Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-07-2018 12:07PM

20Cent wrote: »

Not obsessed.
Most people have a dry patch love wise during their lives (not me of course). They don't turn it into the world is against them whinge. Peterson is encouraging such self pity (enforced monogamy).
He says that those who really are privileged the white heterosexual male are the real victims while actual oppressed groups haven't anything to complain about and should just shutup.

The “white heterosexual male”? I can think of plenty of oppressed white hetrosexual males, and many in this country.

It’s a bit odd to adopt this American sloganeering and then decry American sloganeering.

Does Peterson really appeal or lead the incel crybabies. I doubt it but i haven’t read all his work.

Pac1Man · 15-07-2018 12:07PM

I find some of his points intriguing but I don't see them being aimed squarely at young men. Most could be attributed to any walk of life. I personally don't find his points difficult to understand but obviously people have different levels of comprehension.

The fact that his theories speak to young men seems to cause a lot of aggravation. That's fascinating. These men are then labelled as incels (in the school shooter context) even though it may not be true and anyone can become involuntarily celibate.

Who knows how many lives he has helped turn around because of his words. Why is that a bad thing whether your agree with him or not?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-07-2018 12:07PM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M

You continue to think you live in the US.

Yer Da sells Avon · 15-07-2018 12:12PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You continue to think you live in the US.

No, what I was doing there was... never mind.

I continue to forget that I'm posting on a forum where jokes fly right over some people's heads.

RandomName2 · 15-07-2018 12:15PM

20Cent wrote: »

One big problem with him is how unclear he is. He just throws things out there without following up on his point. Like women wear make up to look sexually aroused. So what? What point is he making about that.
Then some incel gets it in his head that feminism is the reason he can't get laid and that women are sexually harassing him because they wear makeup.

People hear what they want to hear and the ambiguity suits Peterson because he can claim to have been taken out of context.

The reason why this was a terrible interview was because, when any line of discussion was becoming interesting, Cathy Newman would change the subject. It would revolve around making him look like an extremist, and then if that clearly wasn't going to work, moving onto the next area

CN: You are anti-trans people?
JP: No, just the campaigners, who also happen to be trans.
CN: You say they're authoritarian.
JP: No, just the campaigners.
CN: You say they're like Mao.
JP: Well radical leftist ideologues share his principles.
CN: You're saying that they will kill millions of people.
JP: No, I just said they share his principles.
CN: Mao killed millions of people, isn't that grossly insensitive?
JP: How is it?
CN: You're saying trans activists could lead to the deaths of millions?
JP: No, but the ideologies which guide them are similar to Mao's, which have already lead to the deaths of millions
CN: How are they comparable
JP: Because both are based on group identity
CN: You're just saying these things to be provocative aren't you?
JP: No.
CN: Okay, onto the lobsters

My paraphrasing of 24.00 onwards.

He may well be wrong, but most of his critics, you included, seem uninterested in actually tackling the content. Instead critics seem to be merely sticking labels onto him to signify that people shouldn't listen to him in the first place. There are others who don't even bother with the labeling, and attempt to ban him from speaking, or blow airhorns in theatres where he is debating instead. It is not always the case, but it is usually the case, that people who engage in this sort of behavior are doing so because they could not win their argument by fair means, by recourse to facts and civil discussion.

Cathy Newman was actually on average okay here. She didn't outright say that his opinion didn't matter because he was a cis-gender white man.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-07-2018 12:20PM

JMNolan wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

Will be a bad night for the ladies out in town tonight.

20Cent wrote: »

So many virgin incels hitting the pubs after Peterson gig.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s not waffle. He often talks about transcendent metaphysical substrates. What’s difficult about that? I’m sure all his followers could explain what those things are, right?

In all seriousness, a lot of it is just noise, that ends in telling angry white men who are too socially retarded to get a relationship, that they’re right and everyone else should cop on and watch his YouTube sermons. Then they’d get a girlfriend and things would go back to the good ole days Lol.

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

There's a mad bang of Lynx Africa off that picture.

Is it true that they were practically giving tickets away today (€20, I heard), having priced some of them as high as €196?

On one hand I'm a little disappointed at the hatred of someone solely because they reach out to young men but on the other hand it's good to see how quickly the mask of tolerance falls off some people.

Most amusing. I used the word ‘hatred’ in the LON thread and nobody could understand how anything said could possibly be seen as hatred. I wonder if those same characters will jump in here too. I doubt it.

Is he actually helping people? I’d be shocked if they actually follow what he’s saying. Transcend metaphysical substrate and all that guff.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-07-2018 12:20PM

JMNolan wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

Will be a bad night for the ladies out in town tonight.

20Cent wrote: »

So many virgin incels hitting the pubs after Peterson gig.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s not waffle. He often talks about transcendent metaphysical substrates. What’s difficult about that? I’m sure all his followers could explain what those things are, right?

In all seriousness, a lot of it is just noise, that ends in telling angry white men who are too socially retarded to get a relationship, that they’re right and everyone else should cop on and watch his YouTube sermons. Then they’d get a girlfriend and things would go back to the good ole days Lol.

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

There's a mad bang of Lynx Africa off that picture.

Is it true that they were practically giving tickets away today (€20, I heard), having priced some of them as high as €196?

On one hand I'm a little disappointed at the hatred of someone solely because they reach out to young men but on the other hand it's good to see how quickly the mask of tolerance falls off some people.

Most amusing. I used the word ‘hatred’ in the LON thread and nobody could understand how anything said could possibly be seen as hatred. I wonder if those same characters will jump in here too. I doubt it.

Is he actually helping people? I’d be shocked if they actually follow what he’s saying. Transcend metaphysical substrate and all that guff.

JMNolan · 15-07-2018 12:21PM

Marian Finucane said that Peterson believes women should never have left the kitchen. And this is on the main broadcaster in the country. Complete crazy

The Bishop Basher · 15-07-2018 12:21PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Why are you so obsessed with “incels”. I’m pretty sure incels are not his market. And that that movement doesn’t exist here.

I had to google the term.

I've just added it to my list of red flag words like "cisgender" and "transphobe".

When I hear people using them I know it's usually time to nod, agree and back away slowly..

"That's it from me folks. Kiss your families. Be nice to each other. Don't end up a bitter man like Jordo."

Says Peter Kavanagh as he wraps up one of the most angry, vindictive and bitter rants i've read in quite some time..

mcmoustache · 15-07-2018 12:23PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Cathy Newman was actually on average okay here. She didn't outright say that his opinion didn't matter because he was a cis-gender white man.

Anyone using this term when discussing social issues gets put in my "full of yank shít" box and ignored. That's what was so painful about Kavanaghs tweets. It just sounds so stupid and you just know that to use such language, you have to be filling your head with American identity shíte.

mcmoustache · 15-07-2018 12:29PM

Rennaws wrote: »

I've just added it to my list of red flag words like "cisgender" and "transphobe".

When I hear people using them I know it's usually time to nod, agree and back away slowly..

The language is a dead giveaway. "White males", especially in Ireland is another red flag term. The term "liberals" is another - it's as though the country was being overtaken by gender-fluid, pink-haired communist beta-cucks. Actually, there's another bunch of red-flag terms. ****, did I just red-flag myself?

Pac1Man · 15-07-2018 12:33PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is he actually helping people? I’d be shocked if they actually follow what he’s saying. Transcend metaphysical substrate and all that guff.

Why do you think it is all about the rights of the oppressed that infect social media?

Please look at this video. Someone asked him why they shouldn't commit suicide at one of his seminars.

https://youtu.be/qmKtyeQ9Ikk

mcmoustache · 15-07-2018 12:38PM

michael_night wrote: »

you confirm It also shows that their ideas aren't their own but are instead little more than regurgitated nonsense that they picked up in some shíthole of the internet that sounded clever to them.

As an aside, your second point conjures up images of a large pot containing 18 orange carrots.

Outlaw Pete · 15-07-2018 12:40PM

Wibbs wrote: »

... each bullet point on that leaflet is a fact, backed up by government research and stats. But heaven forbid rather than have a debate about that, even an attempt to question the points, or disprove them with his own stats and facts, his instinctive go to response is to petulantly rip it up to show his "woke" status to his tribe.

Aye and the same people condemning the pamphlet being handed out would no doubt be the first to tell men to get out there and try and raise awareness if they really feel that strongly about the issues cited. Now when they do, it too is ridiculed

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I doubt I'm alone in thinking this Peter Kavanagh fella is a dickhead.

Well, he's incorrect anyway as there is no way it was 99% men in attendance, or anything even close to it, and that he's trying to peddle that narrative tells you all you need you need to know about the fool.

manual_man wrote: »

Anyone attend this evening care to share their experience? I've no interest in Harris but JP tweeted today that he'll be back in Dublin for a 12 Rules tour October 21st i'm interested in going

It was decent enough, would have preferred different topics. There was a chance for Q&A section around half way through but the crowd chose not to have any by way of a cheerometer and so wasn't to be. 3Arena not the best place for such a format either, Bord Gais would work better I think.

Overall though I though I enjoyed it and thought it good value but then we only paid €20 for tickets, not sure I'd feel the same had we paid the original price of €100+.

For any guy that attended last night, seems Rosemary MacCabe is offering money for names of men who attended, so here's a chance to get paid to put your name on a list that you actually want to be on.

https://twitter.com/RosemaryMacCabe/status/1018249683515465735

mcmoustache · 15-07-2018 12:41PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Why do you think it is all about the rights of the oppressed that infect social media?

Please look at this video. Someone asked him why they shouldn't commit suicide at one of his seminars.

https://youtu.be/qmKtyeQ9Ikk

Don't be like the cartoon (robbed from A and A). Nobody appreciates argument by youtube.

20Cent · 15-07-2018 12:49PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

The reason why this was a terrible interview was because, when any line of discussion was becoming interesting, Cathy Newman would change the subject. It would revolve around making him look like an extremist, and then if that clearly wasn't going to work, moving onto the next area

CN: You are anti-trans people?
JP: No, just the campaigners, who also happen to be trans.
CN: You say they're authoritarian.
JP: No, just the campaigners.
CN: You say they're like Mao.
JP: Well radical leftist ideologues share his principles.
CN: You're saying that they will kill millions of people.
JP: No, I just said they share his principles.
CN: Mao killed millions of people, isn't that grossly insensitive?
JP: How is it?
CN: You're saying trans activists could lead to the deaths of millions?
JP: No, but the ideologies which guide them are similar to Mao's, which have already lead to the deaths of millions
CN: How are they comparable
JP: Because both are based on group identity
CN: You're just saying these things to be provocative aren't you?
JP: No.
CN: Okay, onto the lobsters

My paraphrasing of 24.00 onwards.

He may well be wrong, but most of his critics, you included, seem uninterested in actually tackling the content. Instead critics seem to be merely sticking labels onto him to signify that people shouldn't listen to him in the first place. There are others who don't even bother with the labeling, and attempt to ban him from speaking, or blow airhorns in theatres where he is debating instead. It is not always the case, but it is usually the case, that people who engage in this sort of behavior are doing so because they could not win their argument by fair means, by recourse to facts and civil discussion.

Cathy Newman was actually on average okay here. She didn't outright say that his opinion didn't matter because he was a cis-gender white man.

I blame Peterson for that though because he isn't making himself clear and people are forced to try and figure out what he means.

JMNolan · 15-07-2018 12:54PM

I had a look at Rosemary Mac Cabe's twitter. It's amazing how quickly they all turned on Graham Lenihan all the same.

Yer Da sells Avon · 15-07-2018 12:55PM

As a self-confessed beta male cucktard, I'm always intrigued by what those who refer to 'proper men' actually mean. In what way am I, a beta male cucktard, 'improper' when compared with, say, you, a proper alpha-male?

mcmoustache · 15-07-2018 12:56PM

20Cent wrote: »

I blame Peterson for that though because he isn't making himself clear and people are forced to try and figure out what he means.

Like frauds and politicians, I think he wants his followers to get one meaning without that meaning being clear t everyone else.

Pa ElGrande · 15-07-2018 12:57PM

20Cent wrote: »

One big problem with him is how unclear he is. He just throws things out there without following up on his point. Like women wear make up to look sexually aroused. So what? What point is he making about that.

The lipstick question comes up in the context of sexual behaviour in the workplace and what is appropriate behaviour for men and women and how you regulate that.

2 mins 45 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHsWY4moQI

10 mins 20 seconds in - he's asked the question why red? Which is probably where the "researchers" who provide the questions to the interviewers pick their attack from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzD6g_wp76A

And the other part about ripe fruit. . . Eve and the snake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1IDBMtA00

batgoat · 15-07-2018 12:57PM

You planning to rant about betas and cucks next?

Taytoland · 15-07-2018 01:02PM

Leftists always eat themselves because it's simply an unrealistic view on the world. Real life is not how leftists want it. People in the real world don't censor themselves or walk on eggshells like that and follow strict language codes, PC waffle. It's never going to happen for them.

mcmoustache · 15-07-2018 01:06PM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

As a self-confessed beta male cucktard, I'm always intrigued by what those who refer to 'proper men' actually mean. In what way am I, a beta male cucktard, 'improper' when compared with, say, you, a proper alpha-male?

As a bearded gaa playing captain with a well-paying job and a good looking girlfriend, it looks to me that the alphas that they are some kind of evolutionary dead end. A quick look at these people and what they post would suggest that they lack the darwinian fitness to mate. Not everyone if supposed to procreate - they forget that it's a competition and they're finishing last.

Pac1Man · 15-07-2018 01:06PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Don't be like the cartoon (robbed from A and A). Nobody appreciates argument by youtube.

Nobody appreciates an argument that cannot be easily refuted.

Pa ElGrande · 15-07-2018 01:07PM

20Cent wrote: »

I blame Peterson for that though because he isn't making himself clear and people are forced to try and figure out what he means.

In the case of the Cathy Newman interview she is not actually interviewing Jordan Peterson and instead casts him in the role of a villain her ideology says he must be and asks her questions based on that illusion, it is called cognitive dissonance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnyA5Wn1K_Q

Dyr · 15-07-2018 01:11PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

American?

Yeah using a phrase like "Angry white men". You're either American or to borrow a term from someone else in this thread "full of that American identity politics ****e".

Anywhoo the reason the more mental liberals really really hate a buachallike Peterson is that they operate like a liberal taliban.

Now unlike the Taliban they cant keep the general population in line by slitting throats. They have to denounce anyone who doesn't toe their line as omgracistmisoginitytransphbialtrightnaziii which used to mean the victim became a social pariah and lost their job. They tried this with Peterson and he survived and actually benefited from it. Once those cracks appear others will follow (have followed) and these lads know it.

katiemmm · 15-07-2018 01:13PM

So many people overreacting! Need to chill out!!!

Taytoland · 15-07-2018 01:14PM

I actually feel sorry for Newman and others like her. In many ways it is not really her fault, she has been educated to believe all these fallacies about gender pay gap and other such nonsense without thinking about it critically. It has to fit into a narrative and if they step outside it they get into trouble and disowned in many quarters be it work or socially.

CrankyHaus · 15-07-2018 01:31PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

I don't get understand his use of "white male" as a derogatory term. First of all, he was in Ireland where, let's face it, the vast majority of us are very much white. Second of all, it comes across as cringey yank stuff.

It's really strange to focus on in a country like Ireland. It's pointlessly divisive. It's imported yank **** that puts all of us at each other's throats over nonsense and makes the social solidarity required to address serious issues like housing, health and inequality unattainable.

Yer Da sells Avon · 15-07-2018 01:39PM

Would it be fair to say that a 'proper man' is one who subscribes to your ultra orthodox ideological view of the world?

Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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