Dairy chit chat II

Mooooo · 02-07-2018 03:36PM

It always seems to go round in circles but the same conclusion arrives. Doesn't matter what cow type are there, it's the management is key. We all know farmers with high yielders and lower yielders who we would class as good operator and both do fine.
Just like some may try to follow the low input and mess up, plenty more have gone trying the high input and messed up, by either not getting the yields or waste or whatever and id prob include myself in the second group there for a bit but hopefully learning. All systems require the same basic thing cows well fed, how that's done can be different but it's circumstance and management determine it really.

yewtree · 02-07-2018 03:52PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

So milk yield per cow has no relationship with profit .hmmmmmm good yield is essential but good solids % is also just as essential extremes of one or other not what u want .look at greenfield report last week and the glaring hole in the milk Cheque ,guts of 50 k Ltrs less milk sold in may with more cows and more feed gone in if and in all likelihood we are going to get more weather extremes where more feed is going to have to be fed stocking rates and cow type is going to have to be readdressed ....

My point is that yield alone predicts nothing, there are lots of lads who are very profitability doing 420 kg of solids and there are guys doing 580 kg and are profitable. If you have seen research work that shows something different you might post a link to it.
The one thing I really dislike is the way farmers are turning on each other. Some lads are very insecure about their own system if all they can do is criticise other farmers.
There will be loads of battles in the future where will need to pull togeather

mahoney_j · 02-07-2018 04:02PM

yewtree wrote: »

My point is that yield alone predicts nothing, there are lots of lads who are very profitability doing 420 kg of solids and there are guys doing 580 kg and are profitable. If you have seen research work that shows something different you might post a link to it.
The one thing I really dislike is the way farmers are turning on each other. Some lads are very insecure about their own system if all they can do is criticise other farmers.
There will be loads of battles in the future where will need to pull togeather

Don’t see it as turning on one another ,lads are just pure head strong on both sides some more than others .i maintain what I said earlier and use greenfield as an example where they have serious sokid % low yields and down 50 k litres on same month last year with more cows and more feed (expense)ignoring yield at expense of solids and vice versa ain’t right were paid on kgms so that’s what we need to produce as much of them as efficiently as we can

yewtree · 02-07-2018 04:27PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Don’t see it as turning on one another ,lads are just pure head strong on both sides some more than others .i maintain what I said earlier and use greenfield as an example where they have serious sokid % low yields and down 50 k litres on same month last year with more cows and more feed (expense)ignoring yield at expense of solids and vice versa ain’t right were paid on kgms so that’s what we need to produce as much of them as efficiently as we can

Agree with you on that focusing on any one thing is not a great idea. We should have a balanced view on things. Having very high protein isn't a cast iron guartee a farm is making money either.
Some of the stuff on twitter can get quite nasty though. It seems to turn into a game of one upmanship.
Without going over old ground, take the greenfield it seems to have had a rough few months, but surely the project should be judged on its lifetime performance rather that a few hard months. Every farm experiences a few difficult periods

kowtow · 02-07-2018 04:35PM

yewtree wrote: »

Agree with you on that focusing on any one thing is not a great idea. We should have a balanced view on things. Having very high protein isn't a cast iron guartee a farm is making money either.
Some of the stuff on twitter can get quite nasty though. It seems to turn into a game of one upmanship.
Without going over old ground, take the greenfield it seems to have had a rough few months, but surely the project should be judged on its lifetime performance rather that a few hard months. Every farm experiences a few difficult periods

It might not be much comfort to those working in it, but I'd say even those people who haven't a good word to say about it have learned more from Greenfield already than they thought they ever would.

Grass is a volatile crop and milk powder is a volatile commodity. The profits, if there are any, lie in the curve between the two, and it takes a fair bit of skill and a little bit of good fortune to access them. It was never going to be easy whatever anybody says, you just have to evolve a system which is flexible and nuanced enough to respond to conditions.

mahoney_j · 02-07-2018 04:37PM

yewtree wrote: »

Agree with you on that focusing on any one thing is not a great idea. We should have a balanced view on things. Having very high protein isn't a cast iron guartee a farm is making money either.
Some of the stuff on twitter can get quite nasty though. It seems to turn into a game of one upmanship.
Without going over old ground, take the greenfield it seems to have had a rough few months, but surely the project should be judged on its lifetime performance rather that a few hard months. Every farm experiences a few difficult periods

Yep agree but it’s a system that most myself included would run a mile from last few months have opened glaring holes in the operation tho

whelan2 · 02-07-2018 04:43PM

I haven't read their updates but fair play if they are being honest with what is happening there.

Coolfresian · 02-07-2018 05:08PM

Both systems have advantages but yield has a massive impact on profit. On my own farm experience, no matter how high solids are, if your coming from a low yield base it's still a low overall cheque. In years of extremes like this which are becoming more common, I prefer having a cow which responds to feed. Your getting the cost back in extra yield. With a similar number of cows this year to last, the herd is 15,% ahead on yield than last year, 10% ahead in June. Getting 4kgs/day in the parlour. herd average atm 28 litres/day including winter milkers. Solids in top 10% glanbia. Hol/bf type herd. It's not the kind of herd that's being promoted atm but works for me

whelan2 · 02-07-2018 08:00PM

What are dairy stock making now. Scanned in calf cows?

older by the day · 02-07-2018 08:14PM

Mooooo wrote: »

It always seems to go round in circles but the same conclusion arrives. Doesn't matter what cow type are there, it's the management is key. We all know farmers with high yielders and lower yielders who we would class as good operator and both do fine.
Just like some may try to follow the low input and mess up, plenty more have gone trying the high input and messed up, by either not getting the yields or waste or whatever and id prob include myself in the second group there for a bit but hopefully learning. All systems require the same basic thing cows well fed, how that's done can be different but it's circumstance and management determine it really.

I agree with this, my farm is poor, rocks and bogs, a few good acres around d house for silage, I go to d KT meetings for d 750 Euro and a chat but I don't pay attention to other people's figures, a two thousand gallon cow seemly can't survive on rushes, while a shorthorn 900 gallon cow will pick away with 2 kegs or meal at milking, health and fertily are way underrated. calf and jump up and out the door. I dont have help to be lifting those big cows, going down with fever and stomach problems. Making comparisons is a definite way of making myself feel bad. I've plenty for my family and that's what's important.

Waffletraktor · 02-07-2018 08:28PM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

This is becoming a nasty place

If the dairy industry was already 40odd% down on output and hte narrative would be much worse than 'sher isn't that terrible for them'.

visatorro · 02-07-2018 10:34PM

jaymla627 wrote:

Swings and roundabouts, have 1000 bales and 60 acres of pit in the yard be about 8 months feed if no grass in the diet , but I'm one of those high cost farmers feeding to much meal with low ebi cows who's doing the whole job wrong.... It's a tipping point this year for a lot of lads who have simply bred high solid/low volume cows that simply won't respond to feed like a good Holstein cow will, its the perfect system when grass is their but goes tits up when your get weather events like this year

Will high cost admit less profit in low price years or when meal is more expensive? And will low cost operators admit less profit when grass disappears?

Little White lies never hurt anyone really!!

Panch18 · 02-07-2018 11:05PM

I don’t think it matter what cow or what system you have, they is simply f&&k all money out of cows and we are only coddling ourselves thinking there is

I think we need to face up to reality

mahoney_j · 02-07-2018 11:09PM

Panch18 wrote: »

I don’t think it matter what cow or what system you have, they is simply f&&k all money out of cows and we are only coddling ourselves thinking there is

I think we need to face up to reality

We’re just the numpty price takers at the bottom of the food chain ,every body else’s margin up along is protected bar the idiot producing it .harsh but true

Panch18 · 02-07-2018 11:12PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Panch18 wrote: »

I don’t think it matter what cow or what system you have, they is simply f&&k all money out of cows and we are only coddling ourselves thinking there is

I think we need to face up to reality

We’re just the numpty price takers at the bottom of the food chain ,every body else’s margin up along is protected bar the idiot producing it .harsh but true

All the risk, all the work and none of the benefits

Dairy farmers need to wake up, we are being made fools of

Keepgrowing · 02-07-2018 11:16PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts, have 1000 bales and 60 acres of pit in the yard be about 8 months feed if no grass in the diet , but I'm one of those high cost farmers feeding to much meal with low ebi cows who's doing the whole job wrong....
It's a tipping point this year for a lot of lads who have simply bred high solid/low volume cows that simply won't respond to feed like a good Holstein cow will, its the perfect system when grass is their but goes tits up when your get weather events like this year

A nasty post.
I cannot abide farmers who take pleasure and strive to massage their own insecurities through others misfortune

A clear illustration of growing up to be done

older by the day · 02-07-2018 11:22PM

Panch18 wrote: »

All the risk, all the work and none of the benefits

Dairy farmers need to wake up, we are being made fools of

Geny mac I know its costly farming this year. But at least you don't have suckers. I met a man who changed to dairying a few years ago, he said a bad year with milking cows, is better than the best year with dry cattle. Anyway a lot of expense is brought on by ourselves. You don't have to be highly stocked if you don't want to be. Take it easy and draw the bps and glas and milk d few cows, let the contractor buy the machinery. The more you do the more you spend

jaymla627 · 02-07-2018 11:59PM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

jaymla627 wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts, have 1000 bales and 60 acres of pit in the yard be about 8 months feed if no grass in the diet , but I'm one of those high cost farmers feeding to much meal with low ebi cows who's doing the whole job wrong....
It's a tipping point this year for a lot of lads who have simply bred high solid/low volume cows that simply won't respond to feed like a good Holstein cow will, its the perfect system when grass is their but goes tits up when your get weather events like this year

A nasty post.
I cannot abide farmers who take pleasure and strive to massage their own insecurities through others misfortune

A clear illustration of growing up to be done[/q

Empathy is something I do lack to be fair, especially when lads can't step back take a look at their own system and question where they are going when a bad 9 month spell of weather literally puts them on their knees....
Have absolutely no sympathy for lads blowing about growing grass up over the ditches and been absolute rockstar farmers and like pointing it out to anyone that will listen, who now going forward if the weather doesn't revert back to a perceived norm can't feed their cows going into the autumn/winter, assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups is something i like to farm by, I could of assumed that I don't need to take a good bit of rented land and cut a massive amount of silage year in year out at a huge cost to the business in terms of monetary and extra workload placed on myself, but i do just for the security blanket I now have going forward into the rest of this year when it's badly needed...

charolais0153 · 03-07-2018 12:22AM

Panch18 wrote: »

All the risk, all the work and none of the benefits

Dairy farmers need to wake up, we are being made fools of

None of the benefits....christ almighty you're fickle ,ya you'd say something if price was on floor 22-23c a litre but prices are good and the outlook for prices are good.

straight · 03-07-2018 06:23AM

charolais0153 wrote: »

None of the benefits....christ almighty you're fickle ,ya you'd say something if price was on floor 22-23c a litre but prices are good and the outlook for prices are good.

Prices are a joke. Your supposed to be able to make a living working 39 hours a week not to mind all of the capital you have invested over generations.

Coolfresian · 03-07-2018 07:10AM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

A nasty post.
I cannot abide farmers who take pleasure and strive to massage their own insecurities through others misfortune

A clear illustration of growing up to be done

It's doesn't seem to me a nasty post. In fact it seems like a farmer who's system is working and is prepared for any challenges that comes weatherwise. If anything the late spring and drought conditions has exposed a weakness in the promoted way of dairying for many farms. Only 3 weeks ago during the grass growth spurt ppl were talking about needing more cows, and now their trying to source feed! It's a discussion forum here and it's good to see some farm systems are adapting to the weather challenges this year.

mahoney_j · 03-07-2018 08:01AM

Coolfresian wrote: »

It's doesn't seem to me a nasty post. In fact it seems like a farmer who's system is working and is prepared for any challenges that comes weatherwise. If anything the late spring and drought conditions has exposed a weakness in the promoted way of dairying for many farms. Only 3 weeks ago during the grass growth spurt ppl were talking about needing more cows, and now their trying to source feed! It's a discussion forum here and it's good to see some farm systems are adapting to the weather challenges this year.

Exactly as I saw it too when read

Timmaay · 03-07-2018 08:13AM

Glanbia importing alfalfa http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/glanbia-brings-in-alfalfa-to-assist-drought-struck-suppliers/ what would this be like for milkers?

GrasstoMilk · 03-07-2018 09:24AM

The biggest thing with this dry weather we're getting ATM is to try not let it affect your farm output over the coming years.
I've been told quite a few times 'oh get rid of cows' 'reduce stocking rate' etc. Those two things will be the very last resort here and the fact that it's just thrown out there with out even knowing your stocking rate is silly, We're not stocked high, stocked lower than last year infact and we made 5 months of silage last year (granted it was a great grass year)

We're not worried yet, there's still 6 months of the year left. If we plan it right we all could be grazing into December and even at silage into October!
There's plenty of options there for everyone to have a look at to help there own situation.
Worrying over something you have no control over is a waste of time

older by the day · 03-07-2018 09:40AM

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

The biggest thing with this dry weather we're getting ATM is to try not let it affect your farm output over the coming years.
I've been told quite a few times 'oh get rid of cows' 'reduce stocking rate' etc. Those two things will be the very last resort here and the fact that it's just thrown out there with out even knowing your stocking rate is silly, We're not stocked high, stocked lower than last year infact and we made 5 months of silage last year (granted it was a great grass year)

We're not worried yet, there's still 6 months of the year left. If we plan it right we all could be grazing into December and even at silage into October!
There's plenty of options there for everyone to have a look at to help there own situation.
Worrying over something you have no control over is a waste of time

The growing season is slipping away, it will be tough for most to build up a big bank of grass for Autumn not to mind silage in October. I'd say your one of those teagasc advisors or worse Mich creed. Feeding silage since September 17, 4 ft of snow outside the door in March and they taught there was no crisis

mahoney_j · 03-07-2018 09:40AM

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

The biggest thing with this dry weather we're getting ATM is to try not let it affect your farm output over the coming years.
I've been told quite a few times 'oh get rid of cows' 'reduce stocking rate' etc. Those two things will be the very last resort here and the fact that it's just thrown out there with out even knowing your stocking rate is silly, We're not stocked high, stocked lower than last year infact and we made 5 months of silage last year (granted it was a great grass year)

We're not worried yet, there's still 6 months of the year left. If we plan it right we all could be grazing into December and even at silage into October!
There's plenty of options there for everyone to have a look at to help there own situation.
Worrying over something you have no control over is a waste of time

Agree with lot of that but selling stock and reducing Sr would be smart move atm ,costing big money to feed stock atm and eating into silage stocks which u can’t really afford to do .reducing Sr would be smart move imo but hey as for grazing into December ,doubt it ,u want grass in February u can graze past mid November in reality .rest of year contains ifs buts and mabys action needs to happen now .no rain for at least 10 days even with rain it’ll be early August now before any normality will resume.thats reality

Mooooo · 03-07-2018 09:45AM

Saying what works for you is fine and indeed helpful, but calling out lads with a different system whom may be struggling now is pointless. Plenty lads here older than me, how many of ye can remember a weather spell like this? Or even have all three events we've had this year come in the same year? We are where we are and if lads change tack after this year all well and good but everyone is going to have a toughspell to get thru at some stage, it's a case of get thru it learn and move on. If anyone had all the answers we would all be doing it that way. It's outside the door, look after yerselves and do the best ye can

Coolfresian · 03-07-2018 09:57AM

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

The biggest thing with this dry weather we're getting ATM is to try not let it affect your farm output over the coming years.
I've been told quite a few times 'oh get rid of cows' 'reduce stocking rate' etc. Those two things will be the very last resort here and the fact that it's just thrown out there with out even knowing your stocking rate is silly, We're not stocked high, stocked lower than last year infact and we made 5 months of silage last year (granted it was a great grass year)

We're not worried yet, there's still 6 months of the year left. If we plan it right we all could be grazing into December and even at silage into October!
There's plenty of options there for everyone to have a look at to help there own situation.
Worrying over something you have no control over is a waste of time

I really hope that not too many farmers are relying on a plan of grazing into December and silage in October! If anything this year and last year should have done away with ideas like that.

kowtow · 03-07-2018 10:04AM

Was looking at the grass growth chart yesterday on twitter, don't have it to hand.

Anyone able to take a stab at the likely overall reduction in growth over the year? If it rains heavily in mid July would we still stand a chance of making it through the year with average growth or would the deficit be too large to make up? When - approximately - does the reverse of magic day usually fall?

charolais0153 · 03-07-2018 10:26AM

Mooooo wrote: »

Saying what works for you is fine and indeed helpful, but calling out lads with a different system whom may be struggling now is pointless. Plenty lads here older than me, how many of ye can remember a weather spell like this? Or even have all three events we've had this year come in the same year? We are where we are and if lads change tack after this year all well and good but everyone is going to have a toughspell to get thru at some stage, it's a case of get thru it learn and move on. If anyone had all the answers we would all be doing it that way. It's outside the door, look after yerselves and do the best ye can

3 events?

Dairy chit chat II

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