved our scouting network. Improved our youth structure. Provided the best medical facilities in the country.

Are you saying its there job to deliver success on the field too cos i'm pretty sure that's on Jose as manager.

That's such a vague explanation that could probably be used for most managers in the Premier league. You might aswell say "that would be an ecumenical matter".

I don't know how mentioning Blackburn/Chelsea or anything that happened in SAF years is relevant. He's gone and the club has been struggling since then when the owners had to actually take the reigns and make calls that have massive effects on the first team. I am talking about why you feel the club has clearly shown that its targeting league success.

So what success do you expect ? Do you expect United to finish 1st in the league ? If so why ? Why should united finish above City ?

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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