Traveller girl outshines stereotype

Calhoun · 20-07-2018 06:30PM

Well done to her, particularly hard to do in a culture that is very mysogynistic.

Hopefully she goes on and does some good things with it.

Church on Tuesday · 20-07-2018 06:46PM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

A desire to punch downwards usually. If it wasn't Travellers, they'd be angry with some other marginalised group. It's particularly depressing that they feel the need to use a 'good news story' as an excuse to have a go.

Is it not the case that Travellers effectivley marginalise themselves? I mean, they basically refuse to integrate themselves into the wider community and are quite hostile to said community at times. Any help the state or the wider community provides most (not all) throw it back at their faces.

Sure there is a certain stigma attached to members of the Travelling community that actually want a better life for themselves, but it's not as if Travellers are refugees rotting in direct provision centers.

mvl · 20-07-2018 06:59PM

jim salter wrote: »

So, you made a statement:

about:

So the tone of your response implied you knew how many travelers have abandoned their outdated lifestyle and started to live as contributing members of society.

You can name 'a few' who have (some) education and pay tax....out of approx 30,000? Why? To what end?

The fact of the matter is that a large majority of travelers are involved in criminality (which is borne out by the disproportionate statistics from the prison service statistics) and when 'a few' contribute by 'paying tax' we should all give them a pat on the head and say 'well done'? I think not. I say well done to the individual, like I would any other individual that succeeds but to try ingratiate the whole 'ethnic minority' due the achievement of less then 0.001% is either naive or agenda driven...(that is of course, in my opinion)

c'mon guys, CSO has the numbers for 2016 (as I posted these in other thread last week)
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

- 167 Irish Travellers held a third level qualification in 2016, albeit up from 89 in 2011.
- There were 10,653 Travellers in the labour force in 2016 and of these 8,541 were unemployed, giving an unemployment rate of 80.2 per cent. 2,112 persons were at work in 2016.

Situation looks very bad on paper: so they may need more time to improve with current strategy, or the government needs to change strategy.
But the government needs to continue investing in positive action (positive action is a range of measures which can be lawfully taken to encourage and train people from under-represented groups to help them overcome disadvantages in competing with other applicants.)

- Glad to observe the comments quality on this thread, by comparison to other thread where similar subject was brought up.

colm_mcm · 20-07-2018 07:43PM

mvl wrote: »

- There were 10,653 Travellers in the labour force in 2016 and of these 8,541 were unemployed, giving an unemployment rate of 80.2 per cent. 2,112 persons were at work in 2016.

There are approx 30,000 travellers in Ireland though. If there are 10653 in the labour force, how can 8541 be unemployed? Sorry, I’m not up to speed on the terminology - does that mean 10653 are of working age and able to work?

Wheeliebin30 · 20-07-2018 07:53PM

Disadvantaged?

Sick of hearing this.

Everyone has the same opportunities in this country with regard education.

SEPT 23 1989 · 20-07-2018 07:56PM

Unemployment rate of 82%

BarryD2 · 20-07-2018 07:58PM

seamus wrote: »

There are no barriers to getting an education, making an honest living and paying your taxes while living in a caravan where it's legal and reasonable to do so and in a way that respects the local environment and the local populations.

True, but how many live like this in practice?

I'm sympathetic in principle to travellers but many of them do themselves no favours whatsoever.

How to differentiate the genuine among them is the problem.

20-07-2018 08:07PM

seamus wrote:

There are no barriers to getting an education, making an honest living and paying your taxes while living in a caravan where it's legal and reasonable to do so and in a way that respects the local environment and the local populations. And in a way that respects yourself and your community.

But there are many barriers to getting an education for travellers. The biggest obstacle can be the child's family themselves. Father and fathers father didn't go to school. Had no need for it so there's no encouragement for the child to go to school. Now you can blame who you want & the parents are the obvious target here but it's definitely not the child's fault. Therefore there ARE barriers to getting an education. The barrier may be the parents in some cases but barriers there are.

It's not just travellers that have the same barriers. Many settled children with deprived backgrounds suffer in the same way

I wouldn't have spent a second in school if I wasn't encouraged & at times forced to go.

mikeecho · 20-07-2018 08:08PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Unemployment rate of 82%

by choice

r93kaey5p2izun · 20-07-2018 08:19PM

Fair play to this girl. I hope she continues her success. I know several Traveller girls who have gone on to university but not all of them would acknowledge that they are Travellers. I think there's probably many like them.

I grew up with Traveller next door neighbours on both sides and many other Traveller families on my road. They were some of the nicer people in the area. All the girls my age finished school then and went on to work, mostly in childcare. Unfortunately I see a backwards trend among them lately. Nearly all the girls in their teens now have left school early and are doing nothing.

Peatys · 20-07-2018 08:35PM

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Thats the general idea of education

To collect degrees??

Stick at what you're good at I suppose!!

Iwouldinmesack · 20-07-2018 08:36PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Disadvantaged?

Sick of hearing this.

Everyone has the same opportunities in this country with regard education.

Really? Deaf people dont. Cant even get an education in our own language. Instead educated in a spoken language that we cant hear, yet are expected to understand? That not count as a disadvantage to you ?

freshpopcorn · 20-07-2018 08:43PM

I know sometimes people say we all have the same access to education etc.
However if you grow up in a house and education is constantly talked down.
You receive no support/help.
Uniforms/books/etc can be other issues.
A lot of things build up and it's understandable how some people can get lost.
I have heard of kids under the age of twelve being involved in burglaries. It must be very hard for these kids to pull away from activities when they are actively bring encouraged at home.

DavidLyons_ · 20-07-2018 09:27PM

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Disadvantaged?

Sick of hearing this.

Everyone has the same opportunities in this country with regard education.

Really? Deaf people dont. Cant even get an education in our own language. Instead educated in a spoken language that we cant hear, yet are expected to understand? That not count as a disadvantage to you ?

Yes that's really deliberately misinterpreting the point. Wheeliebin30's very valid point is that settled or traveller, everyone has the same opportunities. Deaf settled people and deaf travellers have the same opportunities.

20-07-2018 09:36PM

DavidLyons_ wrote:

Yes that's really deliberately misinterpreting the point. Wheeliebin30's very valid point is that settled or traveller, everyone has the same opportunities. Deaf settled people and deaf travellers have the same opportunities.

That's simply not true. Not all children have the same opportunity for education in Ireland. As I pointed out before a child whose parents don't care if he goes to school or not or maybe kept home to mind the babies does not have the same opportunity as a child with supportive, encouraging parents.

Please explain how both sets of children have the same opportunity?

Iwouldinmesack · 20-07-2018 09:36PM

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Yes that's really deliberately misinterpreting the point. Wheeliebin30's very valid point is that settled or traveller, everyone has the same opportunities. Deaf settled people and deaf travellers have the same opportunities.

Eh not really, we have limited opportunities. You dont know the first thing about the Deaf community irregardless of being a settled person or a traveller if you think that we have the same opportunities as hearing people in this country.

20-07-2018 09:42PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

Unemployment rate of 82%

That 18% must feel pretty ****ty getting labeled with the rest by a large portion of the population

mikemac2 · 20-07-2018 09:43PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Another issue is people like John Connors who continue to play the victim card.

Connors is quite open that he dropped out of school due to peer pressure and most of his age group had already left. It's not unusual, easily understood

then blames the State for everything!

DavidLyons_ · 20-07-2018 09:45PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

DavidLyons_ wrote:

Yes that's really deliberately misinterpreting the point. Wheeliebin30's very valid point is that settled or traveller, everyone has the same opportunities. Deaf settled people and deaf travellers have the same opportunities.

That's simply not true. Not all children have the same opportunity for education in Ireland. As I pointed out before a child whose parents don't care if he goes to school or not or maybe kept home to mind the babies does not have the same opportunity as a child with supportive, encouraging parents.

Please explain how both sets of children have the same opportunity?

What a terrible analogy. The "opportunities" exist for both.

I do agree however that there is a disparity in opportunity between fee paying schools and the rest. But your chances to succeed are still there. You just may find it a little more difficult to achieve the same goals.

The opportunities remain present however.

20-07-2018 10:41PM

DavidLyons_ wrote:

What a terrible analogy. The "opportunities" exist for both.

There are not equal opportunities for all children as far as education is concerned.

There might be equal opportunities for all parents as far as education is concerned but they are totally different things.

Children have no control over their education so they don't have equal opportunities. Blame their parents if you want but you can't claim all children have the same opportunity.

Children with good parents have much better opportunity in education than children with bad parents. Again there is definitely not equal opportunity for kids in education

20-07-2018 11:07PM

sugarman wrote:

Went to school with 2 settled traveller sisters, they both went on to be nurses having studied in Trinity. They had a **** upbringing and wanted nothing more to distance themselves from their own community where the women are treated like objects and dirt. Nothing but respect and admiration for the both of them. The rest of their family didn't make it to junior certs and caused nothing but trouble.

It's really nice to hear about the success stories. Threads on travellers tend to be very negative. It's good to show that not all travellers are the same. Some work very hard, pay taxes and contribute to society

voz es · 20-07-2018 11:19PM

good for her

biko · 20-07-2018 11:43PM

Maybe one day it won't be thread-worthy that a traveller does well in society.

I hope that day comes soon.

Wheeliebin30 · 20-07-2018 11:47PM

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

Really? Deaf people dont. Cant even get an education in our own language. Instead educated in a spoken language that we cant hear, yet are expected to understand? That not count as a disadvantage to you ?

Ok talk about moving the goalposts.

Disabled people are a whioe different conversation.

Are all travelers disabled?

Wheeliebin30 · 20-07-2018 11:48PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know sometimes people say we all have the same access to education etc.
However if you grow up in a house and education is constantly talked down.
You receive no support/help.
Uniforms/books/etc can be other issues.
A lot of things build up and it's understandable how some people can get lost.
I have heard of kids under the age of twelve being involved in burglaries. It must be very hard for these kids to pull away from activities when they are actively bring encouraged at home.

But who’s fault is that??????

Wheeliebin30 · 20-07-2018 11:49PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's simply not true. Not all children have the same opportunity for education in Ireland. As I pointed out before a child whose parents don't care if he goes to school or not or maybe kept home to mind the babies does not have the same opportunity as a child with supportive, encouraging parents.

Please explain how both sets of children have the same opportunity?

So it’s the parents fault not the state or the government???

Yet the government always gets the blame.

keepalive213 · 21-07-2018 12:02AM

Recently a traveller kid in Ballina carried my mums shopping bags from Lidl, down the road to the hospital clinic where my sister had her appointment. He wouldn't take the fiver she offered him.
I do feel for the decent travelling people given a bad name by the degenerates.
Ive always thought the amount of people of traveller descent in Ireland to be underestimated, particularly around the coasts.

StupidLikeAFox · 21-07-2018 12:11AM

sugarman wrote: »

Went to school with 2 settled traveller sisters, they both went on to be nurses having studied in Trinity. They had a **** upbringing and wanted nothing more to distance themselves from their own community where the women are treated like objects and dirt. Nothing but respect and admiration for the both of them. The rest of their family didn't make it to junior certs and caused nothing but trouble.

Contrary to what some people are saying here, it was a lot more difficult for those to girls to go down that path than a settled person

freshpopcorn · 21-07-2018 03:17AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

But who’s fault is that??????

To be honest I don't really know it's sort of a combination but it can be a lot more difficult to break free from such a background than some would lead you to believe.

Iwouldinmesack · 21-07-2018 07:44AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Ok talk about moving the goalposts.

Disabled people are a whioe different conversation.

Are all travelers disabled?

Of course not. Im just saying Deaf people dont have the same opportunities. Also, Deaf people dont consider themselves to be disabled. I think you should read the history of the Deaf community in this State, where they were subjected to segretation, oralism (linguistic suppression, where the use of Irish Sign Language was banned), normalisation, sexual and physical abuse, neglect, poverty etc. The government has recently admitted they are and continue to be a marginalised community.

Traveller girl outshines stereotype

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