Irish Citizen using a non Irish Passport

Caranica · 10-07-2018 11:34PM

splinter65 wrote: »

No it didn’t.
You arrive in Ireland in possession of a valid in date passport issued by a country whose citizens don’t require a visa to enter Ireland. You show your passport and you enter.

He met an agent who read him the riot act. Whether you believe that or not doesn't mean it didn't happen.

GerardKeating · 10-07-2018 11:51PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You should not do it because presenting a non Irish passport is seeking a status that you are not entitled to. It is a false pretense. It is an abuse of the non-Irish passport.

INIS provide a "Stamp 6" visa on foreign passports for dual citizens, whom want to use their "other" passport to enter the country, so it is certinaly not forbidden.

Technically Irish Citizens do not need a passport to enter the country

Trasna1 · 10-07-2018 11:53PM

Bob24 wrote: »

You are entitled to the support of both countries you are a citizen of. Ireland might or might not want to facilitate diplomatic support by a foreign governement to a dual Irish citizen while in the State, but that citizen is definitely benefiting of diplomatic support from their other country of citizenship.

You are not entitled to diplomatic support from Ireland if you have a passport of the country you are in difficulty in. It's a rule not always adhered to, one dual national got support from the DFA when in in trouble in Egypt, despite also being an Egyptian citizen.

Bob24 · 11-07-2018 06:16AM

Trasna1 wrote: »

You are not entitled to diplomatic support from Ireland if you have a passport of the country you are in difficulty in. It's a rule not always adhered to, one dual national got support from the DFA when in in trouble in Egypt, despite also being an Egyptian citizen.

There is no such rule, as your second point illustrates (a rule "not always adhered to" is not a rule, at most it is a policy of some countries but there is no legal basis or global recognition for it).

You are always entitled to diplomatic support from both countries you are a national of regardless of where you are. But as I was saying of course when you are in one of your counties of citizenship you are also answerable for your actions in front of the government of that country, which has no obligation to facilitate diplomatic support your other country might want to provide. This doesn't mean your are not entitled for that support, just than it is not being facilitated and that in parallel of the support you might receive from one country you are also answerable in front of of the authorities of another country as a citizen and they are treating you as such.

Borzoi · 11-07-2018 10:28PM

Under His Eye wrote: »

I am aware the US requires US citizens only to use their US passport to enter the US. Does Ireland have any such rules in place?

Got a link to back that up?

Under His Eye · 11-07-2018 10:33PM

Absolutely. https://uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/u-s-passports/u-s-passport-faqs/u-s-citizenship/

I am a U.S. citizen, but also have a foreign passport. Can I travel to the United States on the foreign passport?

No. U.S. citizens must enter and leave the United States on valid U.S. passports, even if they hold a passport from another country. If your U.S. passport has been lost or stolen, or if it has expired, you must apply to replace it before travelling to the United States.

EdgeCase · 12-07-2018 02:08PM

I know entering the US on a foreign passport can cause some serious issues. A friend of mine became French and, due to tax issues and also just having grown weary of being associated with Donald Trump's nut job politics, she renounced her US citizenship, but obviously her French passport still says

"Lieu de naissance : Texas, les États-Unis d'Amérique / Texas, United States of America" so the border guards invariable question her and ask her why she's not using a US passport. In one case she was more or less called a traitor and given a load of attitude about "throwing away her American citizenship."

Under His Eye · 12-07-2018 02:23PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

I know entering the US on a foreign passport can cause some serious issues. A friend of mine became French and, due to tax issues and also just having grown weary of being associated with Donald Trump's nut job politics, she renounced her US citizenship, but obviously her French passport still says

"Lieu de naissance : Texas, les États-Unis d'Amérique / Texas, United States of America" so the border guards invariable question her and ask her why she's not using a US passport. In one case she was more or less called a traitor and given a load of attitude about "throwing away her American citizenship."

Renounce US Citizenship and you effectively become persona non grata.

EdgeCase · 12-07-2018 03:16PM

Under His Eye wrote: »

Renounce US Citizenship and you effectively become persona non grata.

Which is a tad ridiculous to put it mildly. If they didn't insist on looking for tax returns from people who've nothing to do with the US, they might avoid some of this stuff.

Bob24 · 12-07-2018 04:06PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

In one case she was more or less called a traitor and given a load of attitude about "throwing away her American citizenship."

If this is how it was expressed to her by the border control officer, it’s quite ridiculous indeed.

I know quite a few Chinese people who renounced their citizenship after becoming Irish. And while China doesn’t accept dual-citizenship, as long as your are upfront about it and tell the embassy you have acquired another citizenship, they don’t seem to give people any crap at the border for renouncing their Chinese citizenship. I’ve heard a story of someone having a hard time because they tried to exit China with a Chinese passport and an Irish Stamp 6, and the border guy knew it meant dual citizenship, but it was that person acting stupid. I know quite many others who did things by the books and no one reported being abused at the border.

GSRNBP · 13-07-2018 09:51AM

EdgeCase wrote: »

Which is a tad ridiculous to put it mildly. If they didn't insist on looking for tax returns from people who've nothing to do with the US, they might avoid some of this stuff.

I'm a dual Irish/US citizen and I've been travelling back and forth multiple times a year for over a decade (as an adult tax-payer) and I've literally never once been asked about my tax affairs or had to prove anything in relation to tax.

Under His Eye · 13-07-2018 12:25PM

Do you file a 1040 every year?

Cookie_Monster · 13-07-2018 12:36PM

I've got both an Irish and nz passport but would never use the nz one coming into Ireland or any other eu country. why would you, the queues alone make it pointless. Have travelled into nz on the Irish one though and they don't give a monkeys

Bob24 · 13-07-2018 01:00PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've got both an Irish and nz passport but would never use the nz one coming into Ireland or any other eu country. why would you, the queues alone make it pointless. Have travelled into nz on the Irish one though and they don't give a monkeys

Yeah I guess it's more for holders of other EU citizenships who don't want to carry 2 documents with them when they travel.

I have another EU citizenship and it was especially true before we had passport cards here in Ireland: my other EU ID card would fit in my wallet but the Irish passport wouldn't, so I wasn't using my Irish passport to travel within Europe and hence entering Ireland with my other EU ID card when returning to Ireland.

There could also be circumstances where you need to travel on your other document for legal reasons. For example if you are travelling with a non-EU family member who holds a Stamp 4 EU Fam they get visa free access to the EU but only as long as you are travelling with them as an EU but non Irish citizen (there are exceptions whereby it would be OK to be Irish, but that is the general rule).

But those are really first world problems :-)

XVII · 13-07-2018 01:33PM

If a country officially recognises dual citizenship, you can enter it as a national of another country.
Ireland does recognise it, so it should be possible to enter as national of another country, even if you possess Irish citizenship. This is the definition of dual citizenship basically.

US don't officially recognise it, so that's why you have to enter as US national.

Is this not the way it always was?

Bob24 · 13-07-2018 02:28PM

XVII wrote: »

If a country officially recognises dual citizenship, you can enter it as a national of another country.
Ireland does recognise it, so it should be possible to enter as national of another country, even if you possess Irish citizenship. This is the definition of dual citizenship basically.

US don't officially recognise it, so that's why you have to enter as US national.

Is this not the way it always was?

To my knowledge the US recognise dual citizenship no problem (as opposed to China for exemple which will force you to renounce your Chinese citizenship if you acquired another one). BUT when you enter the country they require that you identify yourself as a US citizen, which is different. I am not sure whether Ireland has a similar requirement but in practice it was never an issue for me to enter with ID documents from another European country (and I would actually be curious to know if their system pointing out to them that I am an Irish citizen when a border control officer scans my other ID document).

Borzoi · 13-07-2018 10:58PM

Under His Eye wrote: »

Absolutely. https://uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/u-s-passports/u-s-passport-faqs/u-s-citizenship/

thanks. thats a rule I've broken on many occasions. without any consequences

Carawaystick · 17-07-2018 12:30AM

yenom wrote: »

There's no problem with it. I know of people who have travelled home on UK passports with an Irish place of birth.

Like Derry?

seagull · 17-07-2018 01:23PM

South Africa accept dual nationality, but the rules state you must enter and exit with your SA passport. My brother hasn't ever bothered getting a SA passport, so he's broken the rules however many times with no issue as yet.

GSRNBP · 23-07-2018 10:10AM

Under His Eye wrote: »

Do you file a 1040 every year?

Yes and a 2555.

GSRNBP · 23-07-2018 10:13AM

Bob24 wrote: »

Yeah I guess it's more for holders of other EU citizenships who don't want to carry 2 documents with them when they travel.

I have another EU citizenship and it was especially true before we had passport cards here in Ireland: my other EU ID card would fit in my wallet but the Irish passport wouldn't, so I wasn't using my Irish passport to travel within Europe and hence entering Ireland with my other EU ID card when returning to Ireland.

There could also be circumstances where you need to travel on your other document for legal reasons. For example if you are travelling with a non-EU family member who holds a Stamp 4 EU Fam they get visa free access to the EU but only as long as you are travelling with them as an EU but non Irish citizen (there are exceptions whereby it would be OK to be Irish, but that is the general rule).

But those are really first world problems :-)

Just to clarify, specifically in relation to the US, you are only required to use your US passport entering into and leaving the USA; i.e. you use it going into the US and you use it leaving the US at the airport, but you are not required to use it entering Ireland. You use your Irish passport entering Ireland and you are then free to leave your US passport in the drawer and use your Irish passport going everywhere else in the world.

Peregrinus · 24-07-2018 02:50AM

GSRNBP wrote: »

I'm a dual Irish/US citizen and I've been travelling back and forth multiple times a year for over a decade (as an adult tax-payer) and I've literally never once been asked about my tax affairs or had to prove anything in relation to tax.

They're not interested at US border control in whether US citizens resident abroad are or are not compliant with their US tax obligations. That doesn't mean, though, that non-residents may not find US tax obligations burdensome, and may renounce their US citizenship in order to simplify their tax affairs.

Peregrinus · 24-07-2018 02:57AM

XVII wrote: »

If a country officially recognises dual citizenship, you can enter it as a national of another country.
Ireland does recognise it, so it should be possible to enter as national of another country, even if you possess Irish citizenship. This is the definition of dual citizenship basically.

US don't officially recognise it, so that's why you have to enter as US national.

Is this not the way it always was?

Ths US does recognise dual nationality, in the sense that they have no objection to US citizens acquiring or holding the citizenship of another country. This is exactly the same as in Ireland.

Neither country, however, likes to afford you any special privileges or treatment on the basis of your other citizenship. As far as US law is concerned, all US citizens are equal and they stand in the same relationship to the US government as one another. Thus being a citizen of Teapotistan as well is, as far as your relations with the US government are concerned, an irrelevance; it won't get you any special treatment from US government agencies. Again, the same is broadly true in Ireland.

The US does have a rule, or at least a policy, requiring US citizens to employ a US passport when entering or leaving the United States. They are indifferent as to what passport their citizens use when entering or leaving other countries; it is none of their business.

Ireland, SFAIK, has no such policy. I am a dual Irish/Australian citizen and I have entered Ireland a number of times on my Australian passport (because I was too disorganised to arrange the renewal of my Irish passport in good time); there was no problem. On at least one occasion my Irish place of birth was noted and, far from upbraiding me for failing to present an Irish passport, the INIS officer welcomed me home.

GSRNBP · 30-07-2018 10:10AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

They're not interested at US border control in whether US citizens resident abroad are or are not compliant with their US tax obligations. That doesn't mean, though, that non-residents may not find US tax obligations burdensome, and may renounce their US citizenship in order to simplify their tax affairs.

Ok, but that's not the conversation that we're having... so?

Peregrinus · 30-07-2018 02:02PM

GSRNBP wrote: »

Ok, but that's not the conversation that we're having... so?

Edgecase in post #40 mentioned a friend who had surrendered US citizen in favour of French citizenship, "for tax reasons" (among others). Nonresident US citizens are liable to US tax, so it's not uncommon for them to renounce US citizenship to avoid this liablity.

You replied in post #44 saying that you had been travelling back and forth multiple times, and had never been asked about your tax affairs.

I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but some boardies might have thought from that that US citizens tax liablities are a particular issue when travelling in and out of the US. They are not. People don't surrender their US citizenship to make travelling easier; they renounce it to avoid a liablity to US income tax which they would otherwise have, regardless of whether they ever travelled.

Renunciation of US citizenship has increased in recent years, since in many countries banks are reluctant to open accounts for US citizens, since this brings them into the net of US moneylaundering regulations, and they don't want the hassle.

Carawaystick · 31-07-2018 11:37PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Renunciation of US citizenship has increased in recent years, since in many countries banks are reluctant to open accounts for US citizens, since this brings them into the net of US moneylaundering regulations, and they don't want the hassle.

How would they know, in the case of dual citizens?

A Work Colleague from Romania told me about (while travelling to Romania from Hungary, before they joined the EU) having to pay a fee because he had his irish passport only, and the arguing in Romanian with the Romanian border guard, who didn't care that a Romanian person was using an non-Romanian passport to enter (as long as they paid)

Peregrinus · 01-08-2018 01:39AM

Carawaystick wrote: »

How would they know, in the case of dual citizens?

They ask.

questionmark? · 02-08-2018 12:09AM

OSI wrote: »

Dual UK/Irish citizen and have both passports and have entered both countries using the others passport without issue countless times.

You don't need a passport to travel between the UK and Ireland. Unless traveling through Dublin I hardly ever show any ID never mind a passport travelling between both countries.

Peregrinus · 02-08-2018 01:40AM

questionmark? wrote: »

You don't need a passport to travel between the UK and Ireland. Unless traveling through Dublin I hardly ever show any ID never mind a passport travelling between both countries.

I think OSI is referring to the situation when he arrives in the UK or Ireland from a third country. He can enter either the UK or Ireland on either a UK or Irish passport - no drama.

Irish Citizen using a non Irish Passport

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