traveller culture and history to become mandatory in school curriculums

Hitman3000 · 03-07-2018 11:35PM

Sleeper12 wrote:

Ireland has the highest rate of hate crime against transgender people and people of African background in the EU, according to a new report. According to the Chief Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, Emily Logan, Ireland is shown to be seriously lacking in addressing the issue and she said that more needs to be done to rectify it.

May be an issue with people of Afican origin, but since when are transgender people a distinct and separate race. Btw I found no mention of Ireland is the most racist.....

Dr Brown · 04-07-2018 12:21AM

I bet that whoever came up with this idea doesn't live beside travellers.

dd972 · 04-07-2018 12:39AM

What were their origins though?

Dispossessed by Cromwell and sent west?

Formerly respectable tinsmiths and artisans?

Or a bunch of people who just went rogue from Irish society at some point?

I must admit I used to think Ward was just a common-or-garden English surname.

Ipso · 04-07-2018 12:50AM

dd972 wrote: »

What were their origins though?

Dispossessed by Cromwell and sent west?

Formerly respectable tinsmiths and artisans?

Or a bunch of people who just went rogue from Irish society at some point?

I must admit I used to think Ward was just a common-or-garden English surname.

I don't think it was a case of Cromwell sending them Wesht, there was supposed to be massive displacement in Ireland during that time due to war and not just due to hell or to Connacht.
I've read that nomadism wasn't too uncommon in Ireland back then, there was something called boolying where people moved with cattle to different areas depending on feed available in pastures etc
Ward has a couple origins, the Irish one derives from Bards and the English one comes from a name for a guard/warden.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 04-07-2018 12:57AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So the head of an organisation that depends on discrimination and racism to justify its existence finds that discrimination and racism exists... Hmm

Interesting results in a country full of multinational companies and foreign workers.

As for the African angle.. I think you'll find its illegal migrants chancing their arm and being rewarded for their efforts by EU politicians at the expense (financial and socially) of the citizens of those EU nations who are expected to live with the consequences that's the issue there.

I've worked in several multinationals now and there's people from dozens of countries working and socialising together - if anything, the Irish can be in the minority on many of the teams but yet I've never once heard of a racially motivated incident in the last 20 years of working in such places.

Of course not in your multinational, that’s correct.

I’m not that PC (at all really) but in fact there’s a good reason to welcome more action on hate crimes, and by that I don’t mean speech but violence.

Hate crimes and violence on the street are often caused by our feral underclass - an underclass the judiciary is reluctant to jail. This might shame them into it.

How Soon Is Now · 04-07-2018 12:58AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ireland-highest-rates-hate-crime-12846133

Ireland has the highest rate of hate crime against transgender people and people of African background in the EU, according to a new report.
According to the Chief Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, Emily Logan, Ireland is shown to be seriously lacking in addressing the issue and she said that more needs to be done to rectify it.

Not important doubt most people would be bothered by any of that. Same goes for teaching kids bout traveler culture pointless of no benefit to anyone other then traveler kids themselves but sure they don't go to school anyway.

Noveight · 04-07-2018 12:58AM

Thankfully it's just a proposal for now. The height of Mickey Mouse politics with plenty of back-slapping and circle-jerking while actually achieving sweet FA.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 04-07-2018 12:59AM

dd972 wrote: »

What were their origins though?

Dispossessed by Cromwell and sent west?

Formerly respectable tinsmiths and artisans?

Or a bunch of people who just went rogue from Irish society at some point?

I must admit I used to think Ward was just a common-or-garden English surname.

Yeh, there’s no real mention of travellers in historical texts, sure there were travelling people abd farmhands but that was 20% if the population.

0byme75341jo28 · 04-07-2018 01:00AM

Imagine being against mindfulness being taught in school.

Jesus wept, that thing saves lives.

spurious · 04-07-2018 01:00AM

History is no longer a core subject, so this will be yet another 'file in the cupboard nobody opens' situation.

Mutant z · 04-07-2018 01:00AM

What comes next Islam, Hinduism,Buddhism, Scientology, transsexualism, feminism and every single fad or belief on this planet it has to stop somewhere otherwise nothing else will ever get taught in schools.

spurious · 04-07-2018 01:03AM

Mutant z wrote: »

What comes next Islam, Hinduism,Buddhism, Scientology, transsexualism, feminism and every single fad or belief on this planet it has to stop somewhere otherwise nothing else will ever get taught in schools.

Sure with the new JC won't everyone be doing grand anyway, in the race to the bottom.

Calhoun · 04-07-2018 01:08AM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Not important doubt most people would be bothered by any of that. Same goes for teaching kids bout traveler culture pointless of no benefit to anyone other then traveler kids themselves but sure they don't go to school anyway.

Well you see on its own education about traveller culture is a bad thing because it has the specter of all the other problems with the culture hanging over it.

If the government is serious about traveller equality then they must tackle the more visible and toxic behavior of the community as a whole in addition to the inequalities.

04-07-2018 01:18AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

May be an issue with people of Afican origin, but since when are transgender people a distinct and separate race. Btw I found no mention of Ireland is the most racist.....

I can certainly understand Irish people being wary or uncomfortable with transgender people. I certainly am. I've seen very few of them around, and never had any cause to socialise with one. And honestly, I don't know what to make of them considering they don't seem to be male or female, but somehow a mixture of both (I'm talking facial features and body type, not sexually).

I really don't get this demand to instantly accept whatever "new" trend that comes along. Give us some frickin time to get comfortable with the idea before labeling us all as racists, bigots, etc. (I don't mean you, Hitman3000, btw)

How Soon Is Now · 04-07-2018 01:18AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Well you see on its own education about traveller culture is a bad thing because it has the specter of all the other problems with the culture hanging over it.

If the government is serious about traveller equality then they must tackle the more visible and toxic behavior of the community as a whole in addition to the inequalities.

That's the thing I've always felt very strongly about everytime the word equality gets thrown around.

When it's used in most cases the groups it's aimed towards pride themselves in being different to everyone else and playing by different rules.

Everyone been seen as equal pretty much goes out the window so.

Calhoun · 04-07-2018 01:21AM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

That's the thing I've always felt very strongly about everytime the word equality gets thrown around.

When it's used in most cases the groups it's aimed towards pride themselves in being different to everyone else and playing by different rules.

Everyone been seen as equal pretty much goes out the window so.

Depends on how they roll out this proposed education, if its an education in exercise about the culture that is not out to guilt settled people then it should be ok.

However if its used to re-enforce the poor cultural behavior and blame problems on the settled people of Ireland then its not a good thing.

04-07-2018 01:27AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Depends on how they roll out this proposed education, if its an education in exercise about the culture that is not out to guilt settled people then it should be ok.

However if its used to re-enforce the poor cultural behavior and blame problems on the settled people of Ireland then its not a good thing.

It's probably going to be an extension of these workshop programs that started to promote 'traveller' crafts. Take pride in their culture... and so, mainstream Irish people would be required to learn about them.

I'd imagine it'll be used to justify their existence, as a distinct and separate ethnic group in Ireland, but who need our support. An excuse to remain as they are... since any Irish people who criticise them, haven't made the effort to understand them, even though the knowledge is available.

How Soon Is Now · 04-07-2018 01:27AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Depends on how they roll out this proposed education, if its an education in exercise about the culture that is not out to guilt settled people then it should be ok.

However if its used to re-enforce the poor cultural behavior and blame problems on the settled people of Ireland then its not a good thing.

It would be there to "educate" people on why there wrong about the travelling community.

I don't see how learning about any of it is of benefit to any child in school.

pickarooney · 04-07-2018 04:50AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Depends on how they roll out this proposed education, if its an education in exercise about the culture that is not out to guilt settled people then it should be ok.

However if its used to re-enforce the poor cultural behavior and blame problems on the settled people of Ireland then its not a good thing.

Yes, history needs to remain a subject where we get to blame everything on the British.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 04-07-2018 05:23AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ireland-highest-rates-hate-crime-12846133

Ireland has the highest rate of hate crime against transgender people and people of African background in the EU, according to a new report.
According to the Chief Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, Emily Logan, Ireland is shown to be seriously lacking in addressing the issue and she said that more needs to be done to rectify it.

Think the politics of Europe, both past and present would disagree with that strongly.

wexandproud · 04-07-2018 05:39AM

Grayson wrote: »

Can you name one aspect of traveller culture that you haven't seen in a tabloid?

Maybe you should attend a class. To be fair I probably could as well.

I can't see any harm in kids learning. It's not like it's going to be a load of time.

years ago you would have come across the word '' tinker'' as some of them would repair pots and pans , the word '' knacker''would have been used to describe those who went from farm to farm collecting dead animals and bringing them to the knackers yard . Both these titles seem to cause offence now , maybe because it reminds them of a time when they did something productive
regarding the proposals , I think they would be far better off educating the travellers to the cultures , and laws the settled community live by . If they bother turning uo for school that is

Mr. teddywinkles · 04-07-2018 07:06AM

I've definitely seen it all now. seem to wake up every day lately to some new form of compliant horse****e in this country. I think politicians should start being called out on all these crap proposals. Just be ridiculed till they up and pack the job in.

Subcomandante Marcos · 04-07-2018 07:12AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmmm. 14% of the "general population" don't finish school so 50 times that would mean that 700% of travellers don't. Dodgy maths there. Unless an awful lot of the Travellers who do finish school fail all around in the LC.

You're not very good at math.

Uncharted · 04-07-2018 07:25AM

Are there no "travellers" on boards here to give us an insight into their opinions on this?

It's hardly being left to settled people to ensure their destiny,is it.....?

I'd be surprised if there are none on here.

:rolleyes:

Mr. teddywinkles · 04-07-2018 07:27AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can certainly understand Irish people being wary or uncomfortable with transgender people. I certainly am. I've seen very few of them around, and never had any cause to socialise with one. And honestly, I don't know what to make of them considering they don't seem to be male or female, but somehow a mixture of both (I'm talking facial features and body type, not sexually).

I really don't get this demand to instantly accept whatever "new" trend that comes along. Give us some frickin time to get comfortable with the idea before labeling us all as racists, bigots, etc. (I don't mean you, Hitman3000, btw)

I think a lot of it is that exactly. Most people are too busy working trying to keep a roof over their head to worry about what new trend or change is thrown at them tomorrow. Change can be for the better but not that fooking fast paced. Media seem to hound about the next new change or just keep shoving down our necks wheather we agree with it or not as of late.
Cohabitation with different people is good long term but doesn't mean it has to be up in my face every day. Politicians see this as a new way of promoting themselves so go with the next new trend or social injustice campaign. Can be really irritating listening to them.

Day Lewin · 04-07-2018 07:30AM

Please consider that the cultural group who endure the most entrenched racism in Irish society are as much entitled to understanding as any other group.

And they clearly must BE a "separate group" judging by the six pages of posts already on the specific subject of Travellers.

4ensic15 · 04-07-2018 07:48AM

A lot of this is impractical. Health and Safety won't allow bare knuckle boxing, making piles of refuse and lighting wood fires, not to mention battering women and children.

Day Lewin · 04-07-2018 07:52AM

4ensic15 wrote: »

A lot of this is impractical. Health and Safety won't allow bare knuckle boxing, making piles of refuse and lighting wood fires, not to mention battering women and children.

I rest my case.

Graces7 · 04-07-2018 07:56AM

North inner city hoodlum wrote: »

Knowledge of what a backwards culture who scam take and abuse their own worse than any "settled" person has or ever will.

The harm is their culture is 100 years backwards and no good will come from traveller history or cultural lessons they're a parasitic bunch of b@stards and I do feel sorry for all the kids brought up in their lifestyle where scamming robbing and shouting discrimination at every opportunity they get is above education a home and basic human decency they have caused most of their own problems because they don't want to integrate at all, funding thrown at them left right and centre and still no change.

A waste of money and time.

You must be so out of breath after this post

Irish Guitarist · 04-07-2018 08:02AM

I can't see anyone with any sense agreeing to this.

Senator Kelleher said that discrimination and bullying has led to many Traveller children leaving school early.

This is definitely why they leave school early. The parents bear absolutely no responsibility for this at all. Like everything else that goes wrong in their life it's someones elses fault. And traveller children are little angels who would never bully anyone. Perish the thought.

When someone treats them badly it's the biggest injustice in the world. If a traveller does something to you and you complain about it though you're a 'racist' bastard.

traveller culture and history to become mandatory in school curriculums

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