Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

In my view the redevelopment of Walsh Park or the building of a new Green Field Stadium needs to be made on a sound commercial basis otherwise were are likely to end up with a poor stadium with limited usage potential and a debt that will ultimately be carried by the clubs and their members. .

Putting €6m in to Walsh Park and ending up with a poor stadium makes little or no sense to me, why?

- the purpose of the redeveloped stadium will be to host two home games in a revised championship structure that may or may not survive with very limited gate potential.
- it will not be capable of generating substantial additional income though alternatives such as concerts, weddings or conferences. Planning issues and lack of facilitates will ensure that.
- it will not be big enough to attract lucrative fixtures not involving Waterford
- it will not be attractive enough to attract rental income from other codes such as rugby, soccer or american football etc.
- it will not in itself increase attendances at club finals leading to higher income
- Already every vested interest that sees an opportunity to make a few bob by objecting to planning are queuing up to object
- Other than offices and dressing rooms, which are already in place, there are no additional facilities planned such as Gymnasiums, Treatment rooms, Conference facilities, items that not only can generate income by renting them out but are already costing our County Boards, large annual outlays.

Redveloping Walsh Park may see us through the next 5 years possibly it is not a plan of vision or substance.

Fraher Field will face the same if not more negatives, quite simply Dungarvan and the surrounding hinterland does not have the population mass to make it a viable proposition.

We do not need another 40,000 capacity stadium but a state of the art well constructed 25,000 capacity stadium, properly located with proper facilities and operated on a Commercial basis as a joint venture partnership is a serious proposition.

Its location at Carriganore would open the door to all sorts of possibilities including Wedding and Conference facilities. You could even look at potential accommodation facilities down the road given the proximity and success of the Greenway.

Look at Croke Park, the GAA own it but it is operated by a separate Management Company and very successfully so. Obviously the scale is massively different but the template remains the same just on on a smaller scale,

I know in an ideal world the County Boards and the Clubs would love to have complete ownership and control, but that means that they would also carry all the debt and quite frankly looking at the way our county boards have handled their affairs this year and in the past they are not capable of operating such a commercial venture, so the debt will fall on the clubs.

Wedding and Conferences are regular and serious business and they can generate a steady stream of income that could be supplemented by one or two possible concerts initally and maybe more in the future.

martin Cullen may or may not have been entirely truthful with his revelations, i have no reason to believe he wasn't but he was right on the money about needing a proper Commerical Plan - and i think that this is what need to be examined and debated - not just thrown on the scrap heap for the sake of a quick fix that could prove long-term to be very expensive.

the dream would be a stadium built on the new Quays development like in Cardiff with a large events centre connected

Been to a few stadiums in the UK (Etihad in Manchester and London Stadium) and there a few miles away from Residents and they have large areas outside of it for the fans to have a few drinks etc. Very smart planning and not like we do in Ireland and build stadiums in the middle of residential areas. I understand some Irish stadiums have been there for years and they were redveloped and not relocated

I quite like the new Walsh park proposal but i can see a few things missing from what other people are posting here (Gyms, big conference areas etc). Could shuttle buses work for Carriginore

PTH2009 wrote: »

the dream would be a stadium built on the new Quays development like in Cardiff with a large events centre connected

Been to a few stadiums in the UK (Etihad in Manchester and London Stadium) and there a few miles away from Residents and they have large areas outside of it for the fans to have a few drinks etc. Very smart planning and not like we do in Ireland and build stadiums in the middle of residential areas. I understand some Irish stadiums have been there for years and they were redveloped and not relocated

I quite like the new Walsh park proposal but i can see a few things missing from what other people are posting here (Gyms, big conference areas etc). Could shuttle buses work for Carriginore

They would work well, it would only require 2500, 20-seater shuttles to get everyone out there.

Anyone know when the next county board meeting is???

IanVW wrote: »

Heard today Mattie Kenny was interviewed also

I'd give it to him

2x All Ireland club titles with Cuala and playing a very good brand of hurling. Is highly thought of and very unlucky not to get the Dublin job

PTH2009 wrote: »

IanVW wrote: »

Heard today Mattie Kenny was interviewed also

I'd give it to him

2x All Ireland club titles with Cuala and playing a very good brand of hurling. Is highly thought of and very unlucky not to get the Dublin job

Should have got the Dublin job.
Gilroy must have serious pull in Dublin.  I saw an interview before where he was asked about having no previous hurling experience, he responded and said actually that's incorrect as he had been involved at club level with his daughters u14 camogie team....

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Yea well Fraher Field had Jedward, Bressie and the High Kings all in one day, so there....

And lost our balls on it! Anyway all talk of other venues is great but it isn't happening.

The only thing that is happening is walsh park. No matter who said what or what prrssure is applied, its now Walsh Park or nowhere.

blueflame wrote: »

Thomond Park and Paric ui Caoimh hve very little in terms of historical value but both are very attractive for all sorts of functions including weddings. You would be amazed where people get married and remember my post is about having vision and looking forward not backwards.

Building a 25,000 stadium near a City Centre will never happen - land is to scarce and too costly, planning objections to construction and events are too frequent and costly, all sorts of problems with infrastructure and parking etc.. but "if you build it they will come" Services will develop around any such potential build, it is the nature of developments. Also having it on the outer Ring of the city just off the motor way means ease of access not only for our county but for other counties also. I accept that it is 6km out of the city but if we are expecting people to travel from all over the county the people in the city will surely find a way to get. Look at where the city was 20 years ago!!!

Finally my thought process is not about giving the city a boost, it is about trying to generate and ongoing Revenue stream that would make the stadium in some way self sufficient financially over a period of time and not just heap debt upon clubs

As i said for the outset of my post, all i am looking for is a reasonable and logical discussion and debate rather that rushing into something that is half thought out and has personal agendas.

Good post, but just on the point about building a stadium near the city centre, I believe a suitable site exists at the Waterside. I had a play around with Google Maps and tried to find a city-centre site that would accommodate the footprint of Semple Stadium. The Waterside car park, plus some adjacent industrial units, would appear to have the necessary footprint. Surprisingly, the North Quays didn't - the site was too narrow.

I think it's something that deserves serious consideration. The land use of the entire site is very low value (they don't come much lower value than car parking), and people don't tend to get upset about relocating industrial units in the same way as they would about houses.

Now that the idea is in my head, every time I round the corner by the courthouse, or walk towards the bridge at Johnstown, I imagine a stadium filling up with Déise supporters (or Ed Sheeran fans!). I don't think it's particularly far-fetched either. I'm not talking about a Wembley replica, just something with the convenience and atmosphere of Nowlan Park or Cusack Park in Ennis. Furthermore the site has already been used for Day Tripper.

Any off-duty architects out there? Fancy doing up a quick outline plan in your spare time to see if it would actually work, space-wise?

fricatus wrote: »

Good post, but just on the point about building a stadium near the city centre, I believe a suitable site exists at the Waterside. I had a play around with Google Maps and tried to find a city-centre site that would accommodate the footprint of Semple Stadium. The Waterside car park, plus some adjacent industrial units, would appear to have the necessary footprint. Surprisingly, the North Quays didn't - the site was too narrow.

I think it's something that deserves serious consideration. The land use of the entire site is very low value (they don't come much lower value than car parking), and people don't tend to get upset about relocating industrial units in the same way as they would about houses.

Now that the idea is in my head, every time I round the corner by the courthouse, or walk towards the bridge at Johnstown, I imagine a stadium filling up with Déise supporters (or Ed Sheeran fans!). I don't think it's particularly far-fetched either. I'm not talking about a Wembley replica, just something with the convenience and atmosphere of Nowlan Park or Cusack Park in Ennis. Furthermore the site has already been used for Day Tripper.

Any off-duty architects out there? Fancy doing up a quick outline plan in your spare time to see if it would actually work, space-wise?

You will have the same issues with housing as you have in Walsh Park.

Think of the cost involved you would have to purchase the car park, johnstown business park, majority of houses along south parade (which are not allowed to be knocked) and johns street.

Prime city centre location, you are easily talking a couple of million before you even consider building a stadium

IanVW wrote: »

cul beag wrote: »

Pat Ryan is our new manager apparently.

Find it hard to believe after reading this..
https://www.eveningecho.ie/corksport/Cork-hurling-coach-Pat-Ryan-rules-out-taking-over-from-Kingston-c67bd6fc-d65d-435f-a49a-d5ad1ac13bb4-ds

If you read between the lines there it was more of a case that  job was always going to be Meyler's so he opted out. As coach and selector he was already giving the required commitment, so taking on the managers job wouldn't have been much different really.

fricatus wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this, preferably by someone with some basic knowledge of architecture, plus the appropriate tools/maps, however my "research" shows that no houses would need to be removed, only the car park and some of the Johnstown industrial units.

Sure there would be a cost, probably more than the money that would be got from selling the Walsh Park site, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be mad money. We're not talking midtown Manhattan here. The use that is made of a parcel of land is a good clue to its value. This site is used for car parking and light industrial. If it was actually a prime site, there would be people eyeing it up for commercial or retail investment, and they're not, which leads me to believe that it wouldn't cost crazy money.

I'm no architect myself but looking at google earth it is hard to see a 20-25k stadium fitting there without an effect to the residents, at least taking in back gardens.

The reason why the waterside is only a car park is nothing could be built there for a long time due to pollution in the ground from the gas.

Also the fact to remove the quay car parks the council needs to create an additional 2500 parking spaces in the city. Loosing a car park the size of the waterside would seriously hamper those efforts in removing the quay car parks.

Having said that I do like your idea, similar to Newcastle and st james park (smaller I know).

Although unrealistic as Walsh Park is the only viable venue for the time being.

You could however complete a similair project to your idea in the RSC. Move the running track and build a multi purpose stadium for a fraction of the cost of the waterside. Land already present, involve fai and irfu, short walk from the applemarket/city centre.

Anyhow all our ideas are theoretical and talk, what's happening is Walsh Park and time to roll in behind it and move on

Tom McGlinchey has ended his four year term as manager of the Waterford senior footballers. He has picked out the McGrath Cup win of 2015, last year's narrow defeat to Cork and this year's first championship win since 2011 over Wexford as his highlights. See Tuesday's Waterford News & Star for more....

Dammo wrote: »

I say build a huge stadium somewhere and give Shania Twain the managers job

That don't impress me much.

I'll get my coat...

Anyone more familiar with Ryan care to give a bit of info on him? Haven’t heard of him before, did he play with Cork at any point? What are his strengths or in other words, if what’s said here is to be believed, why would the players have wanted him? Would any of our lads have played under him for colleges or anything like that? What kind of hurling does he play?