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Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

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Comments

  • #272
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    archer22 wrote: »
    There are always going to be some that get through the net...but trying to put the blame for that atrocity on the security forces is a bit much.
    I don't think if those terrorists defence in court was "its not our fault they should have stopped us"that that defence would have stood up!!.

    The blame belongs solely where it lies

    Who do you blame for the Dublin-Monaghan bombings btw?


  • #273
    archer22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    I told you the reason that the scumbags who carried it out had for doing it. Where did I put the blame on the security forces? I'm just wondering why they didn't stop it and what was their reason for not stopping it?

    They knew about it, they could have stopped it but didn't.

    You seem to suggesting that they wanted it to happen :confused:

    I don't know the full details of this case and seemingly neither do you.
    But wasn't there something about the warning the terrorist phoned in being for the wrong street?


  • #274
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    they had my support - as well as that of many others where I lived. No-one - and I would assume that includes provos at the time - could support everything they did as some of it was just stupidity, but at the time, in that environment, they protected people better than the RUC. That was my experience at the time anyway - not really interested in debating it.


  • #275
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    archer22 wrote: »
    At the end of the day the security forces are the real unsung heroes...by the latter stages of the conflict they had both the republicans and loyalists so infiltrated that either side could rarely carry out a successful attack and even if they did they were quickly arrested.
    The amount of lives and property those brave men and women saved is incalculable ...and it is work they quietly continue doing to this day.
    Total anarchy and chaos would have been the order of the day without them...its thanks to them that civilisation now prevails.

    its thanks to them that things got so ****ed up and continued for longer than they should have


  • #276
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    robindch wrote: »
    The IRA and their fellow terrorists took everybody's inbuilt pride in their country and perverted it into a chauvanistic nationalism which hated everybody else to the extent that they felt justified in murdering anybody they wanted to, including people who happened to be unlucky enough to get in the way:


    Bit strange they had links with the PLO and A|NC then so.



    robindch wrote: »
    Because they lacked the public support and the private bravery to stand up and fight as men, they instead fought as the cowards they were.


    You don't know much about either the armed struggle or warfare generally, I'd say.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Conservation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_British_Army_Gazelle_shootdown
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Crossmaglen_Ambush


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  • #277
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    archer22 wrote: »
    There are always going to be some that get through the net...but trying to put the blame for that atrocity on the security forces is a bit much.
    I don't think if those terrorists defence in court was "its not our fault they should have stopped us"that that defence would have stood up!!.

    The blame belongs solely where it lies

    at the time, the RUC were complaining that peace would take away their extra 'danger money' pay and the proposed reduction in staff numbers. They also herded everyone to an area of Market street that has large buildings on each side - and not the bus depot where they used to ALWAYS send people during bomb scares. I think some people in the RUC knew more than they were/are willing to admit


  • #278
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    maccored wrote: »
    at the time, the RUC were complaining that peace would take away their extra 'danger money' pay and the proposed reduction in staff numbers. They also herded everyone to an area of Market street that has large buildings on each side - and not the bus depot where they used to ALWAYS send people during bomb scares. I think some people in the RUC knew more than they were/are willing to admit

    For someone who said they didn't want to debate it....


  • #279
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    archer22 wrote: »
    You seem to suggesting that they wanted it to happen :confused:

    I don't know the full details of this case and seemingly neither do you.
    But wasn't there something about the warning the terrorist phoned in being for the wrong street?

    I want to know the reason, you said that the security forces had infiltrated loyalists and republicans. They also knew about this bomb and were tracking it. Surely these heroes should have put a stop to it?

    The families of the victims are asking questions on this also. They're not getting much of a response. The heroes you paint them to be is a false image.


  • #280
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    umop episdn wrote: »
    For someone who said they didn't want to debate it....

    im not debating - just stating fact

    from the Ombudsman report in 2001:
    “On 4 August 1998, eleven days before the bombing, the RUC received an anonymous telephone call warning that there would be an ‘unspecified’ terrorist attack on police in Omagh on 15 August 1998.” However “Special Branch took only limited action on the information received…and a threat warning was not sent to the Sub-Divisional Commander Omagh, as required by a Force Order.”


  • #281
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    maccored wrote: »
    im not debating - just stating fact

    from the Ombudsman report in 2001:

    Had nothing to do with your previous post.


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  • #282
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    umop episdn wrote: »
    Had nothing to do with your previous post.

    which means I wasn't debating anything, since the two posts arent related. whats your point here? theres lots of info on this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7606834.stm ... monitoring phone calls for example. nevermind the informants who passed on information that was ignored and in some cases, deleted


  • #283
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    maccored wrote: »
    which means I wasn't debating anything, since the two posts arent related. whats your point here? theres lots of info on this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7606834.stm ... monitoring phone calls for example. nevermind the informants who passed on information that was ignored and in some cases, deleted

    And still nothing to do with your original post....scattergun approach eh?


  • #284
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    umop episdn wrote: »
    And still nothing to do with your original post....scattergun approach eh?

    Can't come up with any defence for your heroes?


  • #285
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    umop episdn wrote: »
    And still nothing to do with your original post....scattergun approach eh?

    eh? my first post was about supporting the IRA. this is about how dodgy the RUC are. whats this - scatterbrain approach, eh?


  • #286
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    maccored wrote: »
    eh? my first post was about supporting the IRA. this is about how dodgy the RUC are. whats this - scatterbrain approach, eh?

    Scattergun.... but...yeah your posts do seem a bit scatterbrained alright, I'll grant you that


  • #287
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    umop episdn wrote: »
    Scattergun.... but...yeah your posts do seem a bit scatterbrained alright, I'll grant you that

    right, i get you. You haven't any point to make. well done.


  • #288
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    archer22 wrote: »
    Except that(...........) for half savages.




    Nauseating.


  • #289
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    maccored wrote: »
    right, i get you. You haven't any point to make. well done.

    Normal paramilitary practice...murder the innocents...and look to blame the police force for the death toll...


  • #290
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    umop episdn wrote: »
    Normal paramilitary practice...murder the innocents...and look to blame the police force for the death toll...

    Apart from the other murders committed by the security forces, they have blood on their hands in this case also.


  • #291
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    I want to know the reason, you said that the security forces had infiltrated loyalists and republicans. They also knew about this bomb and were tracking it. Surely these heroes should have put a stop to it?

    The families of the victims are asking questions on this also. They're not getting much of a response. The heroes you paint them to be is a false image.

    It will probably take them 40 years to get answers and even then, if it is found that culpability lies somewhere, no justice at all.


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  • #292
    umop episdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭umop episdn


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Apart from the other murders committed by the security forces, they have blood on their hands in this case also.

    Whataboutery eh?

    Paramilitarys blaming everyone else for their murderous ways


  • #293
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    umop episdn wrote: »
    Whataboutery eh?

    Paramilitarys blaming everyone else for their murderous ways

    Why are you defending the security forces who have blood on their hands?


  • #294
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    umop episdn wrote: »
    Normal paramilitary practice...murder the innocents...and look to blame the police force for the death toll...

    yeah, they were lovely people the RUC. Really classy. I used to love how they used to search me in the middle of the street, taking out my personal belongings, throwing them on the ground, having a laugh at anything they found - like personal letters or notes etc. yeah, they were great. especially in the orange bloackades when they used to watch the loyalists throwing stones at cars etc and do nothing. Or how about the time they watched a fella getting beaten to death - lovely lads altogether. People flocked to the IRA just to get a crack at them.

    I suppose you cant differentiate between the realIRA and the PIRA (which is what most people refer to when they say the 'IRA') either.


  • #295
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    archer22 wrote: »
    There are always going to be some that get through the net...but trying to put the blame for that atrocity on the security forces is a bit much.
    I don't think if those terrorists defence in court was "its not our fault they should have stopped us"that that defence would have stood up!!.

    The blame belongs solely where it lies

    The atrocity wasn’t their fault, it was solely the fault of the people who planted the bomb.

    However, there is plenty of evidence out there that suggests that the Brits knew about the bomb, knew where it was and herded British security forces away from where the bomb was planted when it went off. Surely these are all legitimate questions?

    Or to put it another way... who benefitted and who lost from this bomb going off and so many innocent people dying. Republicans were never into mass innocent lives being lost as they needed the support of their community.

    The most logical conclusion is that some British security personnel absolutely knew about this bomb and exactly where it was planted and when it would go off... If they had stopped it innocent lives would have been saved.


  • #296
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    The atrocity wasn’t their fault, it was solely the fault of the people who planted the bomb.

    However, there is plenty of evidence out there that suggests that the Brits knew about the bomb, knew where it was and herded British security forces away from where the bomb was planted when it went off. Surely these are all legitimate questions?

    Or to put it another way... who benefitted and who lost from this bomb going off and so many innocent people dying. Republicans were never into mass innocent lives being lost as they needed the support of their community.

    The most logical conclusion is that some British security personnel absolutely knew about this bomb and exactly where it was planted and when it would go off... If they had stopped it innocent lives would have been saved.

    It was a war??

    There was collusion, the British government used whatever means it thought to protect itself.

    Which is utterly disgraceful but the other side were at it too.

    It’s not that hard to understand, I don’t get why people think it’s a shock.


  • #297
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    archer22 wrote: »
    At the end of the day the security forces are the real unsung heroes...by the latter stages of the conflict they had both the republicans and loyalists so infiltrated that either side could rarely carry out a successful attack and even if they did they were quickly arrested.
    The amount of lives and property those brave men and women saved is incalculable ...and it is work they quietly continue doing to this day.
    Total anarchy and chaos would have been the order of the day without them...its thanks to them that civilisation now prevails.
    Some of them had the best job in the whole world, beating the sh*t out of IRA terrorists in prison. Well done to them.


  • #298
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    maccored wrote: »
    yeah, they were lovely people the RUC. Really classy. I used to love how they used to search me in the middle of the street, taking out my personal belongings, throwing them on the ground, having a laugh at anything they found - like personal letters or notes etc. yeah, they were great. especially in the orange bloackades when they used to watch the loyalists throwing stones at cars etc and do nothing. Or how about the time they watched a fella getting beaten to death - lovely lads altogether. People flocked to the IRA just to get a crack at them.

    I suppose you cant differentiate between the realIRA and the PIRA (which is what most people refer to when they say the 'IRA') either.

    RUC and the PIRA both the same dealing with innocent people.


  • #299
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    The atrocity wasn’t their fault, it was solely the fault of the people who planted the bomb.

    However, there is plenty of evidence out there that suggests that the Brits knew about the bomb, knew where it was and herded British security forces away from where the bomb was planted when it went off. Surely these are all legitimate questions?

    Or to put it another way... who benefitted and who lost from this bomb going off and so many innocent people dying. Republicans were never into mass innocent lives being lost as they needed the support of their community.

    The most logical conclusion is that some British security personnel absolutely knew about this bomb and exactly where it was planted and when it would go off... If they had stopped it innocent lives would have been saved.

    I think it is safe to say that posters who have openly advocated for random slaughter and executions of nationalists would have no problem with the British colluding in deaths.


  • #300
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    It was a war??

    There was collusion, the British government used whatever means it thought to protect itself.

    Which is utterly disgraceful but the other side were at it too.

    It’s not that hard to understand, I don’t get why people think it’s a shock.

    So why was the poster painting them as heroes? They're up to their neck in it.


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  • #301
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I think it is safe to say that posters who have openly advocated for random slaughter and executions of nationalists would have no problem with the British colluding in deaths.

    The British colluded in deaths, what’s the shock here???


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