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Henry Cavill forced to apologize for #metoo comments

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Comments

  • #32
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Don't know who it is and I couldn't give a **** to be honest. The metoo movement was a good thing though.

    Why are you posting on a thread about the guy then? The information is in the original post.


  • #33
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    RayCun wrote: »
    "I used to support X but this shows that X has gone too far" is about the least convincing argument ever. It's amazing that people still try it.

    Why? Things invariably go too far.

    The #metoo movement starts with Weinstein and ends with a guy who has to apologise because he says he’s afraid to flirt.


  • #34
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Why are you posting on a thread about the guy then? The information is in the original post.

    I'm posting about the metoo movement. Have you not read the thread?


  • #35
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    if he approached a woman even politely, he could end up as the next "Me Too".

    He really couldn't.


  • #36
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    I'm posting about the metoo movement. Have you not read the thread?

    The thread is about Henry Cavill and his interview.


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  • #37
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The thread is about Henry Cavill and his interview.

    Maybe you should re-read the thread. Even if you read the title of the thread it will help you out.


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    The amount of women who've been sexually assaulted in Ireland is pretty sickening. The metoo movement exposed this didn't it? Women came forward.

    Exposed it? I dunno about that since I've never noticed any gag order on Irish women, or anything which prevented them from speaking before. The Metoo campaign simply broadened what was considered sexual assault to include just about anything a woman might be offended by.

    It did highlight some actual harassment or assault, but it's message was seriously diminished by the amount of minor crap reported.

    One bigger issue though was the lack of followup. It was simply women stating their experiences and no effort to determine the truth of the claims.


  • #39
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Maybe you should re-read the thread. Even if you read the title of the thread it will help you out.

    The title is exactly why I said what I said. So is the op. So is every other post apart from yours.


  • #40
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Exposed it? I dunno about that since I've never noticed any gag order on Irish women, or anything which prevented them from speaking before. The Metoo campaign simply broadened what was considered sexual assault to include just about anything a woman might be offended by.

    It did highlight some actual harassment or assault, but it's message was seriously diminished by the amount of minor crap reported.

    One bigger issue though was the lack of followup. It was simply women stating their experiences and no effort to determine the truth of the claims.

    It showed how deep it went. How much hassle women have on nights out etc. Obviously the number of sexual assaults and rapes are staggering.


  • #41
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The title is exactly why I said what I said. So is the op. So is every other post apart from yours.

    Can you not see metoo in nearly every post and the title of the thread?


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  • #42
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    How Soon Is Now wrote: »
    He's good looking he won't have any issues.

    That's the thing with these types of women they can turn the bull**** on and off when suits thrm.

    Especially when superman appears.....

    He's good looking and the star in multiple major motion picture series [Superman and Justice League] He is the perfect target for false allegations.

    He shouldn't have apologized. He was dead on.


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    It showed how deep it went. How much hassle women have on nights out etc.

    Women have always received a degree of harassment, and it's been well known. Most guys are raised to be polite and not to harass women (and behave that way)... the minority of men who break the boundaries have been doing so before, and after "metoo".

    Instead, we have a "metoo" movement where some claims were about being harassed because the woman felt harassed because a guy she wasn't attracted to, simply asked her out. There was a wide range of claims of harassment from the serious to the nonsensical.
    Obviously the number of sexual assaults and rapes are staggering.

    Why staggering?

    Both sexual assaults and Rapes should be reported and investigated. Otherwise, they're simply claims and without foundation. Without reporting claims of either rape or assault, then records can't be made, and actual realistic statistics formulated with a clear idea of the real problem.

    Instead, we have thousands of vague claims made anonymously, and not investigated by any official organisation. That doesn't help anybody.


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    He's good looking and the star in multiple major motion picture series [Superman and Justice League] He is the perfect target for false allegations.

    He shouldn't have apologized. He was dead on.

    He apologised because of what happened to Aziz. The internet and social media are very quick to convict someone based on the claims of a woman regardless of any evidence being provided.

    I agree that he shouldn't have apologised, because that just sets a precedent for every other star to be ultra-careful about what they say/do. It's giving more power to the critics.


  • #45
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Women have always received a degree of harassment, and it's been well known. Most guys are raised to be polite and not to harass women (and behave that way)... the minority of men who break the boundaries have been doing so before, and after "metoo".

    Instead, we have a "metoo" movement where some claims were about being harassed because the woman felt harassed because a guy she wasn't attracted to, simply asked her out. There was a wide range of claims of harassment from the serious to the nonsensical.



    Why staggering?

    Both sexual assaults and Rapes should be reported and investigated. Otherwise, they're simply claims and without foundation. Without reporting claims of either rape or assault, then records can't be made, and actual realistic statistics formulated with a clear idea of the real problem.

    Instead, we have thousands of vague claims made anonymously, and not investigated by any official organisation. That doesn't help anybody.

    I think it shows that women are frightened to even report these attacks. And with the knowledge of how difficult it is to get a rape conviction, can you blame them? This is far more worrying than any thing you talked about.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    This must be a very difficult time for this handsome millionaire actor.

    Same for the actresses who claimed to be part of the #metoo movement while strutting down the self-publicity catwalk in their latest designer gear. Slactivism has never been in a healthier state.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    I think it shows that women are frightened to even report these attacks.

    Why are they afraid to report the attacks? We don't live in the 60s anymore. The idea that women won't be believed is ridiculous considering the way society & the law has changed over the last thirty years.

    Edit: In fact, have a look at some of the false rape claims within this year... yup, proven to be false. But consider the lack of evidence involved, and yet, the claims still made it as far as a judge.
    And with the knowledge of how difficult it is to get a rape conviction, can you blame them? This is far more worrying than any thing you talked about.

    And this is why it won't change. If more women come forward, present their cases, and be investigated, then our understanding and ability to process rape claims improves. As each case is investigated and determined as to it's validity, then we can actually determine if the system is flawed against rape claimants.

    Right now, all we have is vague suggestions. Which will do nothing to change anything (for the better anyway... I rather suspect it'll change things for the worse for everyone instead).


  • #48
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are they afraid to report the attacks? We don't live in the 60s anymore. The idea that women won't be believed is ridiculous considering the way society & the law has changed over the last thirty years.



    And this is why it won't change. If more women come forward, present their cases, and be investigated, then our understanding and ability to process rape claims improves. As each case is investigated and determined as to it's validity, then we can actually determine if the system is flawed against rape claimants.

    Right now, all we have is vague suggestions. Which will do nothing to change anything.

    Eh? We already know how hard it is to convict rapists. Women have come forward and their attackers have got a away with it. Women get labelled as sluts and are not believed. They get raped and then humiliated.
    I don't know what vague suggestions you are talking about. Have you ever met rape victims? Do you not know someone who's had to go through the ordeal of a court case?


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Eh? We already know how hard it is to convict rapists. Women have come forward and their attackers have got a away with it. Women get labelled as sluts and are not believed. They get raped and then humiliated.

    Step back, consider what I responded to and what I wrote. You're moving away from it. Although, I'm guessing based on your escalating dramatic posting, that this isn't about having a fair system, but rather that women should be believed regardless of any evidence except their word..
    I don't know what vague suggestions you are talking about. Have you ever met rape victims? Do you not know someone who's had to go through the ordeal of a court case?

    Vague suggestions..... the metoo campaign. Unverified statements.

    And yes, I do know women who had been raped before. Nope, I've never known any woman going through a rape case, although I have known a guy who was accused of raping someone, and thankfully, was found innocent. And although, she was found to have made a false claim, his reputation didn't survive the case.


  • #50
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Step back, consider what I responded to and what I wrote. You're moving away from it. Although, I'm guessing based on your escalating dramatic posting, that this isn't about having a fair system, but rather that women should be believed regardless of any evidence except their word..



    Vague suggestions..... the metoo campaign. Unverified statements.

    And yes, I do know women who had been raped before. Nope, I've never known any woman going through a rape case, although I have known a guy who was accused of raping someone, and thankfully, was found innocent. His reputation didn't survive the case though.

    Basically you look at women telling their stories of being abused and raped but instead of saying, this isn't right, women shouldn't be attacked and abused regularly, you're saying, let's doubt all their stories.
    It's a twisted way of viewing things. Women aren't all liars, the shocking number of stories about women getting attacked, raped, abused isn't just a conspiracy by all women to make men look bad. It's fact, not 100% of it but a very high percentage.
    Isn't that what we should be worried about? Making sure rapists get punished and face justice.


  • #51
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He apologised because of what happened to Aziz. The internet and social media are very quick to convict someone based on the claims of a woman regardless of any evidence being provided.

    I agree that he shouldn't have apologised, because that just sets a precedent for every other star to be ultra-careful about what they say/do. It's giving more power to the critics.

    The problem with apologizing when you shouldn't is that its encouraging this behavior even more.


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Basically you look at women telling their stories of being abused and raped but instead of saying, this isn't right, women shouldn't be attacked and abused regularly, you're saying, let's doubt all their stories.

    Hold on a second. I didn't say any of that. But let's be clear here. Unfounded accusations hurt people, and do nothing to improve the system. In fact, when I suggest that women should be submitting their accusations and be investigated, you become offended.

    You don't like the current system regarding rape cases. So seek to change it. And that change will only happen when women submit their cases of harassment, sexual assault and rape to a legal authority... so that they can be investigated, the matter recorded and entered into statistics, and better research performed, thus leading to changes in the policing & legal systems.
    It's a twisted way of viewing things. Women aren't all liars, the shocking number of stories about women getting attacked, raped, abused isn't just a conspiracy by all women to make men look bad. It's fact, not 100% of it but a very high percentage.

    Yes, it is a twisted way of viewing things, and it's not my way. But it seems you're not willing to engage in a rational conversation on the subject and deal with what I've actually written.
    Isn't that what we should be worried about? Making sure rapists get punished and face justice.

    Providing a fair system where guilt is proven. That's what I am interested in. Gender Equality in the eyes of the law. Innocent until proven guilty. That's the right system. I'm all in favor of harsh sentencing for convicted rapists, and for those who are proven to make false claims.


  • #53
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Hold on a second. I didn't say any of that. But let's be clear here. Unfounded accusations hurt people, and do nothing to improve the system. In fact, when I suggest that women should be submitting their accusations and be investigated, you become offended.

    You don't like the current system regarding rape cases. So seek to change it. And that change will only happen when women submit their cases of harassment, sexual assault and rape to a legal authority... so that they can be investigated, the matter recorded and entered into statistics, and better research performed, thus leading to changes in the policing & legal systems.



    Yes, it is a twisted way of viewing things, and it's not my way. But it seems you're not willing to engage in a rational conversation on the subject and deal with what I've actually written.



    Providing a fair system where guilt is proven. That's what I am interested in. Gender Equality in the eyes of the law. Innocent until proven guilty. That's the right system. I'm all in favor of harsh sentencing for convicted rapists, and for those who are proven to make false claims.

    What hurts people is when rapists avoid prison or don't get long sentences. When women are called sluts and liars while their attackers are welcomed back into society.
    You're ignoring the fact that it's extremely difficult to get a rape conviction. Women do report assaults but get vilified. This is a serious situation.

    All the women telling their stories in the metoo campaign weren't liars. It shows how common it is for women to be attacked. Thousands upon thousands of women. It's scary and that's what we should be focused on. Not doubting their stories.


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I give up. You're not addressing what I wrote and instead, just repeating the same stuff.


  • #55
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I give up. You're not addressing what I wrote and instead, just repeating the same stuff.

    It's important. We're all in this together. Women shouldn't have to put up with being attacked and abused. As we saw with metoo, it's a regular occurrence. We should be fighting to stop this. That's all I'm saying, how can anyone disagree with that?


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    It's important. We're all in this together. Women shouldn't have to put up with being attacked and abused. As we saw with metoo, it's a regular occurrence. We should be fighting to stop this. That's all I'm saying, how can anyone disagree with that?

    And your posting attitude is exactly the reason that metoo gets such criticism.

    If you don't understand why I'm saying that, read back over my posts and yours, and consider what actual progress was made between us. Instead of progressing towards a useful conversation, I'm giving up and no longer responding to you. Metoo is going to receive the same reaction. There's simply no space for a rational and fair discussion.


  • #57
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Of course he was right, I would be very careful if I was in a position a high profile position on Hollywood.

    He probably should have stir cleared of it though because you can't have a rational conversation at the moment , it's what happens when the court of internet opinion takes over from law and order.

    Case in point is the white knighting we are seeing in relation to the topic.


  • #58
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,972 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    He should not have apologised as he said nothing that was not true.


  • #59
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Chris_Heilong wrote: »
    He should not have apologised as he said nothing that was not true.

    He had to, or his career would have taken a hit.


  • #60
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    I would love to be metoo'd right now.


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  • #61
    Pero_Bueno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭Pero_Bueno


    major bill wrote: »
    Life is better when you delete Twitter, Facebook and all other social media as you then realise the world isn't gone overly PC it's just the internet has been taken over by a bunch of overly sensitive eejets.

    Innocent comment, shouldn't have to apologise.


    Exactly, and soon someone will be brave enough to REFUSE to apologise, if you take offence it's your problem.

    I could be offended by a blue sky but noone is gonna be placating me over it.

    And then when this person refuses others will follow.

    Then people will realise social media is evil and stop using it, and we'll go back to using the internet for porn and discussing star trek like it was designed for ... well maybe not that part.

    :p


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