Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Minderbinder · 20-07-2018 10:29AM

I think the PL have made a big mistake not pushing back the start date of the season to at least the 17th of August. It’s actually starting earlier than usual and on the back of a later than usual World Cup.

Most of the top players won’t even be playing on opening weekend. Madness.

Backstreet Moyes · 20-07-2018 10:33AM

Rossi IRL wrote: »

O'Connor isn't a left back

I know he started out as lb.

I thinks it's more of a case of he can play anywhere that he gets moved around.

He is great going forward I think he will end up lb or lw

Drumpot · 20-07-2018 10:34AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It comes from....

Mata cutting inside from the right.
Martial/Rashford cutting in from the left.
Sanchez cutting in from the left.

None of the players that start in a wide attacking position offer width, they come inside.

So if it is not the attacking players providing width then it has to be the fullback - and it is clear from attacking patterns that Valencia is used as the wide player on the right

As for Jose signig central players over wide players - maybe that is down to Jose identifying the need to completely change the 11 he started with, but not being able to do it in one go - so starts central, as the spine is the most important part of building a side.

He has, imo, got the Attack and Midfield sorted in this respect. His efforts in defence have so far failed. We need a top CB, and then we need to look wide. RW and full back positions.

Which, are the positions everyone is calling out for.

But Jose traditionally doesn’t rely on full backs to provide width on his teams. Again he wanted perisic last season and Woodward failed. I would question if Jose was desperate for the club to sign Sanchez but that’s what he got. There are plenty of questionable signings that look more about looking like good signings then actually being practical signings needed for the squad/team.

So I don’t think that we need attacking full backs, we need proper wingers, you even identified the issue with the players we have playing out the wings cutting inside.. Jose doesn’t play the same tactics or formation as Guardiola , I think the idea that our full backs have to be capable of attacking is not completely accurate. It’s more a case we don’t have the right balance and people are identifying the wrong area as the issue.

Mitch Connor · 20-07-2018 10:38AM

Drumpot wrote: »

But Jose traditionally doesn’t rely on full backs to provide width on his teams. Again he wanted perisic last season and Woodward failed. I would question if Jose was desperate for the club to sign Sanchez but that’s what he got. There are plenty of questionable signings that look more about looking like good signings then actually being practical signings needed for the squad/team.

So I don’t think that we need attacking full backs, we need proper wingers, you even identified the issue with the players we have playing out the wings cutting inside.. Jose doesn’t play the same tactics or formation as Guardiola , I think the idea that our full backs have to be capable of attacking is not completely accurate. It’s more a case we don’t have the right balance and people are identifying the wrong area as the issue.

But surely to feck we are not going to sell/replace Sanchez and Rashford (and Martial) so the left side is staying as is. Fans would love a proper right sided winger to provide some width - but on the left side we'd be screaming for a left back to do it, cause the attacking options are the left are set.

Ashley Cole was a key signing for his Chelsea side, for example.

Adamocovic · 20-07-2018 10:42AM

The way some people go on about transfers you'd think the players were pieces of furniture or something, devoid of any decision, and shipped off to anyone who meets the market value.

As I've stated here before, we've shown a history of late of brining in players, and some brilliant quality ones too, but every year people freak out during the window. Complaining the deals aren't wrapped up and pointing blame towards the club. Surely we can be a bit more rational here. Just because José picks out a player doesn't mean that A) the club will be willing to sell,

the club will demand a fair price, C) the player will want to join us, D) the agent will move things along smoothly.

Not every transfer is the same, and not all are straightforward. Majority involve many parties, many concerns, and many issues. This isn't FIFA or FM. The club has shown it's effort in the transfer market over last 4-6 years or so, enough so in my eyes for us to take a more rational approach rather than getting frustrated and annoyed during each window regarding complicated business transactions that we know very little about.

If it was a case that we were refusing to spend money and showing no signs of investing in the squad then I would be concerned. People complain about how it's more difficult for us or our board are letting us down, truth be told only Liverpool and Arsenal (1 more transfer than us) have brought in more players than us this window to date. Arsenal going through a rebuilding makes sense, and Liverpool had a deal agreed with Keita last season.

As always I'll wait and see how this window pans out. For me I would like a RW added before the window closes but with 3 weeks to go we will soon find out.

Drumpot · 20-07-2018 10:52AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But surely to feck we are not going to sell/replace Sanchez and Rashford (and Martial) so the left side is staying as is. Fans would love a proper right sided winger to provide some width - but on the left side we'd be screaming for a left back to do it, cause the attacking options are the left are set.

Ashley Cole was a key signing for his Chelsea side, for example.

I think that’s the problem, we won’t sell rashford , Sanchez or Sanchez which is why Sanchez looks more and more like a wasted signing. It also looks like the full back issue you mention is because of squad acquisitions , some of which I don’t think were made by the manager.

If you had a choice of let’s say perisic or a top attacking full back which would you prefer? I know we don’t have to choose between the two but it’s just more annoying that Woodward failed to get perisic now that the FB attacking threat seems to be more important as a result.

Cookiemunster · 20-07-2018 10:57AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Should it really be that hard to sign players very soon after WC?

There is nothing to stop a club negotiating with another club and agent of player during World Cup. An agent would generally know what a player wants so they wouldn’t need to keep checking back with the player. Just line it up so when do they finish World Cup they can get moving on making it happen.

Or do people think that loads of transfers wil happen when players start returning for pre seasons (after extended leave from World Cup) a week or so before the start of the league?!!!

Juve were obviously negotiating with Real during the world cup, but it was still 10 days after Portugal got knocked out before Ronaldo was announced. Him being at the world cup wasn't delaying the deal, and Portugal getting knocked out didn't speed it up.

Those who think that Utd should be signing players immediately just because the world cup is over are delusional. It doesn't work that way. Just look at how long it took to agree the sale of Blind and how long it's taking to sell Darmian.

Giggsy11 · 20-07-2018 11:01AM

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think the PL have made a big mistake not pushing back the start date of the season to at least the 17th of August. It’s actually starting earlier than usual and on the back of a later than usual World Cup.

Most of the top players won’t even be playing on opening weekend. Madness.

Yeah, in a way it was good that transfer rumors are put to bed once the season starts but with world cup, European clubs have good advantage over English clubs. At least in world cup year, they should go back to regular deadline day.

pjohnson · 20-07-2018 11:04AM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think that’s the problem, we won’t sell rashford , Sanchez or Sanchez which is why Sanchez looks more and more like a wasted signing. It also looks like the full back issue you mention is because of squad acquisitions , some of which I don’t think were made by the manager.

If you had a choice of let’s say perisic or a top attacking full back which would you prefer? I know we don’t have to choose between the two but it’s just more annoying that Woodward failed to get perisic now that the FB attacking threat seems to be more important as a result.

We can probably do with a Sanchez less tbh, when ya put it like that.

Rossi IRL · 20-07-2018 11:04AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I know he started out as lb.

I thinks it's more of a case of he can play anywhere that he gets moved around.

He is great going forward I think he will end up lb or lw

Fair enough.

I always thought of him as a RB, CB and midfielder

Lukker- · 20-07-2018 11:07AM

Valencia is the new Ivanovic!

Drumpot · 20-07-2018 11:14AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Juve were obviously negotiating with Real during the world cup, but it was still 10 days after Portugal got knocked out before Ronaldo was announced. Him being at the world cup wasn't delaying the deal, and Portugal getting knocked out didn't speed it up.

Those who think that Utd should be signing players immediately just because the world cup is over are delusional. It doesn't work that way. Just look at how long it took to agree the sale of Blind and how long it's taking to sell Darmian.

I wasn't saying United should be signing anybody quickly. I was just saying I don't see any reason why a player couldn't be signed fairly close after the world cup. I think an argument could be made that there was a marketing timing element to Ronaldo's announcement as opposed to it being drawn out for negotiations. They purposely waited until after the world cup so it would be the top story.

Also, every player but for those playing for the final 4 world cup teams have had plenty of time to negotiate transfers. That wouldn't explain the really sluggish transfer season. . I don't get into the excitement of transfer stuff and as I said I am not overly concerned because I think there is plenty of quality in the team that could see us improve by virtue of individuals improving.

Mitch Connor · 20-07-2018 11:50AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Juve were obviously negotiating with Real during the world cup, but it was still 10 days after Portugal got knocked out before Ronaldo was announced. Him being at the world cup wasn't delaying the deal, and Portugal getting knocked out didn't speed it up.

Those who think that Utd should be signing players immediately just because the world cup is over are delusional. It doesn't work that way. Just look at how long it took to agree the sale of Blind and how long it's taking to sell Darmian.

It was 10 days after the WC he was at Juve - but wasn't the deal confirmed during the WC, day of the Semi-Finals or something like that?

I remember people commenting that it was poor timing from a PR point of view cause the news was getting drowned out by WC coverage.

Mitch Connor · 20-07-2018 11:52AM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think that’s the problem, we won’t sell rashford , Sanchez or Sanchez which is why Sanchez looks more and more like a wasted signing. It also looks like the full back issue you mention is because of squad acquisitions , some of which I don’t think were made by the manager.

If you had a choice of let’s say perisic or a top attacking full back which would you prefer? I know we don’t have to choose between the two but it’s just more annoying that Woodward failed to get perisic now that the FB attacking threat seems to be more important as a result.

I'd go full back - because Perisic doesn't fit (imo).

If we are going for a wide player it needs to be someone comfortbale and experienced playing primarily from the right. A left sided forward, Perisic, just creates even more of a selection issue with Sanchez, Rashford and Martial.

A top quality attacking left full back gives us the width we need from the left, and doesnt create further selection problems further forward.

Lord TSC · 20-07-2018 11:54AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was 10 days after the WC he was at Juve - but wasn't the deal confirmed during the WC, day of the Semi-Finals or something like that?

I remember people commenting that it was poor timing from a PR point of view cause the news was getting drowned out by WC coverage.

I'd not be shocked if Real hoped that would be the case. I'd imagine they realized that when it was going to happen, best get it done asap, like ripping a plaster off.

Giggsy11 · 20-07-2018 11:55AM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think that’s the problem, we won’t sell rashford , Sanchez or Sanchez which is why Sanchez looks more and more like a wasted signing. It also looks like the full back issue you mention is because of squad acquisitions , some of which I don’t think were made by the manager.

If you had a choice of let’s say perisic or a top attacking full back which would you prefer? I know we don’t have to choose between the two but it’s just more annoying that Woodward failed to get perisic now that the FB attacking threat seems to be more important as a result.

I don't know why it's so annoying that we didn't sign Perisic. What we saw in World cup is not how he plays week in week out. Also signing Perisic wouldn't have solved even a single problem, he is a LW and plays as LW, we wanted RW as Martial and Rashford started season well.

Mitch Connor · 20-07-2018 12:02PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I don't know why it's so annoying that we didn't sign Perisic. What we saw in World cup is not how he plays week in week out. Also signing Perisic wouldn't have solved even a single problem, he is a LW and plays as LW, we wanted RW as Martial and Rashford started season well.

I had a sneaking suspicion that Peresic wasn't wanted as a left winger. I remember some comments from Jose at the time indicated he had something different planned. My thought - left wing back.

My assumption:

De Gea
----Bailly--Lindelof--Rojo
Valencia

Perisic
---Matic--Herrera--Pogba

Lukaku-Rash/Mart

Could be looking at the same again? Fred in for Herrera? Rash/Mart out for Sanchez?

Obviously means Lingard out of that starting line up but he could come in for one of the midfield 3 to provide a more attacking trio, or for one of the forwards to make it a bit more defensive, depending on the game

Cookiemunster · 20-07-2018 12:07PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I wasn't saying United should be signing anybody quickly. I was just saying I don't see any reason why a player couldn't be signed fairly close after the world cup. I think an argument could be made that there was a marketing timing element to Ronaldo's announcement as opposed to it being drawn out for negotiations. They purposely waited until after the world cup so it would be the top story.

Also, every player but for those playing for the final 4 world cup teams have had plenty of time to negotiate transfers. That wouldn't explain the really sluggish transfer season. . I don't get into the excitement of transfer stuff and as I said I am not overly concerned because I think there is plenty of quality in the team that could see us improve by virtue of individuals improving.

They announced the transfer on the day of the first semi final.

Giggsy11 · 20-07-2018 12:09PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I had a sneaking suspicion that Peresic wasn't wanted as a left winger. I remember some comments from Jose at the time indicated he had something different planned. My thought - left wing back.

My assumption:
De Gea
----Bailly--Lindelof--Rojo
Valencia
Perisic
---Matic--Herrera--Pogba
Lukaku-Rash/Mart

Could be looking at the same again? Fred in for Herrera? Rash/Mart out for Sanchez?

Obviously means Lingard out of that starting line up but he could come in for one of the midfield 3 to provide a more attacking trio, or for one of the forwards to make it a bit more defensive, depending on the game

Yeah, Jose said as attacker Martial is very good and his fourth target was someone who would have played as wingback.

Don't think we are in for Perisic this season. Apart from Paris United and Tuttosport, no one has reported about it and both papers are not reliable. What Inter wants is not even worth it, they will obviously look for more than 60-70 million for him.

Crimson King · 20-07-2018 12:10PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd go full back - because Perisic doesn't fit (imo).

If we are going for a wide player it needs to be someone comfortbale and experienced playing primarily from the right. A left sided forward, Perisic, just creates even more of a selection issue with Sanchez, Rashford and Martial.

A top quality attacking left full back gives us the width we need from the left, and doesnt create further selection problems further forward.

Why has the speculation for Malcom died down? Was that purely agent driven I wonder?

paulbok · 20-07-2018 12:19PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was 10 days after the WC he was at Juve - but wasn't the deal confirmed during the WC, day of the Semi-Finals or something like that?

I remember people commenting that it was poor timing from a PR point of view cause the news was getting drowned out by WC coverage.

Wasn't a done deal at that point

Adamcp898 · 20-07-2018 12:41PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Obviously means Lingard out of that starting line up but he could come in for one of the midfield 3 to provide a more attacking trio, or for one of the forwards to make it a bit more defensive, depending on the game

The question of Lingard and what his role will be within the squad this season is one I just can't guess with any certainty.

To me, no matter what way I juggle it he just doesn't seem to quite fit naturally anywhere. If we're to go for some version of 433; anytime he played in a 3 man midfield last year like away to Newcastle you couldn't pinpoint what his role exactly was and he constantly looked like he was making someone else's movements. He gave us some highlights during some dark stretches of performances but even some of that was at the height of the "Do Jose and Pogba get along" stories and you couldn't help but feel there was a chance he was being shoehorned into games because we were desperate and it just happened to work for a bit.

Now no matter how he got his chance he still took it, but I still can't see a role for him in any of the ways we're expected to lineup, whether in the midfield or as a forward player. He had a good world cup with England but again that was in another team that can't create chances and if there was a naturally creative player, he wouldn't get a shout at all.

I know it's not realistic to say he won't be near the team this season but I have a slight concern that if the team doesn't perform without him that pressure will grow to put him in even though the possibility that he doesn't fit anywhere means he'd be holding back the development of the team for some short term relief.

Anyway, I'd just be curious as to what other people's opinions are on him and how he could play for us?

yabadabado · 20-07-2018 01:01PM

Can't see anything but a squad place for Lingard with regular appearances off the bench.
He's not good enough to be a starter imo .

Cotts72 · 20-07-2018 01:12PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Can't see anything but a squad place for Lingard with regular appearances off the bench.
He's not good enough to be a starter imo .

Especially when we sign rebic, willian, bale and the turk

Ninthlife · 20-07-2018 01:49PM

Slightly off topic

Now we are closing in on the new season starting is there going to be a Man Utd Boards FPL League again this year??

bangkok · 20-07-2018 02:15PM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

The question of Lingard and what his role will be within the squad this season is one I just can't guess with any certainty.

To me, no matter what way I juggle it he just doesn't seem to quite fit naturally anywhere. If we're to go for some version of 433; anytime he played in a 3 man midfield last year like away to Newcastle you couldn't pinpoint what his role exactly was and he constantly looked like he was making someone else's movements. He gave us some highlights during some dark stretches of performances but even some of that was at the height of the "Do Jose and Pogba get along" stories and you couldn't help but feel there was a chance he was being shoehorned into games because we were desperate and it just happened to work for a bit.

Now no matter how he got his chance he still took it, but I still can't see a role for him in any of the ways we're expected to lineup, whether in the midfield or as a forward player. He had a good world cup with England but again that was in another team that can't create chances and if there was a naturally creative player, he wouldn't get a shout at all.

I know it's not realistic to say he won't be near the team this season but I have a slight concern that if the team doesn't perform without him that pressure will grow to put him in even though the possibility that he doesn't fit anywhere means he'd be holding back the development of the team for some short term relief.

Anyway, I'd just be curious as to what other people's opinions are on him and how he could play for us?

team with lingard in it....

de gea

Valencia

Bailly

Lindelof

Shaw

Fred

Matic

Pobga

Lingard

Sanchez

Lukaku

gives both sanchez and lingard plenty of freedom as well and allows for either rashford or martial to come on and play similar position

jayo26 · 20-07-2018 02:17PM

Usually yermandan does it or does he do it for all boards?

bangkok · 20-07-2018 02:33PM

Valencia confirmed as new club captain

Mitch Connor · 20-07-2018 02:37PM

bangkok wrote: »

Valencia confirmed as new club captain

FFS - the guy who barely talks and was scared of the Number 7.

Solid pro, shouldn't be first choice and shouldn't be captain.

Backstreet Moyes · 20-07-2018 02:42PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Can't see anything but a squad place for Lingard with regular appearances off the bench.
He's not good enough to be a starter imo .

Makes such intelligent runs if he improved his finishing he would be a great player.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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