Henry Cavill forced to apologize for #metoo comments

DONTMATTER · 15-07-2018 11:18PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course not but we can’t just take them all at their word either.

We'll say out of the thousands of women maybe 100 are lying. We've still got a huge number of cases where women have been assaulted, raped, harassed, it's disgusting and it's not right, is it?

DONTMATTER · 15-07-2018 11:19PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It’s a great thing but when a man is compelled to apologize for speaking the truth then the original point of the whole thing is being lost.

A man having to apologise is a tiny thing compared to women getting raped, abused and harassed no?

The Bishop Basher · 15-07-2018 11:23PM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Do you think all the women who have came forward with their stories are lying?

It's the internet. It's full of crazies and weirdos who can claim anything they want with zero evidence to substantiate their claims.

I don't trust anything or anyone unless I know them personally.

If someone feels that they've been assaulted or raped then they should report it.

Social media is not the place for that.

LLMMLL · 15-07-2018 11:30PM

Rennaws wrote: »

For every woman you expect us to automatically believe, there's a man you expect us to automatically disbelieve.

Um no there’s not.

The vast vast majority of metoo posts did not name anyone. They were of the “last week I was sitting on a bus and a guy started masturbating in front of me” type posts. There is no man that is being disbelieved in these cases.

The Bishop Basher · 15-07-2018 11:33PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Um no there’s not.

The vast vast majority of metoo posts did not name anyone. They were of the “last week I was sitting on a bus and a guy started masturbating in front of me” type posts. There is no man that is being disbelieved in these cases.

If there's a guy **** on a bus notify the driver and call the guards..

Whinging about it on twitter is not how law and order works in this country..

Mokuba · 15-07-2018 11:43PM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

We'll say out of the thousands of women maybe 100 are lying. We've still got a huge number of cases where women have been assaulted, raped, harassed, it's disgusting and it's not right, is it?

How did you work out how many are lying?

Did you ask them? Did you just pick a random number out of the sky?

Embarrassing tripe.

LLMMLL · 16-07-2018 12:00AM

Rennaws wrote: »

If there's a guy **** on a bus notify the driver and call the guards..

Whinging about it on twitter is not how law and order works in this country..

There are other avenues of change apart from law and order.

Either way no man is being disbelieved.

The Bishop Basher · 16-07-2018 12:14AM

LLMMLL wrote: »

There are other avenues of change apart from law and order.

Such as ? How else are we going to start dealing with these rapists ?

LLMMLL wrote: »

Either way no man is being disbelieved.

If no man is being disbelieved then what’s the problem ?

LLMMLL · 16-07-2018 12:33AM

Rennaws wrote: »

Such as ? How else are we going to start dealing with these rapists ?

Who said anything about rapists? Metoo covers a wide range of behaviour.

Metoo promotes an awareness, a cultural change. It encourages people to speak out against ****ty behaviour.

If no man is being disbelieved then what’s the problem ?

I have no idea. You’re the one who said that for every woman who is believed there’s a man who is not believed.

AudreyHepburn · 16-07-2018 07:43AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

We'll say out of the thousands of women maybe 100 are lying. We've still got a huge number of cases where women have been assaulted, raped, harassed, it's disgusting and it's not right, is it?

Where or when did I ever say that it’s right? You’re missing the point completely to be honest.

No it’s not right that women, or anyone for that matter, she be harassed/assaulted but it’s also not right that men should feel afraid to approach us for fear being falsely accused.

There are two sides to this debate and the make side is being being silenced- that’s not right either.

The Bishop Basher · 16-07-2018 07:49AM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Who said anything about rapists? Metoo covers a wide range of behaviour.

It does. It also targets sexual assault and harassment.

We have laws to protect citizens from all of the above.

But you said there are other avenues of change apart from law and order..

I asked you what they are..

So what are they ?

LLMMLL wrote: »

Metoo promotes an awareness, a cultural change. It encourages people to speak out against ****ty behaviour.

I see you've downgraded it now to just sh1tty behaviour.

That's convenient given where our discussion is headed..

Is this downgrade the official line or just yours ?

Or is this all just driven by some anonymous mindless mob mentality on the internet..

LLMMLL wrote: »

I have no idea. You’re the one who said that for every woman who is believed there’s a man who is not believed.

Well this is the problem for me. If there's no man, there's no crime. It's just some anonymous stranger waffling on the internet. I have no idea nor interest whether they're telling the truth or not because it can never be backed up or corroborated.

Come up with an accused, an accuser and an accusation and you've got yourself something we can talk about.

After the trial of course

Galwayguy35 · 16-07-2018 09:21AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

We'll say out of the thousands of women maybe 100 are lying. We've still got a huge number of cases where women have been assaulted, raped, harassed, it's disgusting and it's not right, is it?

No it's not right but it also makes it more difficult for real victims when liars try to ruin a mans life by accusing him of rape.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 10:19AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Where or when did I ever say that it’s right? You’re missing the point completely to be honest.

No it’s not right that women, or anyone for that matter, she be harassed/assaulted but it’s also not right that men should feel afraid to approach us for fear being falsely accused.

There are two sides to this debate and the make side is being being silenced- that’s not right either.

I didn't say you said that.

The only sides to this debate is those being raped/assaulted v those who rape/assault. Why are men getting offended by that?
Shouldn't they be be getting on board the movement as men get raped and assaulted by other men too!
It should be everyone against the rapists and abusers but for some reason some men are seeing attacks on depraved men as being an attack on all men. It's very weird.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 10:22AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not right but it also makes it more difficult for real victims when liars try to ruin a mans life by accusing him of rape.

No, so if we make rape and sexual assault less likely to happen then it will be more difficult for false rape claims to happen. False rape claims don't happen very often anyway but they're only possible because of the huge amount of rape cases.

MonsterCookie · 16-07-2018 10:45AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not right but it also makes it more difficult for real victims when liars try to ruin a mans life by accusing him of rape.

No, so if we make rape and sexual assault less likely to happen then it will be more difficult for false rape claims to happen. False rape claims don't happen very often anyway but they're only possible because of the huge amount of rape cases.

How are you so sure that false claims are rare?

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 10:46AM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

How are you so sure that false claims are rare?

Because they are.

16-07-2018 10:56AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

No, so if we make rape and sexual assault less likely to happen then it will be more difficult for false rape claims to happen. False rape claims don't happen very often anyway but they're only possible because of the huge amount of rape cases.

What huge amount of rape cases? Perhaps compare the amount of Rape in Ireland vs the US, taking into account the population difference... Hell, compare the amount of rape in Belgium vs Ireland. Similar populations. I'd still be interested in you proving this "huge" amount of rape...

And false rape claims are independent of actual rape claims. Unless you can prove that they're connected?

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 11:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What huge amount of rape cases? Perhaps compare the amount of Rape in Ireland vs the US, taking into account the population difference... Hell, compare the amount of rape in Belgium vs Ireland. Similar populations. I'd still be interested in you proving this "huge" amount of rape...

And false rape claims are independent of actual rape claims. Unless you can prove that they're connected?

The metoo campaign is a worldwide one no? Here's some Irish figures:

http://www.thejournal.ie/rape-stats-rise-ireland-3929262-Mar2018/

False rape claims will be far less likely to happen if rape was a rare crime. Simple common sense will tell you that.

MonsterCookie · 16-07-2018 11:01AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

MonsterCookie wrote: »

How are you so sure that false claims are rare?

Because they are.

Ok! And you wonder why not everyone agrees with you.

I was hoping for something a little more evidence based.

FYI the rate of conviction for rape in this country is quite good - for those cases that go to trial that is.

It’s the cases that don’t go to trial that are very difficult to draw conclusions from. I guess for those that are reported, it’s poor evidence and poor chance of conviction that holds them back.

16-07-2018 11:03AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

The metoo campaign is a worldwide one no? Here's some Irish figures:

http://www.thejournal.ie/rape-stats-rise-ireland-3929262-Mar2018/

False rape claims will be far less likely to happen if rape was a rare crime. Simple common sense will tell you that.

Simple common sense will tell you that false rape claims and actual rape claims are separate issues...

And your link is about the rise in rape during that period... not a justification for your claim of huge amount of rape happening.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 11:07AM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Ok! And you wonder why not everyone agrees with you.

I was hoping for something a little more evidence based.

FYI the rate of conviction for rape in this country is quite good - for those cases that go to trial that is.

It’s the cases that don’t go to trial that are very difficult to draw conclusions from. I guess for those that are reported, it’s poor evidence and poor chance of conviction that holds them back.

Well do you have any of this evidence base to state anything different?

This is not just about rape first of all. The movement includes all sorts of harassment. And the amount of cases that don't even get reported is quite high. This is because of fear of not being believed, fear of being called a slut/were asking for it, fear of the rapist not being sent to prison and so on. Legitimate fears.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 11:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Simple common sense will tell you that false rape claims and actual rape claims are separate issues...

And your link is about the rise in rape during that period... not a justification for your claim of huge amount of rape happening.

One is far less likely to happen without the other, they're linked.

Did you not read my post? I said the metoo movement is a worldwide movement. And the article gives figures on rape and other sexual assaults in Ireland.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 11:20AM

Here's a comparison of rapes per 100,000 citizens in many countries.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

Also, research has shown that only between 15-35% of rapes actually get reported.

Galwayguy35 · 16-07-2018 11:21AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

No, so if we make rape and sexual assault less likely to happen then it will be more difficult for false rape claims to happen. False rape claims don't happen very often anyway but they're only possible because of the huge amount of rape cases.

No, false claims are only possible when someone tells lies about an innocent person.

Do you think the person who made the false accusation should be punished for their actions?

I do.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 11:25AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No, false claims are only possible when someone tells lies about an innocent person.

Do you think the person who made the false accusation should be punished for their actions?

I do.

Of course. What that has to do with the thousands of women who've come forward with their stories is beyond me, unless you think they're all false claims.

MonsterCookie · 16-07-2018 11:25AM

Rather than conflate many different issues, let’s just stick with rape and your belief that false claims are rare.

I haven’t made any assertions that I can’t back up, sob I don’t feel any need to provide data or evidence at this point. I have merely asked you to back up your assertion that false rape claims are rare. And you can’t. And I dont think anyone can.

For balance; I think it would be a mistake to ignore metoo. There are plenty of men (and women) that behave badly and cause untold distress for others.

But let’s have a rational discussion on it and avoid sweeping statements.

professore · 16-07-2018 11:27AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

So the thousands upon thousands of women are all to be doubted? It's all just a big conspiracy?

No. Some of them are lying. Some of them are telling the truth. Some are exaggerations. Just like any group online.

Galwayguy35 · 16-07-2018 11:34AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Of course. What that has to do with the thousands of women who've come forward with their stories is beyond me, unless you think they're all false claims.

No I don't think that, but I've noticed you saying that to other posters on this thread as well.

DONTMATTER · 16-07-2018 11:35AM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Rather than conflate many different issues, let’s just stick with rape and your belief that false claims are rare.

I haven’t made any assertions that I can’t back up, sob I don’t feel any need to provide data or evidence at this point. I have merely asked you to back up your assertion that false rape claims are rare. And you can’t. And I dont think anyone can.

For balance; I think it would be a mistake to ignore metoo. There are plenty of men (and women) that behave badly and cause untold distress for others.

But let’s have a rational discussion on it and avoid sweeping statements.

No, metoo is not just about rape. You can't just ignore it.

Studies say between 2-4% are false.
http://kunskapsbanken.nck.uu.se/nckkb/nck/publik/fil/visa/197/different

What sweeping statements? Thousands of women have come out with their stories, they shouldn't be doubted. We have to try to put an end to the behavior of some men, not question women for bringing the topic to all our attention.

Mokuba · 16-07-2018 11:36AM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Of course. What that has to do with the thousands of women who've come forward with their stories is beyond me, unless you think they're all false claims.

If there has been an incident it should be reported to the Gardai. Social media should not be a forum to trial people based on allegation alone.

Why should I believe a stranger purely on the basis of what the they have between their legs? Are women incapable of lying? Should all women be taken at their word with everything they say? Why? What have women done to deserve being above rational thought and scrutiny? Why should women be above the burden of proof?

Herd mentality quite clearly in effect here.

This has been said to you many times during the thread and you have pretty much done the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screamed "LaLaLa I'm not listening".

Henry Cavill forced to apologize for #metoo comments

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