Peak Trans

Maxpfizer · 08-07-2018 07:27PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

In reply to Mazpfizer;
Surely if the child has male genitalia then it's easy to explain to them how they are male and why that is the case?

You can explain why they were born with certain genitalia, that does not provide answers and support with regards to how they are feeling

Then it's just a case of allowing them to express themselves in whichever way they choose while keeping them grounded by explaining biology?

What if they don't accept that? What if they tell you they are disgusted by their bodies and it is not their own and they cannot live in it?

It always seemed to me that a huge part of these issues come down to the connotations or the baggage that comes with the terms "male" and "female" or "boy" and "girl".

So just because a person has male genitalia they don't necessarily need to conform to some rigid male behavior or expectation.

What you are saying here is that transgender kids should be happy with not conforming to societal norms, rather than being happy living their authentic lives

However, I fail to see how they would be able to escape the reality of having male biology.

Surely this doesn't only apply to gender related issues in kids?

It would seem logical to me that a child who has difficulty understanding certain aspects and grasping certain facts of reality in ANY circumstance at all would be a risk for depression, self harm, suicide etc? Even worse when attempts to explain reality to the child fail and they continue to experience dysphoria.

Dysphoria is not a mental illness. Also, you're statements and tone (i.e. the use of the word "reality" are I'd imagine very insulting to any transgender person. Is what they are experiencing and feeling not "reality" too?

While I agree with you that it's not good to ignore or force the child and it's awful to just leave them to be miserable and to neglect their mental health, what are the legitimate, positive, solutions to this problem?

Being open, speaking to your kids, educating your kids on all gender issues. Speaking with your GP. Counselling. Engaging with support groups like TENI, theres plenty of solutions.

Is there any chance that it's also harmful to completely indulge them and go all in on gender reassignment etc?

Impossible to gereralise, every situation would need looked at individually

Honestly, it feels like you don't have any solutions at all here.

I am well aware that dysphoria is not a mental illness, thanks.

It still seems to me that having male or female genitalia or being biologically male or female is a reality that may be inescapable.

Your answers have really only solidified my view that there is a big issue with the baggage that comes with the terms "male" and "female".

We are at the point where you are saying that the use of the word "reality" is insulting.

So, my conclusion is that a lot of these kinds of conversations actually do center around the baggage that comes with certain words.

If someone has male genitalia then that's what they've got and that's it. However, saying they are a "boy" has other connotations outside of just biology and so it's the words themselves that are the issue?

OMG you used the word "reality", that's so insulting. OK... but things are what they are regardless of what you call them.

The Bishop Basher · 08-07-2018 07:32PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

I don't feel like speanding my evening defending myself against someone who thinks I may have accused them of being transphobic when they themselves are the only one to use the term.

So don’t. You should’t need to defend yourself. I asked 2 very straightforward questions which were fair enough given the statement and the context.

I took your statement as an insinuation that I was transphobic and gave you an opportunity to clarify.

You seem to have got yourself all worked up over it which says far more to me then the answer you’ve failed to provide.

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:33PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

OMG you used the word "reality", that's so insulting. OK... but things are what they are regardless of what you call them.

That's cool and all, but you didn't answer my question, which was the important part. Is what a transgender person (child or adult) feeling/experiencing, not reality too?

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:35PM

Rennaws wrote: »

So don’t. You should’t need to defend yourself. I asked 2 very straightforward questions which were fair enough given the statement and the context.

I took your statement as an insinuation that I was transphobic and gave you an opportunity to clarify.

You seem to have got yourself all worked up over it which says far more to me then the answer you’ve failed to provide.

Is me literally saying I didn't accuse you of being transphobic not your answer? No point trying to over complicate things here, I answered you very clearly, you chose to ignore it.

08-07-2018 07:35PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

So far I have actually enjoyed engaging in this thread and seeing other people's opinions, even if I don't agree with them. But I wont engage with somebody who registers a new account to post replies like this. Replies like this are why I felt the thread should be closed. Plenty of young people engage with boards.ie, imagine a young transgender person reading this.

With respect, a young transgender is likely to have experienced, heard, or read far worse things that goes on After Hours... and heaps of it coming from transgender blogs themselves. Everyone on the Internet knows there are those with extreme views or views completely opposite than their own. That's life. Get over it.

Shutting down discussion is not the way to achieve progress. IF you want non-transgender people to accept and appreciate/understand the situation of transgender people, then these kinds of discussions need to be encouraged... and that includes the remarks you don't appreciate yourself.

08-07-2018 07:37PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

That's cool and all, but you didn't answer my question, which was the important part. Is what a transgender person (child or adult) feeling/experiencing, not reality too?

For an adult, yes. But for a child? Who knows. Let them wear their dresses or cowboy boots but post-puberty should be the time when a person can decide on medication etc.

The Bishop Basher · 08-07-2018 07:38PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

cis-gendered

Jesus I fluckin hate that term.

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

With respect, a young transgender is likely to have experienced, heard, or read far worse things that goes on After Hours... and heaps of it coming from transgender blogs themselves. Everyone on the Internet knows there are those with extreme views or views completely opposite than their own. That's life. Get over it.

Shutting down discussion is not the way to achieve progress. IF you want non-transgender people to accept and appreciate/understand the situation of transgender people, then these kinds of discussions need to be encouraged... and that includes the remarks you don't appreciate yourself.

Fair point and point taken.

I think the point of view I am coming at it from is what I mentioned earlier, if this was a thread, with similar replies, about sexuality or ethnic minority or interrace couples, it would be closed. A person's gender, or a person's child's gender is nobody else's business or concern, that includes me.

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:39PM

Rennaws wrote: »

Jesus I fluckin hate that term.

Why?

08-07-2018 07:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For an adult, yes. But for a child? Who knows. Let them wear their dresses or cowboy boots but post-puberty should be the time when a person can decide on medication etc.

I'd say wait until they're legally adults. Then they can choose for themselves.

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For an adult, yes. But for a child? Who knows. Let them wear their dresses or cowboy boots but post-puberty should be the time when a person can decide on medication etc.

What a child chooses to wear is nothing to do with being transgender.

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say wait until they're legally adults. Then they can choose for themselves.

So at 15/16/17 a person shouldn't have bodily autonomy?

08-07-2018 07:46PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

What a child chooses to wear is nothing to do with being transgender.

And the rest of my post about waiting until after puberty?

The Bishop Basher · 08-07-2018 07:47PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Why?

Because my gender doesn’t need a label.

I was born a man. Therefore I’m a man.

ItAintMeBabe · 08-07-2018 07:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And the rest of my post about waiting until after puberty?

Well I think I've made my feelings on that fairly clear in the rest of my posts.

08-07-2018 07:52PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Well I think I've made my feelings on that fairly clear in the rest of my posts.

Then it looks like your work here is done. Thanks for the input.

o1s1n · 08-07-2018 07:54PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Why?

Less than 1% of the human population are transgender I believe?

We shouldn't need a special term for 99% of the population.

08-07-2018 07:58PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Fair point and point taken.

I think the point of view I am coming at it from is what I mentioned earlier, if this was a thread, with similar replies, about sexuality or ethnic minority or interrace couples, it would be closed.

No, it wouldn't be. There have been loads of threads about immigration, Islam, homosexuality, etc which, while controversial, haven't been closed. They're monitored, and bans handed out to posters by the mods.

A person's gender, or a person's child's gender is nobody else's business or concern, that includes me.

Except that Transgender people are generally not seeking to keep their gender private. They advertise that they're not male or female. They demand recognition that they're different, and that we must accept that they are different.

And from my POV, I find it annoying. The few adult transgenders I've encountered are physically stuck in the middle between the two genders. Their faces show both male and female physical characteristics, as do their bodies and their voices grate... like there's a mechanical voice-box in there somewhere. I'm sure they don't represent the majority of Transgender people, but they are what I've met. They look strange. they speak strange. And the act strange. So it's no wonder that I am uncomfortable around them. I don't fear them or hate them. I don't even understand them. But somehow because I am uncomfortable around them, or consider them odd in their appearance, I am Transphobic.

And the truth is that there are so few transgender people around me, that I'm highly unlikely to have any cause to know them personally. But I must become comfortable with their choices. And that will happen... how? Simply because someone decides I must? That's not how things work for most of us.

I'm not seeking to derail this thread, but I am tired of this attitude that we must simply accept other peoples choices, even when they're so incredibly different to what is normal.

Adults can mess about with their own biology. I don't care, as long as they bear the consequences/responsibility for their own choices. I do care about children being forced/encouraged into this kind of thing, because the parents won't be the ones bearing the consequences... the child will.

Annasopra · 08-07-2018 07:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For an adult, yes. But for a child? Who knows. Let them wear their dresses or cowboy boots but post-puberty should be the time when a person can decide on medication etc.

What do you mean who knows? There are many examples of trans children.

Annasopra · 08-07-2018 08:00PM

Rennaws wrote: »

Because my gender doesn’t need a label.

I was born a man. Therefore I’m a man.

Cool. I'm a cis man.

08-07-2018 08:04PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What do you mean who knows? There are many examples of trans children.

It was about "reality". I don't trust a child to know the reality of their biology, especially since it's before puberty.

I sometimes wonder if people who believe that kids should be allowed choose actually spend time with kids. I taught that age group for a year and I'd barely trust one to tell me the time, nevermind diagnose themselves as being in the wrong body.

The Bishop Basher · 08-07-2018 08:05PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Cool. I'm a cis man.

Go you..

I’m just a man.

Ken. · 08-07-2018 08:14PM

Mod-Hey guys, some posts and replies from a rereg troll removed. Sorry if it breaks the flow. Please just try ignore them like they aren't there and report them so we can remove.

o1s1n · 08-07-2018 08:15PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Cool. I'm a cis man.

Don't you mean cis, heterosexual, able bodied man?

Annasopra · 08-07-2018 08:17PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Don't you mean cis, heterosexual, able bodied man?

Na

Definitely not heterosexual

ceadaoin. · 08-07-2018 08:36PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What do you mean who knows? There are many examples of trans children.

Can you link to a story of a trans child that doesn't rely on gender stereotypes to show that the child is transgender? So an example of an assigned male at birth child, to use the correct terminology, which doesn't mention that they like dresses, dolls or make up so therefore must really be a girl. Or an article about a trans boy which doesn't mention being a "Tom boy" and not liking dresses or dolls.

I've never seen one. Perhaps if toys and interests for children were less "gendered" then parents could accept that their children like what they like and it doesn't mean that they are in fact somehow the opposite sex on the inside. Any studies that have been conducted show that most (as in 60%-90%) of "trans" kids turn out not to be trans in adulthood and a majority of those are homosexual. Or At least they used to in the days before they were put on the path of medical and social transition at 12 years of age or younger. Perhaps in the future this will be considered a form of conversion therapy. There are many parents, particularly religious ones, who would rather a straight daughter than a gay son and vice versa.

HappyAsLarE · 08-07-2018 08:48PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

So at 15/16/17 a person shouldn't have bodily autonomy?

Hell no. They no nothing, John Snow.

Annasopra · 08-07-2018 08:54PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Can you link to a story of a trans child that doesn't rely on gender stereotypes to show that the child is transgender? So an example of an assigned male at birth child, to use the correct terminology, which doesn't mention that they like dresses, dolls or make up so therefore must really be a girl. Or an article about a trans boy which doesn't mention being a "Tom boy" and not liking dresses or dolls.

Every story I have read the parent speaks of going beyond that and actually engagaing with the child, listening to what the child says, observing the childs behaviour before and after social transition so it seems to me you are kind of missing the point. Your focus seems to be what the child wears or plays with whereas parents of trans children and medics who deal with them go way beyond that by listening to and observing the child in multiple situtations.

fattymuatty · 08-07-2018 09:06PM

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

What if they don't accept that? What if they tell you they are disgusted by their bodies and it is not their own and they cannot live in it?

Where do you draw the line with this? What about a child that is disgusted by their weight, they feel like they are fat even when they are not. Their body feels repellent, what do you do in that situation? Is the solution to change the childs body until they feel better about it? Put them on a diet until they feel happy with their body again?

What if they want to be taller? They hate being the smallest in their class, time passes and they are still the smallest, they hate it, they feel they cannot live with it. Do you give them hormones to make them taller? Give them surgery to lengthen their legs?

Why is it that when a child is unhappy with their 'gender' we feel it is ok to give them blockers, hormones, surgery as standard but we don't break a short kids legs and make them taller as standard?

Considering something like 80% of kids with gender dysphoria if left alone will accept and be happy as the sex they are, jumping in with blockers which are used to treat prostate cancer in men and which studies have raised concerns about seems crazy to me.

Pero_Bueno · 08-07-2018 09:13PM

Malayalam wrote: »

I really feel like exploding sometimes with the push of transgenderism on children. For adults, I truly do not care what you do with your body or mind - it is your business completely. Feel free!

But the treatment of children with gender dysphoria is the main social issue of my time with which I have the greatest difficulty. The push to lay the medical ground work for the transition of very young children via puberty blockers and ''social transitioning'' is truly insidious. Sure, a lot more of it seems to be in the US / Australia but the Tavistock Institute in the UK is pushing hard there. There are large online communities welcoming in confused kids and no one is saying anything even though this is as bad as pro anorexia or pro cutting sites. A lot of these kids left alone would desist, and/or accept that they are homosexual, but they are being chaperoned by counsellors and medics to make rapid, irreversible changes. The chemicals will harm them - vascular disease, diabetes, bone density. The ironic inherent contradiction in the ridiculous ideology when extrapolated to its conclusion is that children given puberty blockers when young are presenting for gender confirmation surgery at adulthood and finding they do not have sufficient genital tissue to accommodate the operation!
There is absolutely no need for this idiotic detachment of gender from biology at the youngest age - taking girl/boy references out of childhood books, going out of one's way not to promote gender identity from infancy, youth camps and festivals for transkids, even the fetishizing of drag kids. Worse still, pushing the idea that anyone who questions or does not support the fetish is phobic. It's quite perverted, because it emphasises sexuality in children to a degree that I find has positively pedophiliac undertones. I think a lot of these parents have Munchausen's-by-proxy. There are going to be so many fcuked up young people in some years - people who should have been left alone as kids instead of shoe-horned via a hugely-expanding transgender INDUSTRY.

This is the rag to my bull this morning..... Honestly, I could punch these degenerates. NSFW https://transkids.biz/products/extra-small-silicone-packers
Leave the children alone!

Great post - and I think you are SPOT ON about the Munchausen's-by-proxy.
These are the same parents that will whine about people buying their little boy a toy car moaning that it's typical boy style toy - while trying to force their son/daughter to play with the "typical" opposite gender based toy.

And that link ??? WTF .... so fuuuccckkkked up ... anyone buying that for a ****ing KID is a f*cking sick twisted c*nt !

Sexualising children - so utterly ****ed up.

Peak Trans

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