John Leslie Trial - Accused of touching woman's bum in nightclub

Lady Spangles · 21-06-2018 11:25AM

Conservatory wrote: »

Should we lock them all up?

Perhaps not, but it's about damn time we started to teach boys that that is NOT okay. They need to start keeping their hands to themselves unless they get explicit consent. Girls don't deserve to be mauled, quite frankly.

Outlaw Pete · 21-06-2018 11:25AM

Deleted User wrote: »

That guy's name was Mark Pearson. Unbelievable what he had to go through. Did the CPS ever apologise to him I wonder? Whoever in the CPS thought that this was worth a court case deserves to lose their job quite frankly.

There was a whole rake of cases where clear evidence of innocence was ignored because of what is said to have been new guidelines having come in instructing Police to believe claimants no matter what. In other words, don't 'investigate', just prosecute.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/26/rape-serious-sexual-assault-cases-reviewed-trials-collapse-cps/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/896348/police-rape-case-collapse-high-court-judge-officer-training-presumption-of-guilt

Lady Spangles · 21-06-2018 11:28AM

Olsky wrote: »

In my opinion the puritanism and sexual repression demanded by the #metoo movement has begun to exceed anything achieved by the catholic church at the height of their powers or the victorian puritans centuries ago.

I know, I know! All those uptight bitches who've been raped and sexually assaulted, how dare they ruin your fun.

It's absurd that few people are challenging your ridiculous assertion, too. Today's society is utterly incomparable to either Puritanism or the Victorian era. Basically, what you're whining about, is women standing up to you and not allowing you to have your way on a whim. Sorry, but sex is a privilege and not a right.

Canis Lupus · 21-06-2018 11:30AM

ash23 wrote: »

Mock all you want but you grabbing your girlfriends ass is not what we are talking about.
We're talking about a man in a club who is a stranger to this other person, putting his hand inside her trousers without any indication from her that she wanted this attention.

If you're trying to justify that kind of behaviour then I despair.

How do you know? She's already lied about 2 things. Why not the hat trick?

nullzero · 21-06-2018 11:30AM

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't think "someone who wanted it would have wanted it" is reasonable to apply to someone who didn't

A reasonable argument in isolation, however the details of the case (context) paint quite a different picture.

Canis Lupus · 21-06-2018 11:31AM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

Perhaps not, but it's about damn time we started to teach boys that that is NOT okay. They need to start keeping their hands to themselves unless they get explicit consent. Girls don't deserve to be mauled, quite frankly.

And women of course... Or do they not grope men in clubs?

johnnyskeleton · 21-06-2018 11:32AM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

the CCTV footage showed the dance with Mr Leslie ended “voluntarily” rather than with a friend’s intervention.[/B]

What's going on? She's not really sure if he did it and her story is contradicted by the CCTV footage but it still goes to trial? Why?

Just to clarify, the Defence QC suggested to her that that is what the CCTV shows and she disagreed with it. The newspapers aren't stating as a fact that that is what the CCTV shows. Sometimes CCTV is clear, other times, CCTV can be interpreted several different ways.

jimgoose · 21-06-2018 11:33AM

This is about someone putting their hand inside someone else's trousers in a nightclub and touching that person's bare arse, right? Well here is the news - you can't do that, and that sort of thing makes women feel scared and violated. And anyone who doesn't know that, should. A dog with a mallet rammed up his hole knows it.

nullzero · 21-06-2018 11:34AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

And women of course... Or do they not grope men in clubs?

Nah, that's perfectly fine.
Your girlfriends Mayes grabbing you by the crotch is good fun, the auld Wan in work who pinches your backside is only having a laugh.
This is a male problem and we're all guilty until proven innocent.

Bunny Colvin · 21-06-2018 11:36AM

That fact that she recognised him immediately tells a lot. If it was a normal guy that did this, it would have been forgotten about in a flash. But the fact that this guy is well known makes for an interesting story.

21-06-2018 11:39AM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

Perhaps not, but it's about damn time we started to teach boys that that is NOT okay. They need to start keeping their hands to themselves unless they get explicit consent. Girls don't deserve to be mauled, quite frankly.

Classes for both sexes.....?

https://myspiritdc.com/1492938/police-arrest-woman-accused-of-groping-man-at-d-c-gas-station/

Lady Spangles · 21-06-2018 11:40AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

And women of course... Or do they not grope men in clubs?

Of course. But, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, it's boys and men who have the greater sense of entitlement when it comes to groping and sexual assault. They're also far more likely to turn violent and abusive when rejected.

2smiggy · 21-06-2018 11:40AM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

That fact that she recognised him immediately tells a lot. If it was a normal guy that did this, it would have been forgotten about in a flash. But the fact that this guy is well known makes for an interesting story.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lady Spangles · 21-06-2018 11:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Classes for both sexes.....?

https://myspiritdc.com/1492938/police-arrest-woman-accused-of-groping-man-at-d-c-gas-station/

She was arrested, so the matter's being dealt with and not ignored. That's the key difference here, isn't it. The 'boys will be boys' attitude prevails.

optogirl · 21-06-2018 11:42AM

nullzero wrote: »

Nah, that's perfectly fine.
Your girlfriends Mayes grabbing you by the crotch is good fun, the auld Wan in work who pinches your backside is only having a laugh.
This is a male problem and we're all guilty until proven innocent.

Most people - male or female - know that grabbing anyone by the crotch is not on, Nor is pinching a colleagues bum - I wouldn't fuppin DREAM of doing either because it's a violation of that person no matter how much 'craic' you think you are having. Get the giant chip off your shoulder. If this stuff happens to you and you don't like it, call it out. Just like this woman is doing.

Bunny Colvin · 21-06-2018 11:44AM

2smiggy wrote: »

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Break me off some of dem dolla bills

nullzero · 21-06-2018 11:46AM

optogirl wrote: »

Most people - male or female - know that grabbing anyone by the crotch is not on, Nor is pinching a colleagues bum - I wouldn't fuppin DREAM of doing either because it's a violation of that person no matter how much 'craic' you think you are having. Get the giant chip off your shoulder. If this stuff happens to you and you don't like it, call it out. Just like this woman is doing.

Giant chip?
Get a grip, there are double standards at play between the genders and putting it in plain language isn't demonstrating a chip on someone's shoulder.
Some PEOPLE are grabby and need to knock off their behaviour because it isn't right, both men and women.

21-06-2018 11:47AM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

She was arrested, so the matter's being dealt with and not ignored. That's the key difference here, isn't it. The 'boys will be boys' attitude prevails.

So should both sexes be taught that its not okay?

Mokuba · 21-06-2018 11:51AM

Gotten to the point where you'd have to look at most of these cases and roll your eyes.

Women seem more desperate than ever to be a part of the victim culture. So much so that anything that wasn't 100 percent mind-blowing for her is now assault or rape.

A natural consequence of a generation that lives their lives through instagram likes, where validation and attention is the currency.

Attention seeking, validation seeking rubbish.

optogirl · 21-06-2018 11:52AM

nullzero wrote: »

Giant chip?
Get a grip, there are double standards at play between the genders and putting it in plain language isn't demonstrating a chip on someone's shoulder.
Some PEOPLE are grabby and need to knock off their behaviour because it isn't right, both men and women.

I totally agree with you. No excuse for groping. You said that when women do it, it's viewed as perfectly fine. It isn't.

facehugger99 · 21-06-2018 11:52AM

jimgoose wrote: »

This is about someone putting their hand inside someone else's trousers in a nightclub and touching that person's bare arse, right? Well here is the news - you can't do that, and that sort of thing makes women feel scared and violated. And anyone who doesn't know that, should. A dog with a mallet rammed up his hole knows it.

Wait, what?

Cienciano · 21-06-2018 11:52AM

ash23 wrote: »

She was talking to him. Then she agreed to dance with him. Then he put his hands inside of her trousers. Whether she danced with him for ten seconds or ten minutes, it's a bit much to go from dancing to hand down trousers without any preamble.

ash23 wrote: »

That's not an answer. How do we deal with it if not through the courts? Ignore it?
On the spot fine? Or the person who was touched when they didn't want to be just chalks it up to something acceptable?

sbsquarepants wrote: »

John Leslie (John fúcking Leslie of all people!) shoves his hand down a strangers trousers and your issue is with the metoo movement?

Has to be a wind up!

But sure I'll bite anyway. Em, no Olsky, it's just not acceptable to go shoving your hands wherever you feel like. John Leslie is a naughty boy.
I've noticed a lot of women are quite choosy about whose hand's they will and will not allow down their trousers, probably best to make sure you're on the list first before just sliding them on in there. Save yourself an awkward faux pas.

Out of interest, suppose he 100% did put his hand down her waistband while dancing with her. What do you think the punishment for should be?

jimgoose · 21-06-2018 11:55AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Wait, what?

No-one who hasn't had a brainectomy should need to be told that putting your hand inside someone's clothes and touching them like that is The Wrong Thing(TM). Capiche?

ohnonotgmail · 21-06-2018 11:56AM

Cienciano wrote: »

Out of interest, suppose he 100% did put his hand down her waistband while dancing with her. What do you think the punishment for should be?

What is the punishment for sexual assault these days?

nullzero · 21-06-2018 11:59AM

optogirl wrote: »

I totally agree with you. No excuse for groping. You said that when women do it, it's viewed as perfectly fine. It isn't.

It's viewed as less damaging for a man to be groped by a woman than the other way around, even though it's just as immoral.

optogirl · 21-06-2018 12:01PM

nullzero wrote: »

It's viewed as less damaging for a man to be groped by a woman than the other way around, even though it's just as immoral.

I guess it might be to do with the inherent threat associated with man-on-woman groping but if that is your experience than that's crap - I find it manky whichever way it goes and would absolutely call it out.

retro:electro · 21-06-2018 12:06PM

Hmm. My irreverent 2c worth. It sounds like he possibly misread some signals, took a chance and acted a bit previous. I would not consider this sexual harassment had it happened to me, however, she is entitled to report it if she feels he crossed a line. It’s also important to acknowledge that the cctv of events clash with her own version of what happened when she says her friend took her away, so her version of events seem to be inconsistent with the truth, to say the least.
Nobody is entitled to touch any part of you, and had he followed her and persisted, I would be in full agreement that he is a creepy weirdo. Tbh I can’t even believe this made it to trial. Daft.

21-06-2018 12:08PM

Lady Spangles wrote:

I know, I know! All those uptight bitches who've been raped and sexually assaulted, how dare they ruin your fun.

I think calling this sexual assault and conflating it with actual rape is dangerous and frankly insulting to victims.

But please.... continue to paint people who view this as a waste of time as rape apologists.

Permabear · 21-06-2018 12:10PM

This post has been deleted.

Wibbs · 21-06-2018 12:11PM

ash23 wrote: »

It's not just a matter of touching someones bare arse or breast. It's a violation and for some people that can hit hard and mocking that or making accusations that a woman is playing up for social media and wanting to be a victim is a terrible comment.

What gets me about this whole thing is - and you've done it again in this post - is conflating someone who can't even remember if a man touched her that way or not and some being actually groped or getting molested. Examples are to be seen on the regular with the #MeToo types too. One woman struggles to post her harrowing experience of being raped and a few tweets later another woman is "violated" because someone looked at her breasts on the bus. The notion of severity or sliding scale seems to be a difficult concept for many.

John Leslie Trial - Accused of touching woman's bum in nightclub

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